That could be whoever claimed they were a prophet. David Berkowitz claimed to be given instructions by a devil inhabiting his neighbor's dog. He was a prophet (on the bad side). If I claimed divine inspiration and pulled off a David Copperfield stunt, people would call me a prophet. Or if you claimed divine inspiration and brought people back to life (faith healing), people would call you a prophet.
Cheating the prophet
- Thread starter eanassir
- Start date
First:
God lays the veil on the sight, impairment in the hearing and a covering on the hearts of "wrong-doers" lest they should realize the evident truth of the Quran; because He dislikes the "wrong-doer" and so misguides him in order he will come infidel and go to Hell without judgment.
Therefore, whatever the apostles speak with people, the "wrong-doer" will not be guided: in spite of the miracles and proofs of Moses (who could not guide Pharaoh), Jesus (who could not guide a large number of Jews) or Mohammed (who could not guide his uncle Abu-lahab) or Abraham (who could not guide his father Tareh.)
The apostle conveys the message to people, so that on Judgment Day they will not say : no apostle came to us; if only an apostle had come to us, we would have been guided and become righteous.
Therefore, it will be said to them: many apostles came to you, but you denied, mocked and transgressed on them, and kept up on your idolatry, enthusiasm and associating others with God.
Second:
You claim that Mohammed quoted the stories from the Torah; to this there are some replies:
1- The Torah was in Hebrew, and Mohammed did not know Hebrew, neither did he even know the reading and writing of Arabic.
2- The Torah was in Hebrew, and then hundreds of years later, it was translated.
(And We know well that they say: "Only a man teaches him."
The language of [the Torah] to which they wickedly point is foreign [: Hebrew}, while this [Quran] is Arabic pure and clear.)
The above between brackets is the interpretation by the late Mohammed-Ali Hassan of the Quran 16: 103
وَلَقَدْ نَعْلَمُ أَنَّهُمْ يَقُولُونَ إِنَّمَا يُعَلِّمُهُ بَشَرٌ لِّسَانُ الَّذِي يُلْحِدُونَ إِلَيْهِ أَعْجَمِيٌّ وَهَذَا لِسَانٌ عَرَبِيٌّ مُّبِينٌ
What a great difference between these men and Mohammed!
Mohammed invited people to God alone without associate.
And he was on a clear evidence and insight from his Lord.
And he brought the Quran a guidance and light to all humanity.
And the one that follows Mohammed in his devotion to God alone will be successful and will prosper in the afterlife, while the others that you mentioned are only some silly stories.
([Do you, people, unbelieve Mohammed] who relies on a clear evidence from his Lord!?
And [the Mahdi as] a witness [to his prophethood] out of his [nation] will follow after him;
and [another witness was] before him: the book of Moses was a guide and a mercy [to the Children of Israel];
such [of the people of the Bible will] believe therein [: in the Quran and other heavenly scriptures, in the future at the time of the Mahdi: the Paraclite];
but whosoever of the [Meccans and their] confederates unbelieves in the [Quran], the Fire will [in the afterlife] be His appointed [abode.]
So be not in doubt [O Mohammed about the Quran being revealed to you];
for the [Quran] is the truth from your Lord,
but most of people believe not [because of their ignorance of the truth and their stubbornness.])
The above between brackets is the interpretation by the late Mohammed-Ali Hassan of the Quran 11: 17
And [the Mahdi as] a witness [to his prophethood] out of his [nation] will follow after him;
and [another witness was] before him: the book of Moses was a guide and a mercy [to the Children of Israel];
such [of the people of the Bible will] believe therein [: in the Quran and other heavenly scriptures, in the future at the time of the Mahdi: the Paraclite];
but whosoever of the [Meccans and their] confederates unbelieves in the [Quran], the Fire will [in the afterlife] be His appointed [abode.]
So be not in doubt [O Mohammed about the Quran being revealed to you];
for the [Quran] is the truth from your Lord,
but most of people believe not [because of their ignorance of the truth and their stubbornness.])
The above between brackets is the interpretation by the late Mohammed-Ali Hassan of the Quran 11: 17
أَفَمَن كَانَ عَلَى بَيِّنَةٍ مِّن رَّبِّهِ وَيَتْلُوهُ شَاهِدٌ مِّنْهُ وَمِن قَبْلِهِ كِتَابُ مُوسَى إَمَامًا وَرَحْمَةً أُوْلَئِكَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِهِ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِهِ مِنَ الأَحْزَابِ فَالنَّارُ مَوْعِدُهُ فَلاَ تَكُ فِي مِرْيَةٍ مِّنْهُ إِنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّكَ وَلَكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ
Again, that is only your opinion, isn't it (that Koran is the word of God)? To me, Koran is just a book written more than a thousand years ago, it reflects the hatreds and prejudices that were prevalent at that time. Same with Sharia.
Excuse me, but your statement, "Mohammed invited people to God alone without associate" is puzzling.
the first pillar of Islam is the Shahadah - "There is no other God but Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger." In other words, I cannot accept the monotheistic Islam, without accepting that Muhammad is his one and only prophet, or messenger. quite frankly, that is no different than the Christians declaring that one cannot follow god unless they accept Jesus as his only begotten son.Your 'prophet' is as much an 'associate' as Jesus is.
sorry Eanassir, the Almighty didn't make mistakes. It gave me a brain that lets me figure out what are the right and wrong things to do. I don't need a 'prophet' to tell me. and if that deity only accepts me if I follow his/her middle man? sorry - thats just sad.I do believe that the Almighty will indeed judge me - but my judgement will be based on important things, like how I behaved and how I treated my fellow human beings. Not something as superficial as 'what prophet I did or did not believe in'.
So according to your statement, "God lays the veil on the sight, impairment in the hearing and a covering on the hearts of "wrong-doers" lest they should realize the evident truth of the Quran; because He dislikes the "wrong-doer" and so misguides him in order he will come infidel and go to Hell without judgment." God hates me because i actually used the brain that he gave me. I am an infidel - a 'wrong-doer' - not because i don't follow what god has shown me (ie - do not murder, do not cheat, do not lie), but because I don't believe a man who claims to be the ultimate prophet - is just that.
Sorry Einassir - there is nothing in the Q'ran, nothing in the Hadith, that SHOW me that he is the one. All your telling me that I'll be smote if I don't believe is useless.
I read what your prophet says - and he says nothing that haven't already been said in the Torah. I don't care if you believe that because a lot of Jews haven't lived a proper life, what was written is invalid. I could say the same of your religion.
Too often I see Muslim couples walking around where she is wearing a manteau that the president of Iran would approve of, and hijab, while the man is wearing trendy clothing - oh yes - he's not got his shorts above his knees, but they are all the fashion, and his hair is spiked and bleached. He might not be wearing gold, but his tee-shirt sports the latest most fashionable designer. The prophet enjoined both genders to dress modestly, but it seems that the only ones that are forced to follow the letter of the law are women. The men? A blind eye is turned.
So tell me - why would I follow a group that shows me by example that there is one rule for men and a harsher rule for women?
By the way, you still haven't explained to me why it was ok for your faith to disrespect 'the people of the book' by taking over their sacred sites and converting them to mosques (remember - the Holy Temple in Jerusalem and the Hagia Sophia???)Believe me - I'm not trying to antagonize you - I really want to know if you can really justify your religion's desecration of another's holiest places. and if you can, can you understand those same faiths not really taking your concerns seriously. No sarcasm, all I want, is something from you that isn't pulled from an online resource. All I want to hear are your own words.
The believer has to admit that Mohammed is God's apostle or messenger; and that he is not His only messenger; the believer has to admit that God sent a large number of messengers or apostles and the last one of the prophets (coming from
Abraham's progeny) was Mohammed.
And the believer has to obey Mohammed because he is the messenger or apostle of God: Mohammed like the rest of the apostles conveyed the message of God; therefore, it is meaningless that a believer admits that Mohammed is God's apostle then he disobeys this apostle or works according to his own opinion rather than God's instructions.
And the believer has to admit that Mohammed is the servant and apostle of God; and that Mohammed is a human being like all other men, has the same needs and he cannot avert any harm from himself and from others, and he cannot bring an advantage to himself or to others, unless God Himself has such control of giving the advantage and averting the harm.
(Say [O Mohammed, to them]: "I cannot bring any profit, nor avert any hurt from myself, but only that which God wills.
Had I knowledge of the forefuture, I should have had abundance of wealth, and adversity would not have touched me.
I am only a warner [against idolatry], and a bearer of good tidings [of Paradise] to a people believing.)
The above between brackets is the interpretation by the late Mohammed-Ali Hassan of the Quran 7: 188
قُل لاَّ أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي نَفْعًا وَلاَ ضَرًّا إِلاَّ مَا شَاء اللّهُ وَلَوْ كُنتُ أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ لاَسْتَكْثَرْتُ مِنَ الْخَيْرِ وَمَا مَسَّنِيَ السُّوءُ إِنْ أَنَاْ إِلاَّ نَذِيرٌ وَبَشِيرٌ لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ
Moreover, God said in the Quran 72: 21-23
قُلْ إِنِّي لَا أَمْلِكُ لَكُمْ ضَرًّا وَلَا رَشَدًا ..الخ
The explanation:
(Say: "I cannot cause evil for you [as have you demanded for the punishment], nor [can I] make you accept the right guidance [as have I asked of God for you.]"
(Say: "I cannot cause evil for you [as have you demanded for the punishment], nor [can I] make you accept the right guidance [as have I asked of God for you.]"
Say: "None shall defend me against God [if I disobey Him for your sake],
nor can I find [any shelter eventhough] a grave to hide me from Him."
nor can I find [any shelter eventhough] a grave to hide me from Him."
"Except that I [can] deliver what I receive from God and His messages.
And whoso rebels against God and His messenger, for him there awaits the fire of Hell; therein they shall dwell forever [and never get out of it.]"
This is not superficial to believe in the apostle that God sent to people or to deny such an apostle; this is a serious thing and has its serious implications.
Moreover, the belief by itself is not enough unless it is confirmed by the righteous work; and it can't be that one says he believes in God alone and in the apostle that God sent, while he works evil and commit the disobedience and contradicts the commandments of God and the instructions of His apostle.
(Whoso obeys the messenger [and is ready to fight in the way of God], obeys God [because the messenger works according to the command of God.]
But whoso turns away [from him and does not fight, We shall punish him;] then We have not sent you [Mohammed] to protect them [from the punishment.])
The above between brackets is the interpretation by the late Mohammed-Ali Hassan of the Quran 4: 80
مَّنْ يُطِعِ الرَّسُولَ فَقَدْ أَطَاعَ اللّهَ وَمَن تَوَلَّى فَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ عَلَيْهِمْ حَفِيظًا
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The believer has to admit that Mohammed is God's apostle or messenger; and that he is not His only messenger; the believer has to admit that God sent a large number of messengers or apostles and the last one of them was Mohammed.
The fly in that ointment is simply that in the previous few thousand years (according to the bible and quran) god sent numerous prophet and messengers. Then all of a sudden, along comes Mohammad and god stops send them. Just because Mohammad says he is the last, and his book is the last, doesn't make it so. If you believe that god sent messengers to all people all over the globe and in all historical time frames, why all of a sudden does he stop? Anybody who can think for themselves can see that is just ridiculous.
The only conclusion, based on your way of thinking, would be that god never stopped sending messengers nor is the quran the last set of instructions, written or unwritten. If god is everywhere and Omnipotent, then the message is everywhere and is given to people in a languages that they can understand. Everything you say you believe is a contradiction of everything you say you believe. You are a walking contradiction of yourself and you do your cause more harm than good.
The fly in that ointment is simply that in the previous few thousand years (according to the bible and quran) god sent numerous prophet and messengers. Then all of a sudden, along comes Mohammad and god stops send them. Just because Mohammad says he is the last, and his book is the last, doesn't make it so. If you believe that god sent messengers to all people all over the globe and in all historical time frames, why all of a sudden does he stop? Anybody who can think for themselves can see that is just ridiculous.
The only conclusion, based on your way of thinking, would be that god never stopped sending messengers nor is the quran the last set of instructions, written or unwritten. If god is everywhere and Omnipotent, then the message is everywhere and is given to people in a languages that they can understand. Everything you say you believe is a contradiction of everything you say you believe. You are a walking contradiction of yourself and you do your cause more harm than good.
The books revealed from God will last to the end of time, in case such books are preserved original and not distorted.
The Torah revealed to Moses is marvelous in its statements and commandments on condition it is preserved as it is without distortion.
The same is related to the Gospel and its parables.
And similarly the Quran is full of wisdom, and God gave His word to preserve it unchanged till Doomsday.
Moreover, the Quran is written and has to be written, but it is a revelation from God Almighty which then was commanded to be written.
In addition, the Quran as if it had been revealed to Mohammed, then it has been interpreted; so that the interpretation will be like a new revelation for this generation and the following generations.
I have edited that reply #30
Mohammed was the last prophet (of the progeny of Abraham: Mohammed is the seed of Ismael the son of Abraham), but he was not the last apostle or messenger.
The messenger is the one sent with a message: the message is to guide the erring people (who associated other idols or men together with God and so they worship God and worship other patrons besides Him.)
This is in the Quran 13: 7
إِنَّمَا أَنتَ مُنذِرٌ وَلِكُلِّ قَوْمٍ هَادٍ
The explanation:
(You [Mohammed] are only a warner, and every [erring] people have their guide.)
Therefore, every people who err from the devotion to God; then God, before punishing them, will send them a "guide" to explain to them about the pure monotheism and the exclusive devotion to God alone.
Then if they obey their "guide" then it is alright; but in case they disobey him then they will deserve the punishment.
Similarly, in the past, the Children of Israel had their warners, prophets, apostles, guides and seers.
(You [Mohammed] are only a warner, and every [erring] people have their guide.)
Therefore, every people who err from the devotion to God; then God, before punishing them, will send them a "guide" to explain to them about the pure monotheism and the exclusive devotion to God alone.
Then if they obey their "guide" then it is alright; but in case they disobey him then they will deserve the punishment.
Similarly, in the past, the Children of Israel had their warners, prophets, apostles, guides and seers.
Moreover, the Quran is preserved intact, contrary to the past heavenly books, but only the interpretation of the Quran will be the new revelation.
Since you believe that your god created you, are you a psychopath too? Is your god so emotionally retarded that he has a fit every time he doesn't get his own way? What kind of emotionally challenged god would slaughter people because they don't believe a bunch of stuff written in a book 1400 years ago by some barbarian in a cave? Of course this all has more to do with you and your interpretation of the quran.
You speak like the moronic TV evangelists over here who are always telling us what god wants and expects from us like they have a conversation with god every morning over coffee. The asylums are full of people who talk to god. If you don't talk to god directly, then how do you know what he wants?
It takes a very arrogant and egotistical person to assume they know what god wants. Either you are a very arrogant and egotistical person or you are blowing smoke out your ears.
You speak like the moronic TV evangelists over here who are always telling us what god wants and expects from us like they have a conversation with god every morning over coffee. The asylums are full of people who talk to god. If you don't talk to god directly, then how do you know what he wants?
It takes a very arrogant and egotistical person to assume they know what god wants. Either you are a very arrogant and egotistical person or you are blowing smoke out your ears.
Have I chosen the wolf as my avatar?
You will have the fit.
Yes 1400 years ago it was revealed, and the barbarian
the atheist and the idolater) do not accept it. The disbelievers are the worst among mankind: wrong-doers and transgressors; therefore God does not guide them and punishes them: because of their oppression.You blow the smoke out. :lol:
Not really. Humans are humans, prophet or otherwise. If one spouts dogma, one can easily be called a prophet. It looks to me like Mohammad was the same brand of critter as our Jehovah's Witnesses here. They call people to this god and show them their holy book, too.
My avatar is a coyote, the trickster of native legend. A creator in his own right, Coyote always does things the hard way but he makes people laugh at his antics.
Yet a Coyote has the courage to keep eating my cats but when I approach them and are no more scared then the cats they seek to eat when confronted by a human.
A wolf on the other hand when confronted by a human, is when a humans acts like a scared coyote... :lol: What does it mean when a wolf just wants to tear your head off? Every wolf on a leash I come accross just naturally hates me. I think wolves hate religious folk or something. Especially them blue eyed ones..
I think these "Jehovah's Witnesses" may be better than the rest of Christians in case they admit Jesus was not God nor the son of God, but was only an apostle like the other apostles.
However, not all humans are alike, so that you say: humans are humans, prophet or otherwise.
E.g. In the Battle of Uhud, when the archers disobeyed the instruction of the Prophet to stay in their positions whatever the result of the battle be: but when they saw the enemy fleeing they went to pursue them coveting for the booty, and left their position, and this disobedience caused their defeat, because some of the enemy attcked them from the back, and then the Muslims were defeated in that battle.
Afterwards, the archers came to the Prophet apologizing and he pardoned them;
so they said: if we were in the camp of the idolaters and their leader Abu Sufian, and the same consequence resulted and they were defeated; then we apologized to Abu Sufian, he would never pardon us.
Therefore, these Quran ayat 3: 161-162 were revealed:
وَمَا كَانَ لِنَبِيٍّ أَن يَغُلَّ وَمَن يَغْلُلْ يَأْتِ بِمَا غَلَّ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ ثُمَّ تُوَفَّى كُلُّ نَفْسٍ مَّا كَسَبَتْ وَهُمْ لاَ يُظْلَمُونَ . أَفَمَنِ اتَّبَعَ رِضْوَانَ اللّهِ كَمَن بَاء بِسَخْطٍ مِّنَ اللّهِ وَمَأْوَاهُ جَهَنَّمُ وَبِئْسَ الْمَصِيرُ
The explanation:
(It is not for any prophet to bear rancor [against his folk.]
Whoso bears rancor will bring his rancor with him on the Day of Judgment [and so will not intercede for them,] then every soul will be paid in full [the recompense of] what [good and evil] it has earned [in the life of the World]; and they will not be wronged [concerning their rights in what they deserve. ]
[But We choose for the message a kind-hearted man who is not rancorous, so he will not bear rancor against his people and therefore will forgive them and intercede for them before God.]
[Therefore, you should not compare Mohammed to Abu Sufian and say: if we were in his camp and we were defeated then he would not pardon us, while Mohammed has pardoned us.]
Is [Mohammed] then who follows the good pleasure of God like [the leader of the idolater] who incurs wrath of God, and his abode will be Hell? What an evil fate will be [his fate!])
http://www.quran-ayat.com/
(It is not for any prophet to bear rancor [against his folk.]
Whoso bears rancor will bring his rancor with him on the Day of Judgment [and so will not intercede for them,] then every soul will be paid in full [the recompense of] what [good and evil] it has earned [in the life of the World]; and they will not be wronged [concerning their rights in what they deserve. ]
[But We choose for the message a kind-hearted man who is not rancorous, so he will not bear rancor against his people and therefore will forgive them and intercede for them before God.]
[Therefore, you should not compare Mohammed to Abu Sufian and say: if we were in his camp and we were defeated then he would not pardon us, while Mohammed has pardoned us.]
Is [Mohammed] then who follows the good pleasure of God like [the leader of the idolater] who incurs wrath of God, and his abode will be Hell? What an evil fate will be [his fate!])
http://www.quran-ayat.com/