It's time to bring the death penalty back!

[Nuggler]

quote=#juan;1211933]A lot of drawing and quartering was tearing the convict's body apart after he/she was dead. Hardly any fun in that. The mistake was the sentence. To be hung, drawn, and quartered should have been drawn, quartered and hung.......The problem of course was that you had at least four bits to hang......Nasty business....;-):roll:[/quote]


Nope: They hung ya first, but cut you down just before you passed out, or died. No drop to break your neck. Slow pull up from the ground.

Then, they put ya on a table or whatever and gutted ya, but not enough to kill ya. Can be done, eh. At this time ya probably lost yer nasty bits.

THEN they cut ya up in quarters. At which time or maybe before. Ya died.

irate:Argh Billy Over the side with the lubbers, but saves the wimmin till last .
ARRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!
IF ya knows whut I means.
ARRRRRRRGH.
har har har har

 

[countryboy]

But here you are talking about how things should be according to you (that there be no appeal, as soon as a murderer is sentenced, bang, he is shot dead and that is it), not how things actually are.

Actually things are very much as I mentioned, nobody has cooked up any statistics. When they calculated all the costs associated with the death penalty, cost of housing the prisoner, cost of running the courts, cost of public prosecutor, public defender, judges’ salaries, cost of associate personnel, they found that it costs much more to execute a criminal than it does to give him life without parole (where there are no endless appeals).

So essentially what you are advocating is not US style of death penalty, but something much more barbaric, much more primitive, something on the style of what was practiced by Taliban or Saddam Hussein or similar dictators. What essentially you are advocating is that as soon as somebody is sentenced to death; let us shoot him dead, no appeals, no delays, no expenses.

Well, good luck with that. I don’t think even the most extreme; most right wing politician will go for something like that.

Well, you do bring up a good point, SirJP. It's a bit like the Toyota (or other) product recalls. If you do it right the first time, you shouldn't have to keep revisiting it in an attempt to "get it right."

In the case of a murder conviction, is it not the objective of a fair trial to prove "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that the person is guilty? If that is done correctly or "right" or "effectively"), what would be the reason for appeals, delays, and other costly things you mentioned above?

Are you saying that the trial process is flawed in the first place? Maybe that is where we should be looking as a first step in coming up with some recommendations for changes or improvements.

 

[Machjo]

It is time to bring the death penalty back to Canada. Crime is out of control, and people just aren't getting the message. It is widely accepted that jail time is not an adequate deterrant.

Canada needs to bring back public hangings. A public execution is the only way to ensure that people get the picture.

The time for playing games with justice is over. I propose that Canada bring the death penalty back, and that the scope of crimes punishable by death, be expanded to include corrupt police officers and government officials.

A police officer or civil servant that conspires with private enterprise to commit crime and to cover it up, must face the ultimate penalty. They must be executed in the public square.

It is time to get serious. It is time to leave the words behind and get things done. Corruption cannot and will not be tolerated, and the only good deterrant is death.

Throughout history, kings and corrupt government officials have been beheaded for betraying the people. With the advent of democracy, this insistence that officials be held accountable to the people, has been somehow lost. It's time to bring accountability back to Canada. It's time to bring back the gallows, gas chambers, guilotines, and electric chairs. It's time to rid Canada of corruption. And the time tested public execution is the way to do it.

Off with their heads...

You are kidding, right? But for the sake of argument, I'll assume you're dead serious (excuse the pun). Now I'm all for reinstating capital punishment in principle. What you seem to be suggesting though is akin to reviving Genghis Khan and putting him at the head of the government. Public hangings, guillotines?You make it sound like capital punishment just ain't worth it unless you can make it fun. I take it we'd have to have a lottery to see who gets the honours of chopping the head off with glee?

 

[Machjo]

...and public floggings for jaywalkers.

Oh, I fully agree. Maybe we can make a reality show out of it too... he hem, for education purposes of course.

 

[petros]

Maybe we don't do it any more is because it was a ****ed up thing to do in the first place?

 

[Machjo]

Hate to wreck my right-wing looney credentials, but crime in Canada is hardly "out of control". we live in an amazingly peaceful society

Ah shucks... here I am trying to pideonhole everyone and there you go raining on my parade again... Off with your head!

 

[Risus]

Should we return to not paying taxes being a mortal offence too?

If you don't have anything constructive to say, shut up.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Well, you do bring up a good point, SirJP. It's a bit like the Toyota (or other) product recalls. If you do it right the first time, you shouldn't have to keep revisiting it in an attempt to "get it right."

In the case of a murder conviction, is it not the objective of a fair trial to prove "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that the person is guilty? If that is done correctly or "right" or "effectively"), what would be the reason for appeals, delays, and other costly things you mentioned above?

Are you saying that the trial process is flawed in the first place? Maybe that is where we should be looking as a first step in coming up with some recommendations for changes or improvements.

You seem to have a misconception of how the judicial system works countryboy. The objective of the trial is not to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that the person is guilty. Objective is to see if there is enough evidence to convict him ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’. That is the standard for criminal trials.

Indeed, that is why we see innocent person convicted from time to time. ‘Beyond a reasonable doubt, is not a very high threshold to cross. That is why the outcome is subject tot vagaries of evidence (which evidence is admitted and which is kept out), testimony of witnesses (who may or may not be reliable), subjective prejudices of the jurors etc.

The whole process is definitely flawed, but unfortunately there is nothing better. Wrongful convictions do occur from time to time (‘beyond a reasonable doubt’). If the criminal is alive, not been put to death, the state can at least attempt to make a partial recompense. If the criminal has been executed, there is no way to make amends if he is subsequently found to be innocent.

 

[petros]

Quoting petros Should we return to not paying taxes being a mortal offence too?

If you don't have anything constructive to say, shut up.

Well why not? It was once a law on the books. It had no repeat offenders either.

Do you NOT pay your taxes? If so then what do you have to worry about?

 

[JLM]

SJP: You are wrong about death sentence being more expensive than parole or life without parole. The stats are manipulated by those opposed to the death penalty. One bullet right after sentencing costs less than fifty cents and a rope can be reused which is even cheaper. It is only because of the mainly taxpayer financed endless appeal process given those sentenced to death that makes it so expensive.
Most petty theft /B&E are drug related and that is a medical problem being dealt with in the wrong manner by our joke of a justice system. When these are removed there is a far lower repeat rate.
Being one of the people that gets to clean up the mess I could be persuaded that drunk drivers be executed as well if they kill someone.

Refreshing to see some common sense.

 

[JLM]

Well, you do bring up a good point, SirJP. It's a bit like the Toyota (or other) product recalls. If you do it right the first time, you shouldn't have to keep revisiting it in an attempt to "get it right."

In the case of a murder conviction, is it not the objective of a fair trial to prove "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that the person is guilty? If that is done correctly or "right" or "effectively"), what would be the reason for appeals, delays, and other costly things you mentioned above?

Are you saying that the trial process is flawed in the first place? Maybe that is where we should be looking as a first step in coming up with some recommendations for changes or improvements.

I would have absolutely no problem with appeals Countryboy as along as they happened within 7 days of the trial and the defendent had new evidence or witnesses to present, but no not for rehashing the same old same old. BTW capital punishment has got nothing to do with political parties, what it's got to do with is whether you want things done right or not. Paying $millions to keep the likes of Olson and dear sweet little Karla, definitely isn't right.

 

[petros]

I would have absolutely no problem with appeals Countryboy as along as they happened within 7 days of the trial and the defendent had new evidence or witnesses to present, but no not for rehashing the same old same old. BTW capital punishment has got nothing to do with political parties, what it's got to do with is whether you want things done right or not. Paying $millions to keep the likes of Olson and dear sweet little Karla, definitely isn't right.

Is that 7 business days? So why not shoot all criminals then? The cost is the same to keep a Clifford or a dime bagger.

 

[petros]

Tired of Red & Blue?

try NEW Soylent GREEN!

 

[JLM]

Is that 7 business days? So why not shoot all criminals then? The cost is the same to keep a Clifford or a dime bagger.

Sure, most businesses are open on Sundays anyway. :smile:

 

[Downhome_Woman]

I struggle with this issue.

Others have brought up cases like Milgaard and Truscott... men who should never have been convicted yet would have been executed if capital punishment hadn't been suspended. At the same time, I see the Cilfford Olsen's of the world and see nothing redeeming in letting them live. I see cases where police officers are shot in the line of duty and have a hard time convincing myself their murderers deserve to live. Cases of repeat pedophiles who damage and destroy innocent young lives who in most cases are too young to understand what is happening to them.

The best I can come up with is that capital punishment should be reinstituted but with very stringent guidelines. The circumstantial cases shouldn't be considered for more than life without parole. Capital punishment should require DNA evidence, photographic, multiple corroborating witnesses or the like. Guilty verdicts require "beyond a reasonable doubt", capital ones should be beyond any doubt.

It's because of people like Steven Truscott, Donald Marshall, David Milgaard, Guy Paul Morin and Thomas Sophonow that I don't struggle with this issue. Each of these men was convicted by jurists who were convinced beyond a doubt that the evidence presented to them was true. the only reason they're free is that the death penalty didn't exist and that they fought hard to prove their innocence.
Here's the problem as I see it. There will always be issues with evidence and testimony. If we have the death penalty, and we convict someone that may be innocent, that person never has the chance to prove themself innocent. If we had the death penalty, Truscott, Milgaard, Morin, Sophonow - they'd all be dead. Add to that, the death penalty has never been proven to deter murder. Look at the states in USA that have the death penalty and tell me that their crime rates are lower than states that don't have the death penalty.
What would I like to see? Sentences that reflect the crimes. I'd like to see pedophiles, rapists and abusers go to jail or prison for much longer than they do now. While they may not be 'murdering' bodies, what they are doing to the minds and souls of the people they harm is just as horrendous.

 

[petros]

Sure, most businesses are open on Sundays anyway. :smile:

Post office too? If you need to send registered and only have 7 days.....

 

[JLM]

Post office too? If you need to send registered and only have 7 days.....

If he thinks it's important enough he can probably find a courier that will do it for a price............................:lol::lol:

 

[petros]

If he thinks it's important enough he can probably find a courier that will do it for a price............................:lol::lol:

With taxpayer money? Is a courier bonded like the post is tho serve someone papers?

 

[darkbeaver]

I have enrolled in an execution course at community college. I want to press the buttons.

 

[petros]

I have enrolled in an execution course at community college. I want to press the buttons.

I'll start a micro brewery and sponsor it. PPV on Ch 322