Poll:- life better now or in 1959?

[SirJosephPorter]

50's most women stayed home to be with the children and have that sort of partnership
in a marriage, but those decisions were not because women were in slavery, it's because
society had enjoyed that type of life for many years, .

Here I agree with you. I have already said that those were the tranquil, peaceful time, everybody knew their place. Women knew that their place was at the feet of their Lord and Master and they liked it that way. They had not yet begun to be dissatisfied with their empty, unfulfilled lifestyle, that was still a few years into the future.

, and in the 50's that slowly began
to change, some women worked part time, some full time, but the choices were there,
women were just slow to grab the change and run with it, and we are creatures of
habit, and our stay at home life was comfortable and what we were used to, and
some did not want to change (me), and some were glad to go to work, as the money
was there to be made, and those couples had much more money coming into the
house than we did, it was a CHOICE, you talk as though we were being held down
like a 3rd world country. I was living the life, I was there, I remember what it was
like. Some men didn't want their wives to work, that was their problem, men also
were in a process of changing, and some liked the fact that their wife could bring
in extra money

That may be your experience, Talloola and I am not trying to minimize it. I have no doubt that your memory is correct. However, that is anecdotal evidence. I have a running disagreement with JLM about this, I think anecdotal evidence is terrible evidence, one has to look at statistics. Anecdotal evidence is not scientific evidence.

Unfortunately what you say was not borne out by what happened in the 70s and 80, when women were trying to enter all walks of life, not just the kitchen and the bedroom. If situation was as you say, they would have just walked into universities, factories, corporations etc. would have got the education, would have become doctors, lawyers, busyness executives etc., without any trouble.

But it did not happen that way. Feminists had to fight hard for each and every gain they made, they had to fight every inch of the way. They were opposed by the white male establishment at each and every step. They had to fight to get into the universities, they had to fight to get into the companies they had to fight for equal pay for equal work, they had to fight to get equal credit (same as man) and so on. It was a struggle all the way.

Women had to fight to raise the awareness of spousal abuse, sexual harassment in the workplace etc. I remember when the subject of wife battering was first mentioned in the Canadian House of Commons, it was greeted with laughter, to most MPs, it was some kind of a joke.

Women’s struggle of equality was fully as prolonged, as difficult as painful as the struggle by blacks for equality (of course, conservatives would claim that blacks had full equality way back n the 40s and 50s, that Civil Rights act, Voting Rights Act etc. were not necessary and Rosa Parks and MLK were simply trouble makers). It started in late 60s, continued at full speed into 70s and 80s, and it still continues to this day, to some extent.

So your personal experience notwithstanding that is not the experience of most women, if it had been women’s movement would not have been necessary.

 

[JLM]

India’s certainly has, Cliffy. I remember reading in elementary school that India’s population was 350 million.

And China's population was 400 million and the U.S. had a 131 million and Canada had 14 million, times have changed, but part of it could be because people have learned to count higher.........:lol::lol::lol:

 

[TenPenny]

I have a running disagreement with JLM about this, I think anecdotal evidence is terrible evidence, one has to look at statistics. Anecdotal evidence is not scientific evidence.

What if it's anecdotal evidence on television?

 

[JLM]

Here I agree with you. I have already said that those were the tranquil, peaceful time, everybody knew their place. Women knew that their place was at the feet of their Lord and Master and they liked it that way. They had not yet begun to be dissatisfied with their empty, unfulfilled lifestyle, that was still a few years into the future.



That may be your experience, Talloola and I am not trying to minimize it. I have no doubt that your memory is correct. However, that is anecdotal evidence. I have a running disagreement with JLM about this, I think anecdotal evidence is terrible evidence, one has to look at statistics. Anecdotal evidence is not scientific evidence.

Unfortunately what you say was not borne out by what happened in the 70s and 80, when women were trying to enter all walks of life, not just the kitchen and the bedroom. If situation was as you say, they would have just walked into universities, factories, corporations etc. would have got the education, would have become doctors, lawyers, busyness executives etc., without any trouble.

But it did not happen that way. Feminists had to fight hard for each and every gain they made, they had to fight every inch of the way. They were opposed by the white male establishment at each and every step. They had to fight to get into the universities, they had to fight to get into the companies they had to fight for equal pay for equal work, they had to fight to get equal credit (same as man) and so on. It was a struggle all the way.

Women had to fight to raise the awareness of spousal abuse, sexual harassment in the workplace etc. I remember when the subject of wife battering was first mentioned in the Canadian House of Commons, it was greeted with laughter, to most MPs, it was some kind of a joke.

Women’s struggle of equality was fully as prolonged, as difficult as painful as the struggle by blacks for equality (of course, conservatives would claim that blacks had full equality way back n the 40s and 50s, that Civil Rights act, Voting Rights Act etc. were not necessary and Rosa Parks and MLK were simply trouble makers). It started in late 60s, continued at full speed into 70s and 80s, and it still continues to this day, to some extent.

So your personal experience notwithstanding that is not the experience of most women, if it had been women’s movement would not have been necessary.

Anecdotal evidence is better than statistics when you know the person telling it is truthful.

 

[JLM]

What if it's anecdotal evidence on television?

Only good if Lou Dobbs is reporting it. :lol:

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Anecdotal evidence is better than statistics when you know the person telling it is truthful.

That makes no difference, JLM. The person may be telling the truth, but that is his/her own experience, nothing more. Statistics tells us the overall picture.

Thus if nationally crime is going down (and it is), but if it is going up in your own area, you may think that it is going up, and you would be right. But for yourself only, not for the whole nation.

So anecdotal evidence means nothing, it is not accepted by science.

Anyway, can’t stay here for long today, bye.

 

[TenPenny]

Only good if Lou Dobbs is reporting it. :lol:

Or if it's a cheesy sitcom, that makes it REAL.

 

[lone wolf]

Yes Joey, you can be right. Mmkay? Now move on

 

[talloola]

Here I agree with you. I have already said that those were the tranquil, peaceful time, everybody knew their place. Women knew that their place was at the feet of their Lord and Master and they liked it that way. They had not yet begun to be dissatisfied with their empty, unfulfilled lifestyle, that was still a few years into the future.



That may be your experience, Talloola and I am not trying to minimize it. I have no doubt that your memory is correct. However, that is anecdotal evidence. I have a running disagreement with JLM about this, I think anecdotal evidence is terrible evidence, one has to look at statistics. Anecdotal evidence is not scientific evidence.

Unfortunately what you say was not borne out by what happened in the 70s and 80, when women were trying to enter all walks of life, not just the kitchen and the bedroom. If situation was as you say, they would have just walked into universities, factories, corporations etc. would have got the education, would have become doctors, lawyers, busyness executives etc., without any trouble.

But it did not happen that way. Feminists had to fight hard for each and every gain they made, they had to fight every inch of the way. They were opposed by the white male establishment at each and every step. They had to fight to get into the universities, they had to fight to get into the companies they had to fight for equal pay for equal work, they had to fight to get equal credit (same as man) and so on. It was a struggle all the way.

Women had to fight to raise the awareness of spousal abuse, sexual harassment in the workplace etc. I remember when the subject of wife battering was first mentioned in the Canadian House of Commons, it was greeted with laughter, to most MPs, it was some kind of a joke.

Women’s struggle of equality was fully as prolonged, as difficult as painful as the struggle by blacks for equality (of course, conservatives would claim that blacks had full equality way back n the 40s and 50s, that Civil Rights act, Voting Rights Act etc. were not necessary and Rosa Parks and MLK were simply trouble makers). It started in late 60s, continued at full speed into 70s and 80s, and it still continues to this day, to some extent.

So your personal experience notwithstanding that is not the experience of most women, if it had been women’s movement would not have been necessary.

There has always been a women's movement, much further back than the 50's & 60's,
which is a human movement to change society, which has been changing for hundreds
of years, and with every generation or year you want to address, there will always be
complaints, but life is life, and it's no different today, women and others still have to
push ahead, as governments and corporations will always push back.

I t will always be the strength of the 'masses' that moves progress along for the regular
folk which includes women, if people on the ground don't care, we will all be run over
by the corporations, the greedy, government and anybody who wants to walk over
others for their own gain, and it was no different in the 50's, (and don't forget we are
talking about l959, not l950, big difference.

My experience in life in l959, was very familiar to most people in that year, I was a
working young wife, and until we began our family we had two incomes, which made
life quite comfortable, and if we had continued that way, the money would have flowed
and our income would have allowed us to buy more property and begin to accumulate
wealth, it was a good time to make progress, BUT we chose to drop that extra income
when our kids began to arrive, and settle back and be responsible to our children and
make our payments, and NOT accumulate wealth, but the fun and interaction with
our children and each other because I was at home by far surpassed any extra money
we could have accumulated with me working and saving all of my paycheque.

I easily could have had the pre reaquisites to enter university with the marks I had
in school, the only thing that stopped me was money, my mother and I were alone,
she worked, and we made out just fine, but university was expensive, (just as it is today),
and we could not afford it, so it was usually the more wealthy families who sent
their kids off to university, (boys and girls), didn't matter. There were lots of girls
in university, as their parents had the bucks to put them there, just like the sons.
And many of those kids went there just to party, and wasted everyone's time.
No such thing as a student loan, but then, those loans put students in such big
debt, and now days many of those university graduates come out of university
owing hundreds of thousands of dollars, and CAN'T get a job, and if they do, they
have to spend years paying back the loan, and many of those loans never get paid
back, as the student does not fullfill the position he/she was trained to do, and the
money just isn't there to pay, I know some in that position.
The only thing that stopped women from moving forward as individuals was their
parents attitudes, (called old fashioned), as they balked at the attitudes of the kids
who had new fresh ideas and demanded more freedom, so with every generation
there are changes in attitude, but somewhere along the way, the changes overshot
common sense, and some of those (so called) old fashioned ideas were tossed aside
when they were very valuable and good, I'd like to see a few of them return.
Society and government have to change at the insistance of the masses, or they
won't get elected, that is what it's all about for politicians, me me me me.

 

[ironsides]

Other than the 1800% inflation, inaction on pollution, massive debt, degradation of food, devastation of natural surroundings and the family unit. I'd say we are way better off.

Yup, makes me all warm and comfy, but by your answer I think your intimating that were all still alive.

 

[JLM]

There has always been a women's movement, much further back than the 50's & 60's,
which is a human movement to change society, which has been changing for hundreds
of years, and with every generation or year you want to address, there will always be
complaints, but life is life, and it's no different today, women and others still have to
push ahead, as governments and corporations will always push back.

I t will always be the strength of the 'masses' that moves progress along for the regular
folk which includes women, if people on the ground don't care, we will all be run over
by the corporations, the greedy, government and anybody who wants to walk over
others for their own gain, and it was no different in the 50's, (and don't forget we are
talking about l959, not l950, big difference.

My experience in life in l959, was very familiar to most people in that year, I was a
working young wife, and until we began our family we had two incomes, which made
life quite comfortable, and if we had continued that way, the money would have flowed
and our income would have allowed us to buy more property and begin to accumulate
wealth, it was a good time to make progress, BUT we chose to drop that extra income
when our kids began to arrive, and settle back and be responsible to our children and
make our payments, and NOT accumulate wealth, but the fun and interaction with
our children and each other because I was at home by far surpassed any extra money
we could have accumulated with me working and saving all of my paycheque.

I easily could have had the pre reaquisites to enter university with the marks I had
in school, the only thing that stopped me was money, my mother and I were alone,
she worked, and we made out just fine, but university was expensive, (just as it is today),
and we could not afford it, so it was usually the more wealthy families who sent
their kids off to university, (boys and girls), didn't matter. There were lots of girls
in university, as their parents had the bucks to put them there, just like the sons.
And many of those kids went there just to party, and wasted everyone's time.
No such thing as a student loan, but then, those loans put students in such big
debt, and now days many of those university graduates come out of university
owing hundreds of thousands of dollars, and CAN'T get a job, and if they do, they
have to spend years paying back the loan, and many of those loans never get paid
back, as the student does not fullfill the position he/she was trained to do, and the
money just isn't there to pay, I know some in that position.
The only thing that stopped women from moving forward as individuals was their
parents attitudes, (called old fashioned), as they balked at the attitudes of the kids
who had new fresh ideas and demanded more freedom, so with every generation
there are changes in attitude, but somewhere along the way, the changes overshot
common sense, and some of those (so called) old fashioned ideas were tossed aside
when they were very valuable and good, I'd like to see a few of them return.
Society and government have to change at the insistance of the masses, or they
won't get elected, that is what it's all about for politicians, me me me me.

You've nailed it precisely Talloola. The cause of our problems to day has a lot to do with people/corporations who know better. Years ago, my son was able to get a VISA card, w/o having to pass any means test, at a time in his life when the total sum of his mentality was partying and working if he felt like it. He'd never had a loan of $10 in his life and the bank issued him this card with a $1000 limit........well the rest is history and you can guess it.

 

[AnnaG]

Other than the 1800% inflation, inaction on pollution, massive debt, degradation of food, devastation of natural surroundings and the family unit. I'd say we are way better off.

Among other no-so-nice things, yup.

 

[JLM]

Other than the 1800% inflation, inaction on pollution, massive debt, degradation of food, devastation of natural surroundings and the family unit. I'd say we are way better off.

Not to mention 100% increase in tbe chance of being mugged while walking to church on Sunday morning.

 

[TenPenny]

Not to mention 100% increase in tbe chance of being mugged while walking to church on Sunday morning.

Actually, my chances of being mugged walking to church have gone down 100%, since I don't go to church any more.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Or if it's a cheesy sitcom, that makes it REAL.

Quite right, TenPenny. Sometimes sitcoms can reveal an amazing amount of truth.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Other than the 1800% inflation, inaction on pollution, massive debt, degradation of food, devastation of natural surroundings and the family unit. I'd say we are way better off.

Say what, Petros? 1800% inflation? Do you live in Zimbabwe?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

There has always been a women's movement, much further back than the 50's & 60's,
which is a human movement to change society,.

None to speak off, talloola. After the movement to get vote for women, the women movement, if at all present was pretty much dormant and inactive. It got new life after the Black Civil Rights movement. Indeed, after seeing the success of Civil rights movement, other minorities felt encouraged to speak up, to demand equal rights. Civil Rights movement in turn spawned the Feminist movement and the gay rights movement.

My experience in life in l959, was very familiar to most people in that year, I was a
working young wife, and until we began our family we had two incomes, which made
life quite comfortable, and if we had continued that way, the money would have flowed
and our income would have allowed us to buy more property and begin to accumulate
wealth, it was a good time to make progress, BUT we chose to drop that extra income
when our kids began to arrive, and settle back and be responsible to our children and
make our payments, and NOT accumulate wealth.

That was the prevailing attitude in those days. A woman either did not work, stayed home right after high school, or if she was working, she quit her job after getting married (her husband would feel less of a man if she worked outside home). If she still kept working after marriage, she almost certainly quit after the first baby came along.

There were also societal pressures to do that, many companies simply would not hire married women. It was also the official policy of some companies that a woman must quit after she got married.

I easily could have had the pre reaquisites to enter university with the marks I had
in school, the only thing that stopped me was money, my mother and I were alone,
she worked, and we made out just fine, but university was expensive, (just as it is today),
and we could not afford it, so it was usually the more wealthy families who sent
their kids off to university, (boys and girls), didn't matter. There were lots of girls
in university, as their parents had the bucks to put them there, just like the sons..

There indeed were women in the universities, but mostly in subjects like arts, Social Studies, etc., very few in hard sciences (Physics, Chemistry, Engineering, Law, Medicine, accounting etc.). And those who did go to university, their primary purpose was to get married. They were more interested in getting a ‘Mrs.’ Than getting a B.A.

The only thing that stopped women from moving forward as individuals was their
parents attitudes, (called old fashioned), as they balked at the attitudes of the kids
who had new fresh ideas and demanded more freedom

That is not the only thing that stopped women Talloola, what also stopped them was their own attitude, they were as much a product of the society as anybody else. They also firmly believed that a woman’s place was in the home, that she did not belong in the workplace.

but somewhere along the way, the changes overshot
common sense, and some of those (so called) old fashioned ideas were tossed aside
when they were very valuable and good, I'd like to see a few of them return.
Society and government have to change at the insistance of the masses, or they
won't get elected, that is what it's all about for politicians, me me me me.

I don’t think the changes overshot at all, I think society has made substantial progress towards equality in the last 50 years. As to going back to the ‘good old days’, sorry, you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. When you give people a taste of freedom, a taste for equal rights, they are not going to go back to the unequal, unjust society of 50 years ago.

 

[petros]

Say what, Petros? 1800% inflation? Do you live in Zimbabwe?

What was a silver dollar worth in 1959 and what is that silver dollar worth today?

 

[petros]

11/27-17:00

1.0619US
0.9418CDN
19.38 Oz Ag
+0.06

+0.31%

SJP Few years back I posted a thread about silver and gold coins being put back in circulation.

Do you recall the price of those two minerals at that time (3 years ago)?

 

[petros]

11/27-17:00

1.0619US
0.9418CDN
19.38 Oz Ag
+0.06

+0.31%

SJP Few years back I posted a thread about silver and gold coins being put back in circulation.

Do you recall the price of those two minerals at that time (3 years ago)?

In just the past year our dollar would have nearly doubled in value.......