Fat Kids

[talloola]

It has worked, really? Then why is there such a big problem of obesity? The fact is that it hasn't worked, that is why we are discussing obesity here.



Again, if it is so simple, why hasn't it worked, why do we still have such a big problem of obesity?



Well, you don't have any solution, do you, except to utter platitudes?



You are not blaming fat people, really? Then what is the reason of telling them to eat less, eat right, to exercise? Do you think they don’t know it, that you are telling them something new?

What you are doing is the classic blame the victim attitude. The same attitude that wants to solve the drug problem by locking up drug addicts.

Fat people don’t need advice like eat less, eat right etc. most of them already know that. They need the reasons why it doesn’t work, and what could possibly a solution to it.

If fat people allready know that, then it is obvious they need psychological help
to build up some discipline in their lives, so that they do not just go into a
depressed state because they are fat, they have to learn to do something about it, and
the answer 'is' the above, excercise and eat less, and eat properly.
Fat people are not victims, they are enemys of themselves, and they need to know
that enemy, and fight it off, saying they are victims brings on sympathy and
someone to lean on to feel sorry for them, that does not help them.

Most of us are in that exact same situation, but of various different states of
fatness, eg. for me is 'always' having to be aware, each and every day to monitor
what I eat, and how much, and sure, now that Xmas is over I see that during the month of december I have gained about 10 lbs, and also can't excercise much right
now because of sciatica, but I am on top of it 'right now', will check my eating
habits 'right now', will do everything I can to get rid of sciatica, right now,
and get myself back on track, and no one will talk me out of doing that, with
tempting foods, junk foods, too much food, etc., or, (and this one is common),
friends who are fat, who want company in that department, not different from drinking or smoking, I will part company from such people for my own good health.
I am also the mother of four daughters, and two grandaughters, and I want them to
see me as a good example of how to take care of one's body as they grow up and
older, if I walk around out of shape and dumpy, (which could happen to me, or
almost any older woman/man), they could do the same later on, and I don't want to
see any of them 'fat'. My oldest daughter is overweight, and has the disposition
of my husband, (italian), and gains weight very easily, and she will have to be
very careful with her body, as she is in late 40s now and seeing that the body
needs more attention.
Every opinion I have given above does not apply to those who have severe medical
problems, I am not a doctor, don't know those reasons why those persons would
be fat.

 

[talloola]

I couldn't care less about middle east countries admiring fat
women because it shows that the husband is successful.

All of those explanations are ridiculous, and just proves again
that the women are like any other possession, and not an
individual within her own right.

If she likes herself 'fat', 'just because', then good for her.
Nothing to do with anyone else. When she becomes diabetic, or
her body begins to break down because of weight, then she can
figure it out, for herself.

 

[countryboy]

If fat people allready know that, then it is obvious they need psychological help
to build up some discipline in their lives, so that they do not just go into a
depressed state because they are fat, they have to learn to do something about it, and
the answer 'is' the above, excercise and eat less, and eat properly.
Fat people are not victims, they are enemys of themselves, and they need to know
that enemy, and fight it off, saying they are victims brings on sympathy and
someone to lean on to feel sorry for them, that does not help them.

Most of us are in that exact same situation, but of various different states of
fatness, eg. for me is 'always' having to be aware, each and every day to monitor
what I eat, and how much, and sure, now that Xmas is over I see that during the month of december I have gained about 10 lbs, and also can't excercise much right
now because of sciatica, but I am on top of it 'right now', will check my eating
habits 'right now', will do everything I can to get rid of sciatica, right now,
and get myself back on track, and no one will talk me out of doing that, with
tempting foods, junk foods, too much food, etc., or, (and this one is common),
friends who are fat, who want company in that department, not different from drinking or smoking, I will part company from such people for my own good health.
I am also the mother of four daughters, and two grandaughters, and I want them to
see me as a good example of how to take care of one's body as they grow up and
older, if I walk around out of shape and dumpy, (which could happen to me, or
almost any older woman/man), they could do the same later on, and I don't want to
see any of them 'fat'. My oldest daughter is overweight, and has the disposition
of my husband, (italian), and gains weight very easily, and she will have to be
very careful with her body, as she is in late 40s now and seeing that the body
needs more attention.
Every opinion I have given above does not apply to those who have severe medical
problems, I am not a doctor, don't know those reasons why those persons would
be fat.

Talloola - I know where you're coming from. I fought a weight problem for around 25 or 30 years. I was fat during that time period, some times worse than others. When my older brother suffered a heart attack and underwent triple-bypass surgery some years back, I decided to pay a bit more attention to the subject. So I have been through it, and I know how hard it is. The only thing that I can offer is that I worked hard at trying to understand what I was eating (not just how much of it...I already knew about that!) and I was amazed at what I had actually been eating. I still eat like a 15 yr. old teenage with a bottomless pit for a stomach, but the types of foods have changed dramatically. Except at Christmas time! :roll:

Bottom line? It's not easy to just wave a magic wand and make things all better. A bit of knowledge is a great way to start...I do weigh about 40 lbs. less than I used to, and I don't exercise any more or less these days - still a "moderate" exerciser, I am, with walking being my favorite. A few simple changes in food intake really did the trick for me in the weight department, and I consider myself very lucky for it.

 

[JLM]

You can’t argue with evolution, countryboy. Evolution is survival of the fittest, and until very recently, it was the obese gene which was the fitter of the two. The abundance of food is fairly recent in origin. Until say a couple of hundred years ago, most people were involved in subsistence farming, food was scarce and expensive.

Why do you think people were skinnier in the old days, why obesity was not as prevalent in the old days? Do you think people were more knowledgeable, more responsible in old days? Don’t you believe it. In the old days, fatty foods, refined sugar etc. were just not available, or were very expensive. So people just couldn’t afford to eat rich food and get fat.

In the old days, when food was scarce, obesity was a distinct advantage. These days, with ready and cheap availability of food, obesity has become a liability, but historically it wasn’t so.

So you can mouth all the platitudes you like, eat less, eat better, exercise etc. (and that is all good advice, don’t get me wrong). However, the underlying reason why many people are prone to obesity lies in evolution.

Come on S.J. that's garbage and you know it. Obese has never been healthy or dominant- I agree with packing 10 extra lbs. in case of illness- but obese!!!!!!!!!- give your head a shake. People were skinnier years ago because they were no such things as engines and screws and wheels and clamps and dollies and elevators and telephones. Every thing you did hundreds of years ago burnt calories, lots of them. Obesity (in my mind) is just as much of a mental illness as a physical one. If the truth be known pills today are killing more people than they are curing, albeit there are some pills that are necessary and some conditions where pills are necessary. People are so averse to putting chemicals in the soil but they don't hesitate to load up their bodies with them. F*****g insanity.

 

[JLM]

"If it is so simple, if you claim that most people understand (and presumably agree with you), then why is there such a big problem with obesity? And not only with kids (though that is bad enough), but also with adults.L"

It's about the simplest thing you can do - try it for yourself lace up a pair of good boots, walk over to the nearest fairly steep hill and then walk up and down it until you are tired and tomorrow do it for a minute longer and so on until you get up to two hours, and I'll guarantee you you are in good shape and close to proper weight. Anyway don't argue with me anymore until you've accomplished this little endeavour.

 

[JLM]

What happens when you advertise all over the place then put a McDonalds, Burger King or Wendys in every mall?

Hey L.W. I just got an idea, tax the hell out of all junk food and those companies will either smarten up or go out of business, I couldn't really care less which way it goes.

 

[lone wolf]

Hey L.W. I just got an idea, tax the hell out of all junk food and those companies will either smarten up or go out of business, I couldn't really care less which way it goes.

I wonder how "do you want salad with that?" plays back at a drive-through window?

Closing them down would kill a lot of jobs and then there would be something else for the problem seekers to gripe about.

 

[talloola]

I wonder how "do you want salad with that?" plays back at a drive-through window?

Closing them down would kill a lot of jobs and then there would be something else for the problem seekers to gripe about.

If people would wise up, and 'not' go to those food outlets, that would close them
down, but people are lazy, love how things taste, don't think past their mouths,
and want things right now, so those fast food outlets take advantage of that,
hence, good profits.

 

[L Gilbert]

Ever heard of the term "analysis paralysis?" You appear to have a very negative approach to problem-solving. Coming up with reasons why things CAN'T be done vs. why they CAN be done gets you nowhere. Can you offer any solutions to the problem? I'm assuming you at least understand that a problem exists.

Some people have evolved to rationalise things when they don't have the gumption to do something about their problems. (Notice I didn't blanket label everyone, unlike Sir Joke seems to love doing. ).
The thing is people are different from each other. We each have our own "comfort zone" or "optimum weight zone". Some people have a low BFI, some have a large one and some have BFIs in the middle. I tend to hang around 18% BFI and wifey is usually around 12 or 14%. I can pack on 20 pounds easily and if I exercise, it doesn't stay fat, it goes to muscle. Wifey took 3 months to put on 12 pounds. Metabolism regulates body weight if you treat your body with respect. If you live a sedentary life, your metabolism slows and you pack it on. 200,000 years is plenty of time for humans to evolve differently from the hunter gatherer lifestyle. TenPenny was right on the basics. If you intake more than you use, your BFI goes up. If you exercise, it stabilizes according to your optimum metabolic rate. Intake = output and you stay the same unless you exercise, and that's when your bod converts from fats to proteins.
For the husband of an MD, Joke doesn't know much about humans. It's cause for quite a few chuckles. So is his propensity for spewing nonsense and expecting people to suck it up as Biblical gospel. lol
Here's a nifty little site I found:

http://home.fuse.net/clymer/bmi/

 

[L Gilbert]

ok I did mine, I lied. I'm not 18; lol I'm 14% and wifey is 12% BFI. My metabolic rate is almost 1000 below hers.

 

[taxslave]

What happens when you advertise all over the place then put a McDonalds, Burger King or Wendys in every mall?

Worse than that for a while they were putting pop and junk food machines in high schools for a %of the take.

 

[JLM]

I wonder how "do you want salad with that?" plays back at a drive-through window?

Closing them down would kill a lot of jobs and then there would be something else for the problem seekers to gripe about.

Or the jobs would just transfer to restaurants that sell, wholesome food, where the tips are better.............a win/win situation. :smile:

 

[SirJosephPorter]

So let me help you out here - if someone is not aware of the causes of a problem, and if those answers actually exist (which they do), then quite obviously the answer is to find a process of education to help them understand it. It would then become a matter of what information should be contained in that education, how it could be presented in the most effective manner, and likely much more.

When you talk to causes of the problem, you are on the right track, countryboy, but only partially. You agree that we must identify causes of the problem, OK so far. However, the cause of the problem is not food, as you seem to think. Food is the symptom, one has to find out what causes the person to overeat.

Your attitude is very simplistic, like telling an alcoholic that excess of alcohol is bad for you, don’t drink to excess. How does that help the alcoholic? He already knows that excess of alcohol is bad for you, he wants to know what he can do to stop drinking.

It is the same with food. If you tell fat people which foods are nutritious, which foods to eat, which to avoid etc., that is nonsense, they already know that. That is the easy part. The difficult, and important part is to answer the question, what causes a particular person to overeat? And there is not one answer, it depends upon the person, upon his individual circumstances. A person may overeat due to stress, as a means of stress release, because he is bored, because he is constantly in contact with food, because of childhood trauma, it may be due to child abuse, spousal abuse, there may be several reasons.

Telling them just to stop eating, or eating sensibly is nonsense. You remind me of Nancy Reagan, she came up with a brilliant, foolproof solution to the drug problem, it didn’t cost USA a penny, it was much admired by the conservatives. Her solution? The slogan ‘just say no’. Your advice to fat people (eat right, don’t eat to excess, exercise etc.) falls in the same category.

As I said, it s a complex problem, solution will be different for each individual. Just telling them to eat right and exercise won’t solve a thing, they already know that. In fact, it hasn’t solved a thing, that is why we have such a horrendous problem at present.

In this discussion, I'm trying to help seek solutions. Why are you in it?

Oh, I am here just for the fun of it.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Every opinion I have given above does not apply to those who have severe medical
problems, I am not a doctor, don't know those reasons why those persons would
be fat.

Here you have touched on the nub of the problem, talloola. People have different reasons to be fat. And unless these reasons are identified, it is nonsense to tell them to eat right, exercise etc. These are bromides, with them almost everybody is familiar.

But unless and until somebody goes to the root of the problem, finds out what causes him or her to overeat, just trying to exercise self control in eating and regular exercise won’t really get a person anywhere.

As I have said all along, it is a very complex problem. It is not as simple as telling the fat people to eat right, eat less and exercise.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

"If it is so simple, if you claim that most people understand (and presumably agree with you), then why is there such a big problem with obesity? And not only with kids (though that is bad enough), but also with adults.L"

It's about the simplest thing you can do - try it for yourself lace up a pair of good boots, walk over to the nearest fairly steep hill and then walk up and down it until you are tired and tomorrow do it for a minute longer and so on until you get up to two hours, and I'll guarantee you you are in good shape and close to proper weight. Anyway don't argue with me anymore until you've accomplished this little endeavour.

You don’t say! And you think people don’t know that? If it was that simple, we won’t have any obesity problem.

As I said, your attitude and that of a few others is very simplistic, like telling an alcoholic not to drink alcohol. Alcoholism is not an alcohol problem, it is a psychological problem. It is the same with obesity. One has to go to the root of the problem, find out what is causing a particular person to overeat, and try to attack the cause of obesity, rather than the symptom (attacking the symptom would be eat right, exercise etc.).

Once the cause of the problem is tackled, the person on his own will change his/her eating habits, exercise etc, and bring down the weight, nobody has to tell him that.

 

[lone wolf]

Peer pressure? Self esteem? Addiction? You just go right ahead and find the cure. I don't think you'll ever reach anyone by talking down to them.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I couldn't care less about middle east countries admiring fat
women because it shows that the husband is successful.

All of those explanations are ridiculous, and just proves again
that the women are like any other possession, and not an
individual within her own right.

If she likes herself 'fat', 'just because', then good for her.
Nothing to do with anyone else. When she becomes diabetic, or
her body begins to break down because of weight, then she can
figure it out, for herself.

Diebetes is not much of a problem in many third world countries, talloola. Life expectancy being low, a woman would usually die of something else (cholera, typhoid, being eaten by a crocodile etc.) long before she would develop diabetes.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Every thing you did hundreds of years ago burnt calories, lots of them. Obesity (in my mind) is just as much of a mental illness as a physical one. If the truth be known pills today are killing more people than they are curing, albeit there are some pills that are necessary and some conditions where pills are necessary. People are so averse to putting chemicals in the soil but they don't hesitate to load up their bodies with them. F*****g insanity.

Quite so, JLM. All the more reason why somebody with slow metabolism was at an advantage compared to somebody with fast metabolism. Physical activity was intense in old days, food was relatively scarce. So those who metabolized calories slowly lived longer, could live through famines, those who metabolized calories quickly could not survive the famines and died out.

Slow metabolism is what causes obesity today. The obesity gene, the gene that was an evolutionary advantage (ability to burn calories slowly and to store fat on the body during the days of feasting, so that it may be burned during the days of famine), has now become a liability. Skinny people (or people with fast metabolism, if out prefer) could not survive at the same rate as obese people (or those with slow metabolism) and as a result most of the population today has slow metabolism and problems with obesity.

 

[JLM]

Here you have touched on the nub of the problem, talloola. People have different reasons to be fat. And unless these reasons are identified, it is nonsense to tell them to eat right, exercise etc. These are bromides, with them almost everybody is familiar.

But unless and until somebody goes to the root of the problem, finds out what causes him or her to overeat, just trying to exercise self control in eating and regular exercise won’t relay get a person anywhere.

As I have said all along, it is a very complex problem. It is not as simple as telling the fat people to eat right, eat less and exercise.

While the psychology may differ from person to person, Countryboy has already explained the mechanics, in a nutshell what you put in your mouth makes you fat and what you fail to do physically lets the fat increase. The cure is simple eat less and exercise more, and the beauty of that is you can also do it while fantasizing and telling yourself lies.

 

[L Gilbert]

When you talk to causes of the problem, you are on the right track, countryboy, but only partially. You agree that we must identify causes of the problem, OK so far. However, the cause of the problem is not food, as you seem to think. Food is the symptom, one has to find out what causes the person to overeat.

Your attitude is very simplistic, like telling an alcoholic that excess of alcohol is bad for you, don’t drink to excess. How does that help the alcoholic? He already knows that excess of alcohol is bad for you, he wants to know what he can do to stop drinking.

It is the same with food. If you tell fat people which foods are nutritious, which foods to eat, which to avoid etc., that is nonsense, they already know that. That is the easy part. The difficult, and important part is to answer the question, what causes a particular person to overeat? And there is not one answer, it depends upon the person, upon his individual circumstances. A person may overeat due to stress, as a means of stress release, because he is bored, because he is constantly in contact with food, because of childhood trauma, it may be due to child abuse, spousal abuse, there may be several reasons.

Telling them just to stop eating, or eating sensibly is nonsense. You remind me of Nancy Reagan, she came up with a brilliant, foolproof solution to the drug problem, it didn’t cost USA a penny, it was much admired by the conservatives. Her solution? The slogan ‘just say no’. Your advice to fat people (eat right, don’t eat to excess, exercise etc.) falls in the same category.

As I said, it s a complex problem, solution will be different for each individual. Just telling them to eat right and exercise won’t solve a thing, they already know that. In fact, it hasn’t solved a thing, that is why we have such a horrendous problem at present.

:roll:Not everyone is a big blob of neuroses and psychoses like you, you know. Some people just like to be sedentary and eat food that tastes good.