Only exaggerating a bit? That's an understatement.
Could also be suicide by IDF.
Either way, Iran is not Palestine.
Enough farting around on Iran & Nukes
- Thread starter Goober
- Start date
Could also be suicide by IDF.
Either way, Iran is not Palestine.
The First Gulf War.
Around 150 allied dead.
Well over 100,000 Iraqi dead.
You would think that the Palestinians would grow something faintly resembling a brain and throw out Hamas.........oh yeah, I forgot.
No elections.
Unlike Israel.
jsooia
Not off topic at all - Iran is the main supplier of weapons to Hamas and Hezbollah - As to the total of Palestinians killed in the last conflict - How many were Hamas -
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It's a war?
Remember the Serbs? Rwanda? Pol Pot? Kuwait? Stalin's Famine? Turkish Armenians?
But this thread is about Iran and nukes, not Israel or Palestine.
Ok let's talk about Iran.
Iran isn't the problem. It's not even confirmed that Iran are even developing nukes. The third largest oil reserve in the world is in Iran. So you can see why the American's are itching to control this region and finding anything reason to go to war.
"We will never start a war. We have no intention of going to war with any state." Ayatollah Ali Khameni.
The American media doesn't like to focus on Khameni even though he is the one with all the power in Iran.
Because if they were to do that American's might see Iran isn't actually a evil country bent on nuking the entire western world.
Khameni made an offer in 2006 to President Bush
If the Americans
-Removed Iran from the Axis of Evil
-Did not attack Iran (guaranteed security)
-Lift Sanctions
-Allow Europe to resume investing in Iran
Khameni would approve of
-Full nuclear inspections
-Withdraw support to Hezbollah and Hamas
-Normalize relations with Israel if they move from occupied territories
A swiss diplomat delivered the offer to Washington and was censured for even acknowledging it. The U.S chose escalation over peaceful resolution.
Iran isn't the problem. It's not even confirmed that Iran are even developing nukes. The third largest oil reserve in the world is in Iran. So you can see why the American's are itching to control this region and finding anything reason to go to war.
"We will never start a war. We have no intention of going to war with any state." Ayatollah Ali Khameni.
The American media doesn't like to focus on Khameni even though he is the one with all the power in Iran.
Because if they were to do that American's might see Iran isn't actually a evil country bent on nuking the entire western world.
Khameni made an offer in 2006 to President Bush
If the Americans
-Removed Iran from the Axis of Evil
-Did not attack Iran (guaranteed security)
-Lift Sanctions
-Allow Europe to resume investing in Iran
Khameni would approve of
-Full nuclear inspections
-Withdraw support to Hezbollah and Hamas
-Normalize relations with Israel if they move from occupied territories
A swiss diplomat delivered the offer to Washington and was censured for even acknowledging it. The U.S chose escalation over peaceful resolution.
jsooia1st off - No one trusts Iran - They signed a document a month or so ago agreeing to transferring their uranium to Russia then to France for turning it into material used for medical isotopes etc - They then backed offOccupied territories - Exactly what does this mean on defensible borders for Israel- Nuke Inspections - Iran would still have the ability to enrich uranium up to weapons grade - and who trusts the Iranians - Do you????Iranian leaders have all made numerous comments on the destruction of Israel -Then you have the idiots that think Israel would allow all Palestinians to return to Israel - then the Israeli's would be a minority in their own country. Now who would expect Israel to buy into that.
No, Iran hasn't made any comments in regards to the destruction of Israel. It's again blown out of proportion by the American media.
No I don't trust Iran's government. They aren't looking out for the best interests of their citizens. Exact same way I feel about the American government, don't trust them one iota.
The difference is one is trying to control the world, (U.S.A) and is waging illegal wars for oil and dominance.
No I don't trust Iran's government. They aren't looking out for the best interests of their citizens. Exact same way I feel about the American government, don't trust them one iota.
The difference is one is trying to control the world, (U.S.A) and is waging illegal wars for oil and dominance.
I simply don't believe it.
You have a link for this???
And please define "occupied territories"......Hezbollah does not consider the border line drawn between Lebanon and Israel by the United Nations to be valid....Hamas considers all of Israel to be occupied territory........both are puppets of Iran........so much for withdrawing from Iran's idea of "occupied territories".
And Iran is led by lying lunatics that habitually jail, torture and murder disidents and journalists............including Canadians.
No you don't because you believe everything in the American media which is jewish owned, a little bit bias wouldn't you think?
Here's a link
Seyyed Ali Khamenei
As well
YouTube - Iran is not the problem pt 1
Sounds similar to the Bush administration.
Iran will come out of any conflict with the Nato/UN, and the U.S. a totally destroyed country. The Muslim world just will never learn that they will lose 1000+ to 1 as a norm if they go to war. "War is hell", they never consider the consequences before attacking anybody. Block heads..
IS: Your statement sounds like you support Iran possessing nukes so they could defend themselves from a US/Israeli slaughter. I'm assuming you consider all human life equal.
Please post a link which supports your statement that "they (Iran?) never consider the consequences before attacking anyone". When did Iran attack someone?
Maybe I misinterpreted your post. By "they" did you mean the US and Israel? Both these nations have repeatedly attacked others without provocation or considering the long term consequences, international laws, treaties and conventions.
Given the constant American/Israeli threats of mass slaughter, and American record regarding nations with oil they don't like, I suspect Iran is interested in possessing a nuclear deterrent, but not necessarily a nuclear arsenal. All evidence so far indicates Iran intends or has developed a break out capability. What that means is that they intend to take their nuclear weapon research and civilian nuclear programs as far as they can without violating international laws and treaties yet develop and maintain a capability to produce nuclear weapons within a short period of time. Most likely, they have this ability now. If Iran really was interested in possessing a nuclear arsenal, they would have built and tested a prototype weapon by now.
Iran probably has a break out capability regarding chemical weapons. Evidence exists which supports claims that Iran used CWs against Iraq during the 1980's. (In response to years of Iraq CW attacks) In the 90's Iran signed the Chemical Weapons Convention and probably eliminated their CW arsenals. But Iran likely maintained a break out ability to convert dual use facilities/technologies to CW production with short notice.
Any attack against Iran with non-conventional weapons would probably result in Iran possessing chemical weapons within days/weeks and nukes within months/year.
I think everyone can agree that Zionist regime of Israel and the Islamic Fundamentalist regime of Iran share mutual hostility and distrust. But I doubt Iran seeks direct conflict with Israel. Instead they seem content to develop ever more effective man portable munitions and put them in the hands of Israel's insurgent adversaries. Its called fighting a proxy war. Both the US and Israel have used this tactic against their adversaries and evidence exists which supports Iranian claims that the US at least arms Iran's insurgent adversaries.
Everything else is smoke and mirrors. Neither side wants nor can afford a war. Both Iran and Big Oil benefit from high oil prices caused by tension. Israel/US and Iran will continue to fight a proxy war. Since Israel is surrounded by more hostile people, I'd say this strategy plays to Iran's advantage. Israel has more pull than Iran in diplomacy and media manipulation. Israel uses its influence in the US, France and the UK to impose economic sanctions on Iran and fills the MSM with anti-Iran propaganda. Russia is trying to play both sides off the other and turn a profit. (Russian companies are Iran's main nuclear energy contractors and Iran buys Russian arms) China has invested billions in Iran and owns rights to substantial reserves of Iranian oil and gas. Any move by the US against Iran would likely result in China using its considerable economic strength to crush the US economically by dumping trillions of US dollars and making the US dollar worthless.
By the way, Israel was created after the area was ethnically cleansed of most non-Jews. Those people and their descendants continue to be the world's biggest and longest lasting (60 years) refugee crisis. Solve that problem and there will be peace in the middle east.
I am against war. I am also against hypocrisy. If any nation can possess nukes, then inevitably most nations will possess nukes. We are talking about a technology which is now 64 years old.
I believe all human life is equal. I am equally shocked by senseless death and destruction regardless of the nationality of the victims.
Please post a link which supports your statement that "they (Iran?) never consider the consequences before attacking anyone". When did Iran attack someone?
Maybe I misinterpreted your post. By "they" did you mean the US and Israel? Both these nations have repeatedly attacked others without provocation or considering the long term consequences, international laws, treaties and conventions.
Given the constant American/Israeli threats of mass slaughter, and American record regarding nations with oil they don't like, I suspect Iran is interested in possessing a nuclear deterrent, but not necessarily a nuclear arsenal. All evidence so far indicates Iran intends or has developed a break out capability. What that means is that they intend to take their nuclear weapon research and civilian nuclear programs as far as they can without violating international laws and treaties yet develop and maintain a capability to produce nuclear weapons within a short period of time. Most likely, they have this ability now. If Iran really was interested in possessing a nuclear arsenal, they would have built and tested a prototype weapon by now.
Iran probably has a break out capability regarding chemical weapons. Evidence exists which supports claims that Iran used CWs against Iraq during the 1980's. (In response to years of Iraq CW attacks) In the 90's Iran signed the Chemical Weapons Convention and probably eliminated their CW arsenals. But Iran likely maintained a break out ability to convert dual use facilities/technologies to CW production with short notice.
Any attack against Iran with non-conventional weapons would probably result in Iran possessing chemical weapons within days/weeks and nukes within months/year.
I think everyone can agree that Zionist regime of Israel and the Islamic Fundamentalist regime of Iran share mutual hostility and distrust. But I doubt Iran seeks direct conflict with Israel. Instead they seem content to develop ever more effective man portable munitions and put them in the hands of Israel's insurgent adversaries. Its called fighting a proxy war. Both the US and Israel have used this tactic against their adversaries and evidence exists which supports Iranian claims that the US at least arms Iran's insurgent adversaries.
Everything else is smoke and mirrors. Neither side wants nor can afford a war. Both Iran and Big Oil benefit from high oil prices caused by tension. Israel/US and Iran will continue to fight a proxy war. Since Israel is surrounded by more hostile people, I'd say this strategy plays to Iran's advantage. Israel has more pull than Iran in diplomacy and media manipulation. Israel uses its influence in the US, France and the UK to impose economic sanctions on Iran and fills the MSM with anti-Iran propaganda. Russia is trying to play both sides off the other and turn a profit. (Russian companies are Iran's main nuclear energy contractors and Iran buys Russian arms) China has invested billions in Iran and owns rights to substantial reserves of Iranian oil and gas. Any move by the US against Iran would likely result in China using its considerable economic strength to crush the US economically by dumping trillions of US dollars and making the US dollar worthless.
By the way, Israel was created after the area was ethnically cleansed of most non-Jews. Those people and their descendants continue to be the world's biggest and longest lasting (60 years) refugee crisis. Solve that problem and there will be peace in the middle east.
I am against war. I am also against hypocrisy. If any nation can possess nukes, then inevitably most nations will possess nukes. We are talking about a technology which is now 64 years old.
I believe all human life is equal. I am equally shocked by senseless death and destruction regardless of the nationality of the victims.
Yeah, I found a reference before you replied.....
Let's assume for a moment this is not Iranian propaganda, but is the unadulterated truth.
If it is even true, no wonder the Israelis and Americans rejected it.
Israel, in the mood to placate Hezbollah and Lebanon, decided to leave Lebanon......as Hezbollah claimed their only reason for existence was the Israeli presence there. To ensure Lebanon's (Hezbollah) satisfaction with the deal, the Israeli's asked the United Nations to draw the line. They did, and the war continues.....because Hezbollah claims the Shebaa Farms area is part of lebanon, and is still under Israeli control.........The Shebaa farms is about 8 square miles of area, strategically valuable to the Israelis.....that was part of Syria's Golan Heights until after the Israeli's took it in 1967.........the Syrian's ceded the land they did not control to Lebanon, just to keep'em in the fight. Israel can not trust Iran's puppet..........nor Iran.
Shebaa farms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Additionally, Israel will not surrender the Golan Heights.....and I don't blame them.
The Golan Height look down on a section of Israel that is less than 10 miles wide......They are strategically valuable, and the Israelis took them at great cost in the 1967 war.......and fought a desperate and very costly battle to hold
them is the almost-disasterous 1973 Yom Kippur War........without the Golan Heights as barrier and buffer to Syria, Israel would most certainly have lost that war, and been utterly destroyed. That is why Israel annexed the Heights, they are part of Israel now.........Iran can not negotiate for Syria, and I doubt Israel will leave the back door open to Syria ever again. A return to pre-67 borders is not within Iran's power to negotiate or garauntee.........even if Iran could be trusted.
Golan Heights & West Bank under occupation after 1967
Iran has used several organizations to carry on proxy war with Israel for decades.....Hezbollah and Hamas are but two of those.....if Iran refuses to accept responsibility for encouraging, arming, in fact directing these organizations.....claiming they were independent, how can they be trusted?????
Yes, they say they will stand down their support......but nothing stops them from claiming the terror organizations have gone rogue....Iran's record of living up to deals is not good.
And Israel abandoned Gaza, withdrawing completely, forcing out their own settlers, leaving it to the Palestinians, in the hope that the model there could be followed in the West Bank.......thus creating a de facto Palestinian State.....and what happened? Instead of Gaza stabilizing, becoming an area of hope....Hamas took over and has used it as a staging area for the continuing struggle to destroy Israel. Iran is Hamas, and the Palestinians, under Iranian control through Hamas, shot themselves in the foot yet again.
What you don't understand is that Iran has proven over and over again that it can not be trusted, that it cares not at ALL for the Palestinians (Persians and Arabs historically hate each other), it just uses them as a club to beat Israel....undermining each and every opportunity for them to find peace.
No deal possible is the correct response.
By the way, the United States has freedom of speech, much more so than most any nation on the planet, including Canada...........when you claim the entire US media is controlled by the Jews you venture very close to the genocidal nuts that wave The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and deny the Holocaust happened.......while in reality their only regret is the Nazis didn't get them all....
Just a word of friendly advice in the debate....if you want to be taken seriously, avoid the Jew-baiting rhetoric.
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Israel left Lebanon for the same the US left Vietnam, the US will leave Iraq and why Canada will eventually leave Afghanistan. After a while the electorate gets tired of pointless war, senseless death and destruction.
If Hezbollah had not effectively resisted Israel, the Israelis would have done the same thing in Southern Lebanon as what they do now in the West Bank and Golan Heights: Use force to make people flee their homes, declare the homes abandoned, raze them to the ground, build Jewish only settlements and build walls around the concentration camps of ethnic cleansing victims.
If Hezbollah had not effectively resisted Israel, the Israelis would have done the same thing in Southern Lebanon as what they do now in the West Bank and Golan Heights: Use force to make people flee their homes, declare the homes abandoned, raze them to the ground, build Jewish only settlements and build walls around the concentration camps of ethnic cleansing victims.
EaO, your hatred is showing......
Perhaps you would like to consider what happened when Israel left Gaza.....taking Israeli settlers out by force??????
Or, as described below, what happened when Israel decided to give ground to eastablish peace on the Lebanese border?
Israel will NOT be left in peace........so war is her only alternative.
Even your own words admit these things are speculation, so why even bring them up? Nuclear weapons are not defensive weapons, they are mean to explode outside your country, that means a very $ophi$ticated delivery system. The only purpose of exploding those things on your own land is to make it useless 'to the enemy'.
There is certainly proof that the US is still developing chem/bio weapons. The anthrax in '01 came from a military lab. You don't develop those weapons just so you will never use them.
I would bet that we even have weapons that are banned and in a civilian revolt killing civilians (by various means)would be allowed.
Since you don't know the fats on your speculation you assume they are closely following the West's moves. The West is geared for wars fought in foreign lands, Iran seems to be focused on defensive systems. Speculate on this, how much less would they buy if the US and Israel was not beating war drums constantly.
So any resistance to an foreign army on another Nation's soil is the fault of Hezbollah, that form of warfare is ancient. That is what 'patriots' do, fight foreign armies. If you weren't an invading army attacks on you might not be happening. If you are willing to 'open fire' on somebody don't get your shorts in a knot when they shoot back.
So what, those lands are still 'spoils of war', if security was an issue it would be a perfect spot for some UN spotters (with some very hi-tech equip that can trace even small rockets from impact back to launch point)
lol, when Iraq went to annex Kuwait the West and Israel made quite a big deal over it. This is so laughable, one country saying to another country we need this piec of your lane because it helps us with military strikes against you and that prevents you from being able to set up something that we cannot overpower.
You come up with another point that leaves me confused on just how fair-minded you are.
The US can openly militarily support Israel with unlimited weapons, from, etc. , yet the one who those weapons are being used against are not allowed to try and find any weapons to defend (when within the borders of your country)themselves with. Not that Iran is doing that but why would they not have that right. The US isn't condemned for supplying Israel. Condemned in that several countries are stating several times a day that they should be invaded for supporting Israel.
The whole Iraq/Iran war was a war against Iran by the US who was using Iraq as a proxy military force, complete with all forms of weapons.
That would seem to make the UN mandate that established a homeland for the Jews null and void in that the top priority was the same one that the Balfour declaration mentioned. The existing people who lived there were not to be uprooted or suffer in any manner from that mandate.
Some quotes by Ayatollah Khomeini (some are just odd, some are pretty foul):
“A man can have sex with animals such as sheeps, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village; however, selling the meat to the next door village should be fine.”
“America is the great Satan, the wounded snake.”
“This regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.”
“A man can have sex with animals such as sheeps, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village; however, selling the meat to the next door village should be fine.”
“An Islamic regime must be serious in every field,”
“There are no jokes in Islam.
There is no humour in Islam.
There is no fun in Islam.”
“There are no jokes in Islam.
There is no humour in Islam.
There is no fun in Islam.”
“Yes, we are reactionaries, and you are enlightened intellectuals: You intellectuals do not want us to go back 1400 years. You, who want freedom, freedom for everything, the freedom of parties, you who want all the freedoms, you intellectuals: freedom that will corrupt our youth, freedom that will pave the way for the oppressor, freedom that will drag our nation to the bottom.”
“America is the great Satan, the wounded snake.”
“This regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.”
“A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual act such as forplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed.”
“This regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.”
“We do not worship Iran, we worship Allah. For patriotism is another name for paganism. I say let this land [Iran] burn. I say let this land go up in smoke, provided Islam emerges triumphant in the rest of the world.”
“The author of the Satanic Verses book, which is against Islam, the Prophet and the Koran, and all those involved in its publication who were aware of its content, are sentenced to death. I ask all Moslems to execute them wherever they find them.”
So much for Ayatollahs, huh?
So much for Ayatollahs, huh?
Might be a valid point.....if Iran had not been fighting a world-wide war of proxy through the terror groups they support
But the Israelis are not IN Lebanon anymore....that was the entire point......
Excuse me? We are talking about Iran's proxy, Hezbollah, and war with LEBANON....not Syria.....
This is incomprehensible.
I am NOT fair-minded, I'm sensible. The lunatics in Iran with nuclear weapons scares anyone that has the capability of linear thought.....FAIR has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
Baloney.
The USA is WAY down the list of those that supplied weapons to Iraq, and they did not supply military hardware beyond spare parts.....they did supply "dual-use" stuff, such as trucks, unarmed helicopters....and they may have supplied intelligence. But for arms, the Iraqis turned to Russia, China, France, and Germany..........who shold them material to the tune of tens of BILLIONS of dollars, as opposed to America's few million......do some research and compare.....
A principle that has been broken by both sides........
Would you like some 'quotes' on how some (OT) Jews (Rabbis) view all Gentiles (you and me included) that are just as foul?