Earths Expansion and Declining Seas

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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What doesn't impress me is your understanding of elementary physics and your tendency to make dogmatic pronouncements that are simply not true. If you actually work through the physics of the electric sun, modeling it either as a resistor or a capacitor (and I've given you links in the past to a guy who does so), you'll find that it predicts significant effects that are not observed. The simple observable facts are not consistent with an electric sun.

Should I be impressed by your lack of impression about my understanding of elementary physics, a person who understands elementary physics less than the accused, me. It's modeled most often as a simple anode, of course there are many as yet undiscovered complications. A link war will and has never sufficed to end this contest of science over religion Reverend Sinister. I expect you to maintain your dogmatic stance even as the lions tear you to pieces in the collosium of science. You should read about the impossibility of the nuclear model, even if only to greater familiarize yourself with the fusion gospel. Someday a position for cardinal will open, as it always does. Go with god my errant child.:lol:
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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In my opinion my opinion is far less exotic than yours on this topic. How in hell can we have local volumn changes in the oceans?

Is that what I said? I'm pretty sure I said local sea level changes. So, if the land mass is lifting or subsiding....the volume of the ocean remains the same...you should be able to fill in the holes now I hope. That would give you local sea level change, even though the volume of the ocean didn't change. Of course what's happening now is the volume is changing. Yearly. :D

Does the thermal efficiency of snow/ice contribute to the factors that are involved in the rate at which the earth can shed internal heat? Is it slower/faster at the height of the various ice-ages?

Latent heat certainly contributes to Earth's radiative balance. Evaporating and melting water involves lots of energy.
 

AnnaG

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Is that what I said? I'm pretty sure I said local sea level changes. So, if the land mass is lifting or subsiding....the volume of the ocean remains the same...you should be able to fill in the holes now I hope. That would give you local sea level change, even though the volume of the ocean didn't change. Of course what's happening now is the volume is changing. Yearly. :D
lol In some places it changes noticeably within 24 hours:

[SIZE=+3]Tidal Levels at White Rock, British Columbia[/SIZE]
 

MHz

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Mar 16, 2007
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Well then pressures are not all that equal if there are currents.
That true, when rising mantle meets the crust there is more upward pressure than there is where a downward flow begins. The up places are the spreading and down drafts would have to be someplace between. Perhaps that 'suction' is what lowered Eastern Canada's mountain ranges more than extra weathering because they are much older than the Rockies. The creation of Hudson's Bay (one rock that could liquidize the whole depth of the crust) was the event that caused their creation. The suction is only strong enough to put a 'dip' in the crust. At the current rate water would be flowing from the Arctic to Mexico through Ontario if it was not for the rise in elevation (a very small amount) and the continued spreading of rifts that are now underwater. The more they spread the more water they can hold. so there would be no new shallow sea as even the areas in the world at the depth of the Grand Banks would be dry land and the total distance across the Atlantic would be much wider, as would the Pacific and a few other places.
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So Earth's velocity at the equator should be quite a bit faster than it used to be because as it grows, centrifugal force makes the planet flatter at the poles and widens the diameter at the equator. Actually, the velocity goes up and down.
Without the wobble it would be more than it is because the 'center' keeps changing slightly.

It (the relationship between rotation of crust and core) could also be quite different at the crust than it is at the core when the impact of the moon is considered. Before the impact a nice even spin. (balanced spinning top) with no wobble. The impact introduced the wobble we now have. From the impact til now an till the far future the wobble is changing. The influence of that change is out molten iron core. It remained close to the original balanced spin and the crust when for a wild ride. Slowly the core is stabilizing that wobble back to pre-strike conditions. Doing that creates friction and that creates heat and that creates expansion.

Oh I agree. I was just saying that Earth's parts do not move uniformly. :)
Creating friction and that is the heats source that drives an expanding crust, when that expansion stops shrinking happens and we end up looking like a dried round plum.

On a googolian scale that's below average.
If you are so smart why did you not publish their name the correct way? Googolian
I was also infomed that in some areas of 'talent' I am down to a single digit IQ. Those 'talents' I will keep to myself except for the typing one.

Latent heat certainly contributes to Earth's radiative balance. Evaporating and melting water involves lots of energy.
That would be mostly solar would it not?
Lots of ice traps a little extra heat and that causes a slight pressure build up and volcanoes start popping off. all that ash lands on the white ice making it dark which allows it to attract solar heat, During an ice age there sbouldn't be many clouds to stop the sun from being very bright in the sky.
 

AnnaG

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That true, when rising mantle meets the crust there is more upward pressure than there is where a downward flow begins. The up places are the spreading and down drafts would have to be someplace between. Perhaps that 'suction' is what lowered Eastern Canada's mountain ranges more than extra weathering because they are much older than the Rockies. The creation of Hudson's Bay (one rock that could liquidize the whole depth of the crust) was the event that caused their creation. The suction is only strong enough to put a 'dip' in the crust. At the current rate water would be flowing from the Arctic to Mexico through Ontario if it was not for the rise in elevation (a very small amount) and the continued spreading of rifts that are now underwater. The more they spread the more water they can hold. so there would be no new shallow sea as even the areas in the world at the depth of the Grand Banks would be dry land and the total distance across the Atlantic would be much wider, as would the Pacific and a few other places.
So then why did you say that pressures are somewhat equal? Make up your mind. Either the pressures are almost equal or they aren't.
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Without the wobble it would be more than it is because the 'center' keeps changing slightly.

It (the relationship between rotation of crust and core) could also be quite different at the crust than it is at the core when the impact of the moon is considered. Before the impact a nice even spin. (balanced spinning top) with no wobble. The impact introduced the wobble we now have. From the impact til now an till the far future the wobble is changing. The influence of that change is out molten iron core. It remained close to the original balanced spin and the crust when for a wild ride. Slowly the core is stabilizing that wobble back to pre-strike conditions. Doing that creates friction and that creates heat and that creates expansion.
WTF are you babbling about and what does it have to do with what I said?


Creating friction and that is the heats source that drives an expanding crust, when that expansion stops shrinking happens and we end up looking like a dried round plum.
Ah so Earth stays nice and cozy because of tectonic friction. :roll:


If you are so smart why did you not publish their name the correct way? Googolian
Their name? Whose name? WTF are you babbling about?


That would be mostly solar would it not?
Lots of ice traps a little extra heat and that causes a slight pressure build up and volcanoes start popping off. all that ash lands on the white ice making it dark which allows it to attract solar heat, During an ice age there sbouldn't be many clouds to stop the sun from being very bright in the sky.
Ice traps heat? That's a new one on me.:roll: I always kind of thought it reflected heat.

Oh, I think I see what your problem is. You were thinking "Google". FYI, a googol is 1X10^100, not a internet search engine.
 

MHz

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So then why did you say that pressures are somewhat equal? Make up your mind. Either the pressures are almost equal or they aren't.WTF are you babbling about and what does it have to do with what I said?
On a global scale they are, on average. Take finer measurements across Canada where both coasts have magma under them that is flowing towards towards each other, by the time they 'collide' they are cool enough that they are also flowing back towards the core.

Ah so Earth stays nice and cozy because of tectonic friction. :roll:
The heat is created in the molten mantle because it is the part that is acting like a brake-pad.
No the sun takes care of the our climate, the mantle's heat is related to the size of the ball the climate is on. The rock in South African diamond mines is a lot warmer in the deepest shafts than it is near the surface. That would be heat radiated from the mantle, it wouldn't stop it's journey a few miles from the surface. With a ice cap a few miles thick over that same mine would it be hotter or cooler at the very bottom and would the rocks stay hotter longer the closer you got to being at the surface.

Ice traps heat? That's a new one on me.:roll: I always kind of thought it reflected heat.
I meant like a early snow in the forest will stop frost, without the cover frost freezes the ground much easier. That is called insulation. If it stops the frost then it should inhibit the radiated heat from escaping as fast. The same insulation works for both.

Oh, I think I see what your problem is. You were thinking "Google". FYI, a googol is 1X10^100, not a internet search engine.
Now you can see why my IQ got down-graded. lol
 
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AnnaG

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On a global scale they are, on average. Take finer measurements across Canada where both coasts have magma under them that is flowing towards towards each other, by the time they 'collide' they are cool enough that they are also flowing back towards the core.
:roll: Yeah there is an average. So what? What are the extremes that deviate from that average? 1 kiloPascal here and 9 billion kP over there?


The heat is created in the molten mantle because it is the part that is acting like a brake-pad.
No the sun takes care of the our climate, the mantle's heat is related to the size of the ball the climate is on. The rock in South African diamond mines is a lot warmer in the deepest shafts than it is near the surface. That would be heat radiated from the mantle, it wouldn't stop it's journey a few miles from the surface. With a ice cap a few miles thick over that same mine would it be hotter or cooler at the very bottom and would the rocks stay hotter longer the closer you got to being at the surface.
Then the oceans should be warmer at the floors than at the surface.


I meant like a early snow in the forest will stop frost, without the cover frost freezes the ground much easier. That is called insulation. If it stops the frost then it should inhibit the radiated heat from escaping as fast. The same insulation works for both.
So the forest is made of ice and 5that is why it traps the heat at the forest floor?
 

MHz

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:roll: Yeah there is an average. So what? What are the extremes that deviate from that average? 1 kiloPascal here and 9 billion kP over there?
If it can put a mile deep bend in a 25 mile thick piece of granite, it is not a small force, just not enough to break the crust, at the moment anyway.

Then the oceans should be warmer at the floors than at the surface.
Maybe water transfers heat too quickly or can't hold it long enough. Those black smokers seem to be pumping heat our of the crust and they aren't miles under the oceanic crust.

So the forest is made of ice and that is why it traps the heat at the forest floor?
Not quite, Eskimos use drift snow to build their houses because they need a cold house because they all have very warm coats.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Is there going to be a bright flash when we cross through the 'center' in Dec of 2012?
There is no alignment.

If you want to read something really cool read Earth Under Fire by Dr. La Violette He has a very plausible theory that our galactic core went Seyfert 16,000 to 12,000 years ago.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Oct 1, 2004
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If you want to read something really cool read Earth Under Fire by Dr. La Violette.
Everything I can find out about him, particularly at his own web site, strongly suggests he's just another delusional quack of the sort the Beave likes to cite. Any time anyone starts talking about the laws of thermodynamics being wrong my baloney detector goes into the red.
 

AnnaG

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If it can put a mile deep bend in a 25 mile thick piece of granite, it is not a small force, just not enough to break the crust, at the moment anyway.
So you are telling me that because it can break through the crust in some places and not others, and there is turbulence, the liquid rock is equally pressured everywhere? Sorry, but as soon as you have cooler parts and warmer parts of something causing turbulence, you have pressure differentials. If you boil water in a pot without a crust (lid) on top the pressure in the pot is pretty much the same as the environmental pressure. Put a crust (lid) on it and keep it there, the pressure will build.

Maybe water transfers heat too quickly or can't hold it long enough. Those black smokers seem to be pumping heat our of the crust and they aren't miles under the oceanic crust.
Maybe? lol It gets denser as it nears the bottom and the salt also makes it denser. The denser water gets the colder it gets.


Not quite, Eskimos use drift snow to build their houses because they need a cold house because they all have very warm coats.
Wrong. They don't use drift snow. They use the old snow underneath the drift snow because it is packed and less likely to crumble.
 

MHz

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There is no alignment.
It's disk shaped, it has and edge-on position

So you are telling me that because it can break through the crust in some places and not others, and there is turbulence, the liquid rock is equally pressured everywhere? Sorry, but as soon as you have cooler parts and warmer parts of something causing turbulence, you have pressure differentials. If you boil water in a pot without a crust (lid) on top the pressure in the pot is pretty much the same as the environmental pressure. Put a crust (lid) on it and keep it there, the pressure will build.
Look at a vid of a pool of magma at the bottom of some volcano that is just on 'simmer', they show convection currents quire well. Magma should be doing the same sorts of flow pattern under the solid crust. Subduction of the crust would be impossible where there is an upflow. even where the currents start descending there is still enough upward force to support 24 miles of crust rather than the 25 miles over the up-flow. Magma vaies in temperature, by 1,000 deg just at the up and down flow locations. When it rises from the core it is closer to the 7000 deg that the core is rather than the temp when it is barely a liquid still.
Say you have a very bid pot of portage on a high heat, it bubbles similar to water lots of gas is escaping. The whole mixture is basically the same temperature at the surface, at the bottom it is hotter because it is closer to the heat source.

Maybe? lol It gets denser as it nears the bottom and the salt also makes it denser. The denser water gets the colder it gets.
I agree that is is the coldest at the deepest parts. Are you saying the rocks at the underwater rift do not transfer heat from the mantle?

Wrong. They don't use drift snow. They use the old snow underneath the drift snow because it is packed and less likely to crumble.
Better turn in your fake northern Manitoba passport.
YouTube - How to build an igloo - A Boy Among Polar Bears - BBC

No. That 2012 business is crap.
We still cross that center line even with out the unexpected flash. I'm not trying to promote any prophecy nor did I back on the century change thing was the hot topic.

Maybe it just means their calender goes through a date change, like our years do.
 

AnnaG

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It's disk shaped, it has and edge-on position


Look at a vid of a pool of magma at the bottom of some volcano that is just on 'simmer', they show convection currents quire well. Magma should be doing the same sorts of flow pattern under the solid crust. Subduction of the crust would be impossible where there is an upflow. even where the currents start descending there is still enough upward force to support 24 miles of crust rather than the 25 miles over the up-flow. Magma vaies in temperature, by 1,000 deg just at the up and down flow locations. When it rises from the core it is closer to the 7000 deg that the core is rather than the temp when it is barely a liquid still.
Say you have a very bid pot of portage on a high heat, it bubbles similar to water lots of gas is escaping. The whole mixture is basically the same temperature at the surface, at the bottom it is hotter because it is closer to the heat source.
So you have 1000° liquid rock and at another spot you have 7000° liquid rock but they are both under the same pressure? roflmao


I agree that is is the coldest at the deepest parts. Are you saying the rocks at the underwater rift do not transfer heat from the mantle?
Nope. You initially said something like the closer you get to the core of the planet the hotter it gets. So I asked why oceans get colder as they get closer to the core. Having a hard time keeping up with the conversation?



Better turn in your fake northern Manitoba passport.
YouTube - How to build an igloo - A Boy Among Polar Bears - BBC
I don't care what the BBC's opinion is. You don't use snow that's been flying around (drift snow). In case you've never encountered snow before, unless it is compacted, the colder it gets the runnier it gets (skiers call it powder). You have to find more rigid, compacted snow to build with.
BTW, I don't have a fake northern Manitoba passport. I don't even have a northern Manitoba passport. I don't even have a Manitoba passport. :roll:

Anyway, this is off-topic.

This isn't

RealClimate: Sea level in the Arctic
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Everything I can find out about him, particularly at his own web site, strongly suggests he's just another delusional quack of the sort the Beave likes to cite. Any time anyone starts talking about the laws of thermodynamics being wrong my baloney detector goes into the red.
So what did ancient man see in the sky and paint on rocks from one end of the globe to the other? They all saw same the samething at the same time. That's not delusion that is very telling. They know and depicted what they saw and going by today's knowledge they saw our galaxy go haywire and they saw what it did to our solar system.

It's well documented.
 

AnnaG

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So what did ancient man see in the sky and paint on rocks from one end of the globe to the other? They all saw same the samething at the same time. That's not delusion that very telling.
I saw a few painting of unicorns from various parts of the world. Does that mean unicorns existed as a subspecies of equines?