Earths Expansion and Declining Seas

AnnaG

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The eath is just breathing. Just think of the belch if the greenies get their way & pump CO2 underground.
I still like my "theory" best. That the Earth's gravity is losing oomph and the water is evaporating into space. It's scientifically as valid a "theory " as what beaver proposes. :D
 

AnnaG

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Actually if we can't quite cut back 80% of our emissions by reducing them, trapping carbon may be how we can get to 80% reduction in atmospheric emission of carbon.
Then we just need to figure out what to do with it after we bottle it. :D
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Actually if we can't quite cut back 80% of our emissions by reducing them, trapping carbon may be how we can get to 80% reduction in atmospheric emission of carbon.
Then we just need to figure out what to do with it after we bottle it. :D
Feed algae. Which species of algae, not sure. If I was, I wouldn't be working for someone else!
 

Tonington

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If the earth doesn't breathe where does naturally carbonated water such as "Perrier" come from?
I never said the earth doesn't "breathe". I was replying to your assertion that what we are seeing is the earth breathing. It is not just breathing.
 

MHz

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Yeah. I mentioned the differences in thermal expansion, rates, densities, etc. in another thread.
He's been reading too much o The Charlie Farquharson Guide to Physics. lol
What is the area of expansion you get when you heat up the mantle in a few steps?
 

Tonington

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What is the area of expansion you get when you heat up the mantle in a few steps?
How much has the mantle warmed by? You need to know the change in temperature to figure out the amount of expansion (which is measured in volume, not area.)
 

AnnaG

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what is the area of expansion you get when you heat up the mantle in a few steps?
952,
Seriously I didn't know the mantle warmed in steps. I thought it would be a steady gradient sort of climb.

Probably it's in direct relation to the amount of mantle cooled on the other side....
Actually the warmth is increasing so it wouldn't be a direct proportion.
 

MHz

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How much has the mantle warmed by? You need to know the change in temperature to figure out the amount of expansion (which is measured in volume, not area.)
If the mantle is viewed as being a ball, expansion creates a bigger ball which has a surface area that can be calculated. The Atlantic and pacific rifts are expanding at about the rate a fingernail grow, here are some maps that have the ages for the Oceanic crust going back about 180 million years. Does that help?
 

AnnaG

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If the mantle is viewed as being a ball, expansion creates a bigger ball which has a surface area that can be calculated. The Atlantic and pacific rifts are expanding at about the rate a fingernail grow, here are some maps that have the ages for the Oceanic crust going back about 180 million years. Does that help?
Where's the maps? They must be really small because I am wearing my cheaters and can't see them even then.
 

Tonington

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If the mantle is viewed as being a ball, expansion creates a bigger ball which has a surface area that can be calculated. The Atlantic and pacific rifts are expanding at about the rate a fingernail grow, here are some maps that have the ages for the Oceanic crust going back about 180 million years. Does that help?
I'm curious why you are wanting to know the change in surface area? Thermal expansion is in 3 dimensions. Surface area is 2 dimensions. Sea level change is in 1 dimension.

Anyways, like I said, you need to have a delta T to determine the expansion.
 

MHz

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I'm curious why you are wanting to know the change in surface area? Thermal expansion is in 3 dimensions. Surface area is 2 dimensions. Sea level change is in 1 dimension.

Anyways, like I said, you need to have a delta T to determine the expansion.
Say the crust is on average 25miles thick. That would make for a slightly different surface area for the outside over the inside of the crust. The diameter would be 50 miles less overall. I'm just curious as to how much the mantle would have to heat up so it was 50 miles longer in the diameter dimension and how much would that 50 miles add to the area of the outer crust. Youtube has several short vid on the theory behind the expanding earth theory. The islands were mentioned briefly but they never really explore the concept of how water reacted to their theory. It is basically receding from the coast-lines (or at least it should be) simply because the Oceans are deeper where the rifts are. I will warn you it is not a widely accepted theory, but them massive floods creating the scablands was also not accepted at first, last i heard every deep river valley is now thought to be carved by large masses of water in what could have been frequent floods rahter than the trickle doing the work over long periods.

Taken to the extreme, closing the expansion joints, as done in the available animation, would push the water up on the land, go far enough back and that might explain the shallow seas of North America as well as in other places.
 

Tonington

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Right, but we're talking about sea level change. If you think of the mantle as a ball, and the ocean and crustal plates are on top of it, when the ball expands, both ocean and crust rises. In order for this to explain sea level rise, now you have to show that the ball (mantle) isn't expanding equally.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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lmao That's hilarious. Then all our scientific laws are nonsense along with all the constants (like Avogadro's Number) and you are just a puff of smoke that people can walk through.
Avogadro has a number? Bastard.
 

AnnaG

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Right, but we're talking about sea level change. If you think of the mantle as a ball, and the ocean and crustal plates are on top of it, when the ball expands, both ocean and crust rises. In order for this to explain sea level rise, now you have to show that the ball (mantle) isn't expanding equally.
I can see that the expansion would not be uniform; different levels of friction between tectonic plates, southern hemisphere cooling as the northern hemisphere warms, vice versa, and all that. Besides Antarctica having a larger load resting on it than the Arctic lands. Actually the Atlantic sea level is about 8" higher than the Pacific, too. That's a bit of a load difference, too.

avogadro has a number? Bastard.
Yup. It's a big number, too.
6.0221415 × 10 ^ 23
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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I can see that the expansion would not be uniform; different levels of friction between tectonic plates, southern hemisphere cooling as the northern hemisphere warms, vice versa, and all that. Besides Antarctica having a larger load resting on it than the Arctic lands. Actually the Atlantic sea level is about 8" higher than the Pacific, too. That's a bit of a load difference, too.

Yup. It's a big number, too.
6.0221415 × 10 ^ 23
Lets get it back.

Look what happened when Bill Gates got all the 0's and 1's.
 

MHz

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Right, but we're talking about sea level change. If you think of the mantle as a ball, and the ocean and crustal plates are on top of it, when the ball expands, both ocean and crust rises. In order for this to explain sea level rise, now you have to show that the ball (mantle) isn't expanding equally.
It's a liquid so pressures are somewhat equal already. The mantle also has convection currents, that is related to heat, the core must be hotter than the area just under the crust because there are rising currents. odds are those zones also put more pressure on the crust and that is why certain parts are expanding.

I agree that the crust has gotten thicker over time and it would ride higher but nobody would notice as the atmosphere also rises, sideways motion would be the most noticeable change and that means wider Oceans in our case as the 'new' land mass is under water and the only gain in area of dry land would be from a receding sea.