Israel - The Right to exist as a State?

Does Israel have the right to exist with secure borders free from attack


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Downhome_Woman

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Dec 2, 2008
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Well, an interesting and valuable piece of propaganda......and I mean that without the usual negative.....propaganda that tells truth is valuable.

But, I would hardly call it a "documentary". Documentaries tell both sides.

:)

I did enjoy it.
I would also add that to say that a documentary tells both sides, is the same as saying that the purpose of a newspaper is to let the people know what is happening. the purpose of a newspaper is to sell advertisements. Ads are the first things that are set when the paper is being set up. All articles are then put in around the ads, based on what has the best bet of grabbing the eye - forget about what is most important morally, journalisticly or anything else. As long as it draws the eye to the ad. this also goes for magazines as well. and this was from my professor who'd worked in the business.
 

ironsides

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Feb 13, 2009
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When I read that document, I see 95% of the atrocities were committed by Israel against Palestinians. To be fair, 95% of the condemnation should be directed at Israel.

This alone shows your support for the Palestinians.

This is just another example of yours and the media's bias against Israel. How come the report gores into detail about the lack of Israeli cooperation and barely any mention that Hamas has not even begun on other than maybe form a group to look into it. Where is the report Hamas submitted? Why are you and others not pressuring Hamas also? Afraid to ruffle their feathers?


Rights groups question credibility of IDF Gaza inquiry

Human Rights Watch calls on both Israel, Hamas to cooperate with UN investigation into war crime allegations. Meanwhile jurists remain divided over army's report as detractors slam reluctance to delve into morally gray questions, supporters insist any probe must be internal-Israeli Ynet Published: 04.24.09, 11:30 / Israel News


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"The Israeli military's findings about the conduct of its forces in Gaza, announced on April 22, lack credibility and confirm the need for an impartial international inquiry into alleged violations by both Israel and Hamas," Human Rights Watch said in a statement issued Thursday.

"The conclusions are an apparent attempt to mask violations of the laws of war by Israeli forces in Gaza. Only an impartial inquiry will provide a measure of redress for the civilians who were killed unlawfully," said
Joe Stork, deputy Middle East and North Africa director at HRW

Hamas


Deriving from the Muslim Brotherhood and unwilling to recognize Israel's right to exist, Hamas sees holy war as the religious duty of every Muslim. There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad, it states.

Rights groups question credibility of IDF Gaza inquiry - Israel News, Ynetnews
 

MHz

Time Out
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This is just another example of yours and the media's bias against Israel. How come the report gores into detail about the lack of Israeli cooperation and barely any mention that Hamas has not even begun on other than maybe form a group to look into it. Where is the report Hamas submitted? Why are you and others not pressuring Hamas also? Afraid to ruffle their feathers?
Perhaps Israel is under the gun about because this article is about their own report being flawed. You have wonder, ..... they admit sniping civilians would be a 'crime' but killing 1,000 or so by WMD's is perfectly alright. (wonder how high the promotion was for the one that came up with the 'one shot, two kills' slogan?)
This just means Hamas needs bigger weapons before their 'crimes' are in the same league (legal kills). If Israel really cared about it's citizens then they would let Hamas have bigger and more accurate weapons, (so they could hit a designated military ratget instead of civilian, for all the money they spend, and brag about their accuracy, on guided munitions they still hit UN (esp) facilities and civilian instalations, like hospitals and power/water stations. All those places are listed as not legal so if they are all 'accidents' their right to use that weapon should be forbidden since that shows they are lousy shots and,even knowing that, they opened up on places where it civilians are known to be. Sign some sort of agreement where they cannot target the 'combatants' when they quite their 8hrs of war/ day and are at home with the family for the night. Better yet set up some targets in the desert to the south and set up cut-outs, most points wins. Hamas gets some of their current rockets and Isreal has to lets off at least $1B worth of whatever they choose for each Hamas rocket that gets fired. (numbers can be from from prior data) Lebanon owes Israel about 6 rockets for that last bombing run Israel did a few years back, still counting for Gaza. 50 rockets = $50B worth of explosives via air/artillery/small arms. In theory Isreal should be able to kill them several times over, ..... at least until the money runs out.
Take a tally after 6mo, 1 yr & 5 and 10 year intervals for as long as it takes for one-side to be declared a winner. That way the prize would still be as useful.

In that vid about Hamas firing motars wasn't there a smoke trail? Anyway since there was I was wondering if you had a google-earth location for that location so I could check the direction (via the smoke-trail) with the location given about where it landed. Why wouldn't they shoot at the helo and where are all the 'civilians'? Most densely populated place in the world and not one 'by-stander' could be seen

Every time Hamas gets more than 10 people on the same block it get pounded by the military, perhaps they don't want (or need) any time to get their story straight, as far as I know they are not bucking being taken to a war-crimes court.. Israel is insisting the world take their investigation as the one and only say (in the world) on the matter. Present it to the Judges they can fill inj the details of things like this. link below. After all America does it when dealing with 'mistakes' in Afghanistan and Iraq and that is more than 1M when taken back to Gulf I.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3705363,00.html

Gaza father: IDF lying in investigation

Dr. Mahmoud Iyad, whose two sons were killed by IDF fire during the daily humanitarian ceasefire during Operation Cast Lead, is furious with the army's vindication of its conduct - 'Are my sons the little mistakes the deputy chief of staff is talking about?'

This alone shows your support for the Palestinians.

All those vetoes in the UN and all the free aid and the free weapons over the decades would seem to show the US's support for Israel over the local population.
 

darkbeaver

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As I thought. Just like any other group.

WOW! This thread's sure been hijacked.

You remember when that group of Nazis wanted an expanded homeland well Israel is just "another group" like that who just want to peacefully expand over the indigenous inhabitants, all based on bogus superiority myth of no historical validity. The resemblance is striking, the methods unmistakable, the motive, exactly the same.
 

ironsides

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Feb 13, 2009
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In that vid about Hamas firing motars wasn't there a smoke trail? Anyway since there was I was wondering if you had a google-earth location for that location so I could check the direction (via the smoke-trail) with the location given about where it landed. Why wouldn't they shoot at the helo and where are all the 'civilians'? Most densely populated place in the world and not one 'by-stander' could be seen

Every time Hamas gets more than 10 people on the same block it get pounded by the military, perhaps they don't want (or need) any time to get their story straight, as far as I know they are not bucking being taken to a war-crimes court.. Israel is insisting the world take their investigation as the one and only say (in the world) on the matter. Present it to the Judges they can fill inj the details of things like this. link below. After all America does it when dealing with 'mistakes' in Afghanistan and Iraq and that is more than 1M when taken back to Gulf I.
Gaza father: IDF lying in investigation - Israel News, Ynetnews

Gaza father: IDF lying in investigation

Dr. Mahmoud Iyad, whose two sons were killed by IDF fire during the daily humanitarian ceasefire during Operation Cast Lead, is furious with the army's vindication of its conduct - 'Are my sons the little mistakes the deputy chief of staff is talking about?'



All those vetoes in the UN and all the free aid and the free weapons over the decades would seem to show the US's support for Israel over the local population.

Here is all I have on this particular subject. They were lucky to see them in time.

YouTube - Hamas Rockets During Cease-Fire and From Schoolyard 8 Jan. 09


As for a Hamas response other than they are not sorry random guided rockets killing civilians. The world still waits.

http://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Hamas_in_Combat.pdf
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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No question it is propaganda, but it was well done and sort of balances out what we have heard from the other side.
If you like documentaries, reserve "Defamation" from your local library or watch 10 pieces on youtube.

An Israeli asks the question "What is Anti-Semitism?" because he had never experienced it.

It gives a side you don't see that often.

YouTube - Defamation Part 1
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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I have condemned Palestinian militant war crimes. If you like, I will repeat that condemnation.

Anyone who fires rockets and mortars at civilians is a war criminal. Palestinian militants who have attacked Israeli civilians are war criminals and should be brought before the ICJ along side the Israeli war criminals.

Satisfied?

I suggest you read the Goldstone Report:
United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza conflict

I have read this document from one end to the other and I'm well aware of its contents. If you read it, you would also be aware of all the atrocities, not just the Palestinian ones.


EAO
So splain to a simpleton like myself exactly what action Israel should take when rockets kill or maim - suicide bombing - civilians killed - Just a brief listing of Palestinian War Crimes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2001%E2%80%932006http://

www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/08/06/gazaisrael-hamas-rocket-attacks-civilians-unlawfu

l"Hamas rocket attacks targeting Israeli civilians are unlawful and unjustifiable, and amount to war crimes," said Iain Levine, program director at Human Rights Watch. "As the governing authority in Gaza, Hamas should publicly renounce rocket attacks on Israeli civilian centers and punish those responsible, including members of its own armed wing.

"The locally made Qassam rockets and Soviet-designed Grad rockets used by Hamas and other armed groups cannot be aimed with any reliability. Under the laws of war, such weapons are indiscriminate when used against targets in densely populated areas. The absence of Israeli military forces in the areas struck by the rockets, as well as statements from the leaders of the Palestinian armed groups, indicate that the armed groups deliberately intended to strike Israeli civilians and civilian structures. For example, Abu Obeida, a spokesman for Hamas's Qassam Brigades, said in a video released on January 5, 2009 that "continuing the incursion will only make us increase our rocket range [...]. We will double the number of Israelis under fire.

"Under the laws of war, individuals who willfully authorize or carry out deliberate or indiscriminate attacks against civilians are committing war crimes.
 

petros

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Do they launch these rockets into illegal settlements where they stuffed the Russian Jews (former blood enemies 20 years ago) into brand new houses built by and are armed to the teeth by Evangelical Christianity (created by Mossadomites) through cash donations and take pot shots into Gaza all night or shoot at Palestinians trying to farm their land or children walking to school or do they launch them into Tel Aviv and Jerusalem?
 

petros

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EAO
So splain to a simpleton like myself exactly what action Israel should take when rockets kill or maim - suicide bombing - civilians killed - Just a brief listing of Palestinian War Crimes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2001%E2%80%932006http://

www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/08/06/gazaisrael-hamas-rocket-attacks-civilians-unlawfu

l"Hamas rocket attacks targeting Israeli civilians are unlawful and unjustifiable, and amount to war crimes," said Iain Levine, program director at Human Rights Watch. "As the governing authority in Gaza, Hamas should publicly renounce rocket attacks on Israeli civilian centers and punish those responsible, including members of its own armed wing.

"The locally made Qassam rockets and Soviet-designed Grad rockets used by Hamas and other armed groups cannot be aimed with any reliability. Under the laws of war, such weapons are indiscriminate when used against targets in densely populated areas. The absence of Israeli military forces in the areas struck by the rockets, as well as statements from the leaders of the Palestinian armed groups, indicate that the armed groups deliberately intended to strike Israeli civilians and civilian structures. For example, Abu Obeida, a spokesman for Hamas's Qassam Brigades, said in a video released on January 5, 2009 that "continuing the incursion will only make us increase our rocket range [...]. We will double the number of Israelis under fire.

"Under the laws of war, individuals who willfully authorize or carry out deliberate or indiscriminate attacks against civilians are committing war crimes.
The rockets are the biggest propaganda going. Count the dead 18 since 2001. How many Palestinians have been killed by Israel in the same time frame?

When Hamas gets a few F111's and carpet bombs, 100,000t of artillery using phosphorus and other chems, an aircraft carrier or two, a few nuke subs, are flying armed drones 24/7 over Tel Aviv, a missle defense system, 300 nukes and a half decent pick up truck I'll stop calling foul.

Speaking of a pricy missle defense system paid for by Nor Am working slobs. Why isn't it being used against these rockets or is it that Israel doesn't give a **** about their lowest classes of society that they illegally stuff in the firing line?
 

earth_as_one

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So splain to a simpleton like myself exactly what action Israel should take when rockets kill or maim - suicide bombing - civilians killed - Just a brief listing of Palestinian War Crimes....

"Under the laws of war, individuals who willfully authorize or carry out deliberate or indiscriminate attacks against civilians are committing war crimes.

Israel is justified in taking steps to prevent Palestinian rocket and mortar attacks, up to but not including committing war crimes and crimes against humanity. But if Israel really was concerned about reducing and eliminating these attacks, then they should have observed the terms of the 2008 ceasefire agreement, which did not include continuing their collective punishment of 1.5 millions Gazans by blocking humanitarian food and medical aid or launching a raid inside Gaza in Nov. 2008. Until then Hamas (unlike Israel) had respected the terms of the ceasefire.

Unlike you Goober, I have condemned war crimes by both sides in this conflict... Many times in fact. Unlike you, I have no problem identifying both Palestinian and Israeli war crimes. I have repeatedly said that I support dragging war criminals from both sides of this conflict before the ICJ where they can be held accountable for their actions. If any of these criminals sets foot in Canada, I support arresting them and extraditing them to the Hague.

You obviously don't believe the last line you wrote. Because if you did, you wouldn't support Israel's deliberate and indiscriminate attacks against Palestinian civilians.

Let me reference yet again the horrendous atrocities you refuse to acknowledge, let alone condemn:


The Mission found that, in the lead up to the Israeli military assault on Gaza, Israel imposed a blockade amounting to collective punishment and carried out a systematic policy of progressive isolation and deprivation of the Gaza Strip. During the military operation, houses, factories, wells, schools, hospitals, police stations and other public buildings were destroyed, with families, including the elderly and children, left living amid the rubble of their former dwellings long after the attacks ended, as no reconstruction has been possible due to the continuing blockade. Significant trauma, both immediate and long-term, has been suffered by the population of Gaza. More than 1400 people were killed. The Gaza military operations were directed by Israel at the people of Gaza as a whole, in furtherance of an overall policy aimed at punishing the Gaza population, and in a deliberate policy of disproportionate force aimed at the civilian population. The destruction of food supply installations, water sanitation systems, concrete factories and residential houses was the result of a deliberate and systematic policy to make the daily process of living, and dignified living, more difficult for the civilian population. Israeli forces also humiliated, dehumanized and carried out an assault on the dignity of the people in Gaza, through the use of human shields, unlawful detentions, unacceptable conditions of detention, the vandalizing of houses, the treatment of people when their houses were entered, graffiti on the walls, obscenities and racist slogans. The Israeli operations were carefully planned in all their phases as a deliberately disproportionate attack designed to punish, humiliate and terrorize a civilian population, radically diminish its local economic capacity both to work and to provide for itself, and to force upon it an ever increasing sense of dependency and vulnerability. Responsibility lies in the first place with those who designed, planned, ordered and oversaw the operations.

Israel failed to take feasible precautions required by international law to avoid or minimize loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects. The firing of white phosphorus shells over the UNRWA compound, the intentional strike at the Al Quds hospital using high explosive artillery shells and white phosphorous, the attack against Al Wafa hospital, were violations of international humanitarian law. The kinds of warnings issued by Israel in Gaza cannot be considered as sufficiently effective in the circumstances to comply with customary law. There were numerous instances of deliberate attacks on civilians and civilian objects (individuals, whole families, houses, mosques) in violation of the fundamental international humanitarian law principle of distinction, resulting in deaths and serious injuries. Israeli attacks were also launched with the intention of spreading terror among the civilian population. In several cases, Israeli armed forces did not allow humanitarian organisations access to the wounded and medical relief, as required by international law. In one incident investigated, involving the deaths of at least 35 Palestinians, the Mission found that Israeli forces launched an attack which a reasonable commander would have expected to cause excessive loss of civilian life. By deliberately attacking police stations and killing large numbers of policemen, most of whom were civilian non-combatants, Israel violated international humanitarian law.

The Mission found that Israel used white phosphorous, flechettes and heavy metal weapons. The use of white phosphorous, flechettes and heavy metal (such as tungsten) is restricted or even prohibited in certain circumstances. Flechettes, as an area weapon, are particularly unsuitable for use in urban settings while the Mission is of the view that the use of white phosphorous as an obscurant should be banned. The Mission also investigated several incidents in which Israeli armed forces used local Palestinian residents as human shields. Israel’s questioning of Palestinian civilians under threat of death or injury to extract information constitutes a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Israeli forces in Gaza rounded up and detained large groups of persons protected under the Fourth Geneva Convention. Severe beatings, humiliating and degrading treatment and detention in foul conditions suffered by individuals in the Gaza Strip under the control of the Israeli forces and in detention in Israel, constitute a violation of international humanitarian and human rights law. Israel’s treatment of women during detention was contrary to the requirements of international law. Israel’s rounding-up of large groups of civilians and their prolonged detention under the circumstances described in the Report constitute a collective penalty and amounts to measures of intimidation or terror prohibited the Fourth Geneva Convention. Israel’s attacks against the Palestinian Legislative Council building and the main prison in Gaza constituted deliberate attacks on civilian objects in violation of international humanitarian law. Israeli armed forces unlawfully and wantonly attacked and destroyed without military necessity a number of food production facilities, drinking water installations, farms and animals. Israeli forces carried out widespread destruction of private residential houses, water wells and water tanks unlawfully and wantonly. Israel also disregarded the inviolability of United Nations premises, facilities and staff, and this is unacceptable.

Israel’s blockade of Gaza amounts to a violation of Israel’s obligations as an Occupying Power under the Fourth Geneva Convention. The deliberate actions of the Israeli forces and the declared policies of the Government indicate the intention to inflict collective punishment on the people of the Gaza Strip. Israel violated its obligation to allow free passage of all consignments of medical and hospital objects, food and clothing that were needed to meet the urgent humanitarian needs of the civilian population.

There is strong evidence that Israeli forces committed grave breaches of the Fourth Geneva Convention in Gaza, including: willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, and extensive destruction of property. As grave breaches, these acts give rise to individual criminal responsibility. The use of human shields also constitutes a war crime under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. Israeli acts that deprive Palestinians in the Gaza Strip of their means of subsistence, employment, housing and water, that deny their freedom of movement and their right to leave and enter their own country, that limit their rights to access a court of law and an effective remedy, could lead a competent court to find that the crime of persecution, a crime against humanity, has been committed.

In the West Bank, with acts of violence by settlers against Palestinians (which have increased), Israel failed to protect the Palestinians, and sometimes acquiesced to the acts of violence. Israel used excessive force against Palestinian demonstrators, including the use of firearms, including live ammunition, and the use of snipers resulting in the deaths of demonstrators, in violation of international law. Israel has discriminatory “open fire regulations” for security forces dealing with demonstrations, based on the presence of persons with a particular nationality, violating the principle of non-discrimination in international law. Israel has failed to investigate, and when appropriate prosecute, acts by its agents or by third parties involving serious violations of international humanitarian law and human rights law. Israel’s removal of residential status from Palestinians could lead to virtual deportation and entail additional violations of other rights.

Israeli practices of detention of Palestinians in Israeli prisons before and during the military operations are generally inconsistent with human rights requirements. The practice of administrative detention by Israel contravenes the right not to be arbitrarily detained, and Israel’s use of secret evidence as a basis for the administrative detention is inconsistent with the ICCPR. The detention of members of the Palestinian Legislative Council by Israel is in violation of the ICCPR also constitutes an instance of collective punishment prohibited under article 33 of the GC IV. The same can be said about the massive detention of adults and children, often in inhuman or degrading conditions and without the guarantees required by international law.

Israeli checkpoints are often a site of humiliation. The extensive destruction and appropriation of property, including land confiscation and house demolitions in the West Bank including East Jerusalem, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly, amounts to a grave breach of the Geneva Conventions. The continued construction of settlements constitutes a violation of article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. As movement and access restrictions, the settlements and their infrastructure, demographic policies vis-à-vis Jerusalem and Area C of the West bank, as well as the separation of Gaza from the West Bank, prevent a viable, contiguous and sovereign Palestinian state from arising, they are in violation of the ius cogens right to self-determination.

The prolonged situation of impunity has created a justice crisis in the OPT that warrants action. Israel’s system of investigation and prosecution of serious violations of human rights and humanitarian law, in particular of suspected war crimes and crimes against humanity, has major structural flaws that make the system inconsistent with international standards. The few investigations conducted by the Israeli authorities on alleged serious violations of international human rights and humanitarian law and, in particular, alleged war crimes, lack the required credibility and conformity with international standards. There is little potential for accountability for serious violations of international humanitarian and human rights law through domestic institutions in Israel.

Inside Israel, there has been intolerance for dissent against the war, the authorities placed obstacles in the way of protesters, there were instances of physical violence against protesters, and hostile retaliatory actions against civil society organisations by the Government. Activists were also compelled to attend interviews with the General Security Services. Israel’s denial of media access to Gaza and the continuing denial of access to human rights monitors are an attempt to remove the Government’s actions from public scrutiny and to impede investigations and reporting.

Palestinian armed groups have launched rockets and mortars into Israel since April 2001. Between 27 December 2008 and 18 January 2009, these attacks have left 4 people dead and hundreds injured, while causing terror, psychological trauma, and erosion of the educational, social, cultural and economic lives of the communities in southern Israel. For its part, Israel has not provided the same level of protection from rockets and mortars to affected Palestinian citizens as it has to Jewish citizens....
Simpleton? Maybe.
HYPOCRITE? Definitely!
 
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Goober

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The rockets are the biggest propaganda going. Count the dead 18 since 2001. How many Palestinians have been killed by Israel in the same time frame?

When Hamas gets a few F111's and carpet bombs, 100,000t of artillery using phosphorus and other chems, an aircraft carrier or two, a few nuke subs, are flying armed drones 24/7 over Tel Aviv, a missle defense system, 300 nukes and a half decent pick up truck I'll stop calling foul.

Speaking of a pricy missle defense system paid for by Nor Am working slobs. Why isn't it being used against these rockets or is it that Israel doesn't give a **** about their lowest classes of society that they illegally stuff in the firing line?

PetrosI will leave it up to you or MHZ - EAO to come up with the count - Does the constant terror of living under attacks count as warfare??
 

petros

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Ponder this for a moment Goober.

Is Islam spreading or being forced from it's homelands and going global in the exact way as the claimed Diaspora that Israel uses as some make believe excuse to exist?
 

Goober

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Ponder this for a moment Goober.

Is Islam spreading or being forced from it's homelands and going global in the exact way as the claimed Diaspora that Israel uses as some make believe excuse to exist?
PetrosFunny you should mention that - In study after study and by one I recall the PEW Institute - stated thatwhile Anti US sentiment was high in Arab countries yet in these self same countries many dreamed of immigrating to the US - Why - freedom -
 

darkbeaver

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PetrosI will leave it up to you or MHZ - EAO to come up with the count - Does the constant terror of living under attacks count as warfare??

How much of the GDP of Israel is a result of exporting war and terror? War and terror is the economy of Israel and the economy of Israel is war and terror. Israel will have war or it will not and could not exist.
 

darkbeaver

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PetrosFunny you should mention that - In study after study and by one I recall the PEW Institute - stated thatwhile Anti US sentiment was high in Arab countries yet in these self same countries many dreamed of immigrating to the US - Why - freedom -

Yeah I used to watch the same movies they're watching. More Israelis immigrate to the states than all the Arabs put together.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
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Goober,

Most people can distinguish between Americans and American foreign policy. Most Arabs and Muslims don't hate all Americans. They just hate the criminals who commit war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Personally I don't hate anyone. I just want criminals brought to trial and held accountable for their crimes, regardless of their nationality and religion.

I also want my country to stop unshakably supporting criminals. We used to have a reputation for being fair and just until we elected Harper.

So are you going to acknowledge and condemn Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity or continue being a hypocrite? See post #350
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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How much of the GDP of Israel is a result of exporting war and terror? War and terror is the economy of Israel and the economy of Israel is war and terror. Israel will have war or it will not and could not exist.
DB

Please list the TV, Radio shows and book titles that are directed at hatred of Jews - To make it easy I will only hold you to Hamas and Hezbollah - The other Arab countries when you add the list up well you would need your own cray comp to hold the data
 

petros

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How much of the GDP of Israel is a result of exporting war and terror? War and terror is the economy of Israel and the economy of Israel is war and terror. Israel will have war or it will not and could not exist.
Does that including selling tonnes and tonnes of cocaine and heroine to the poorset of the American poor then using that money to make big buck being middle men arming the next state they want to call a threat?
 

petros

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PetrosFunny you should mention that - In study after study and by one I recall the PEW Institute - stated thatwhile Anti US sentiment was high in Arab countries yet in these self same countries many dreamed of immigrating to the US - Why - freedom -
Who did they survey? 14-24 year old males within 15 mins of watching Baywatch reruns? Do they see Detroit or Washington DC news with all it's violence or just the movies and TV shows that are nothing like what life in America is really all about.

Does America look anything like what is shown in TV and movies to you? Yes or no?