Enough farting around on Iran & Nukes

[MHz]

Estimates of a US invasion of Japan were as high 1 million casualities - What would your decision have been -

They had no navy and no air-force, just how much trouble can an island Nation cause at that point? The rulers would have committed suicide and the peasants would have not resisted their 'new owners'. There would have no house to house fighting. A blockade would starve them into surrender, in almost no time.

 

[AnnaG]

Would it bother you to see a regime that seeks out peace and acquires it,

Is that a question? If so, nope. I'd have thought you could figure out my position on peace a long time ago.

Most likely the reason you posted that one twice.

Sorry, if it was posted twice. I cut & pasted it.

Doesn't the US and Israel demand regime changes all the time.

Is that a question?

Care to post some vids on how well Panama and Haiti and Afghanistan and Iraq are doing now that the US has made the regime changes it (not the people who lived there)desired.

Nope. I don't like vidclips, especially ones off-topic.

Where in that quote does it even hint that Iran (or Muslims)should be the one to make sure that change happens?

It doesn't, but I would think one could distinguish between overt threat and implied threat.:roll:

60 years of constant war and no peace anywhere in sight, when are the Jews themselves going to demand they have a gov that seeks and obtains a lasing peace?

Why ask me? I'm not Israeli and indeed, I'm not even Jewish. I do have a darker skin tone than most palefaces., though, does that qualify me to speak for Israel?

Meaning there are some abnormal Muslims?

Nope. Just that Muslims differ from each other just as Christians do. I'm not the one ASSuming all Muslims are the same.

How about abnormal Christians or abnormal Jews, are there any of those that hold positions of power and influence?

I don't know. You figure it out.

Uhmn, they let two go off when Japan was in retreat, that killed how many people?

Funny, I thought it was to get Japan to quit fighting period. And it seems to me that Eisenhower put a lot of thought into it rather than just flippantly deciding on the sopur of the moment that the US should nuke Japan. Can you guarantee that Iran would be so serious about it?

Iran doesn't have any nukes,

Really? How do you know? Because they say they don't?

nor have they initiated any foreign wars in almost 200 years.

So? How long has Israel existed? Um, 1948? Seems to me that Iran hase been pretty hostile towards it ever since.

The very worst years for them were when they were under the rule of an American installed dictator. The CIA even installed what is called their secret police. The US should still be paying monetary compensation for those 25 years of abuse by a foreign government.

Yup. Countries have ups and downs, how about that?

That should pretty much clear up our exchange.

Fine by me.

 

[AnnaG]

Read some article that examines the original quote, it has been hi-jacked to mean something doesn't.
This might shed some light, not that I'll be holding my breath.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pretty hard to be mistaken about this.
Two GOP Senators Openly Call for Regime Change in Iran | Video Cafe

I was not referring to what Ahmamenadhjad (or whatever his name is) said. I was referring to what the Ayatollah said quite a while before Ahmawhatsisname came to power. That quote that was in the news was more recent and it was different.

Pay attention if you are going to post to me, please.

 

[AnnaG]

They had no navy and no air-force,

Wrong. They had a smaller air force and smaller navy than when they started out. There's a big difference. And an even bigger difference is that they were still fighting even after the surrender.

Has the US dropped any nukes since? Would Iran think about dropping nukes? I don't know so I won't be foolish and say they would or wouldn't. But, I will say I wouldn't put it past them.

 

[MHz]

Really? How do you know? Because they say they don't?

How about none of all those inspections turned up anything?
I hope you apply the same suspicion to all Nations.

Pay attention if you are going to post to me, please.

Read the link, "Ahmadinejad's phrase was " بايد از صفحه روزگار محو شود " according to the text published on the President's Office's website, and was a quote of Ayatollah Khomeini.[10]"
Same words have the same meaning no mater if it comes from the clergy or the government.

 

[AnnaG]

How about none of all those inspections turned up anything?

lol We all know inspectors never miss anything don't we? lmao Anyway, I don't care whether Iran has them or not. I wouldn't put it past Iran to use them if they do have them. I'm quite confident that the US or Israel has plans to use theirs.

I hope you apply the same suspicion to all Nations.

I do. I thought it was pretty clear I don't like gov'ts in general.

Read the link, "Ahmadinejad's phrase was " بايد از صفحه روزگار محو شود " according to the text published on the President's Office's website, and was a quote of Ayatollah Khomeini.[10]"
Same words have the same meaning no mater if it comes from the clergy or the government.

*shrugs* "Wiped off the map" or "wiped from the pages of history" are different words but are essentially the same in concept.

 

[Goober]

They had no navy and no air-force, just how much trouble can an island Nation cause at that point? The rulers would have committed suicide and the peasants would have not resisted their 'new owners'. There would have no house to house fighting. A blockade would starve them into surrender, in almost no time.

MHZRead about how well the Germans used the Hitler Youth as fighters - The Japenese revered the Emperor as a living God - If the Emperor stated that the citzens were to fifght to the death they would - Please refer to the battle for Okinawa - Casulualty rates were all over the map on estimates - but the Japenese would not lay down and quit - - Read you history - in 6 months of bombing of Jpan prior to the 1st nuke 300,000 civilians died - educate your self before making such a ridiculus statements as "their new owner" You are clearly not aware of have set aside the Japenese Code of Bushido. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfalltroop transports off Kyūshū would have been much more exposed.



A study done for Secretary of War Henry Stimson's staff by William Shockley estimated that conquering Japan would cost 1.7 to 4 million American casualties, including 400,000 to 800,000 fatalities, and five to ten million Japanese fatalities. The key assumption was large-scale participation by civilians in the defense of Japan.[1]



As to starving them into surrender - read up on Japenese food production during the War

 

[Goober]

MHZ
Quoting AnnaG

Really? How do you know? Because they say they don't?How about none of all those inspections turned up anything?I hope you apply the same suspicion to all Nations.


You are being selective - The IAEA stated that the Iranians were not always forthright and left many questions that needed answers and confirmation. The IAEA even withheld documentation from the Security Council recently - Why would that be?

 

[Goober]

Yes, as I said they are interested in power stations that will help improve the lives of the ones who live there.
Are you 100 % convinced that the US agenda doesn't have it roots in the revolt in the late '70's, same general situation as in Cuba? Get kicked out hold a lifelong grudge, what a sad little people the American politicians are.

MHZI am convinced beyond any reasonable doubt that the Iranians want a nuclear weapon - It was stated in 89 -90 during or just after the Iraq - Iran War that having Nukes would have prevented the war. - and it would have.

 

[MHz]

I am convinced beyond any reasonable doubt that the Iranians want a nuclear weapon - It was stated in 89 -90 during or just after the Iraq - Iran War that having Nukes would have prevented the war. - and it would have.

As a deterrent to being invaded, Iran didn't start that war.

 

[Goober]

As a deterrent to being invaded, Iran didn't start that war.

Yes I am aware of that - Saddam thought that Iran would crumble - nothing like religious fervor to motivate -
The Iranians used human waves of soldiers - and young under 18 - thru minefields and preplanned killing grounds set as defensive positions by the Iraqi's - and were slaughtered by the 10's of thousands - of to meet their maker -

Much like the Japanese would have been if the US had a land invasion of the Home Islands

 

[MHz]

Saddam probably also felt he would get to keep the oilfields.

Iraq supported Palestine (West Bank & Gaza) from 1967 (in how much actual capacity I don't know) at least as longs as Gulf I (as far as I know)The part I read only covered diplomatic ties. Why would Iran suddenly step in to take over that 'position' , it would be equal to supporting your enemies friend.

Hamas has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood yet inside Iran the Muslim Brotherhood is not to be found.
Hamas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Although Iran is a predominately Shia country and the Muslim Brotherhood is Sunni in doctrine and does not have any presence there, Olga Davidson and Mohammad Mahallati claim the Brotherhood has had influence among Shia in Iran."

Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The section on Palestine is rather long and mostly covers the Brotherhood's activities up to the time Hamas was created. That was caring for the people, charity type of work.

 

[jsiooa]

America is the problem not Iran.

Good quote by Noam Chomsky

ompare North Korea and Iraq. Iraq is defenseless and weak; in fact, the weakest
regime in the region. While there is a horrible monster running it, it does not
pose a threat to anyone else. North Korea, on the other hand, does pose a
threat. North Korea, however, is not attacked for a very simple reason: it has a
deterrent. It has a massed artillery aimed at Seoul, and if the United States
attacks it, it can wipe out a large part of South Korea.

So the United States is telling the countries of the world: if you are
defenseless, we are going to attack you when we want, but if you have a
deterrent, we will back off, because we only attack defenseless targets. In
other words, it is telling countries that they had better develop a terrorist
network and weapons of mass destruction or some other credible deterrent; if
not, they are vulnerable to "preventive war".

 

[Colpy]

America is the problem not Iran.

Good quote by Noam Chomsky

Well at least you're not Jew-baiting....

But Noam Chomsky??? The famous idiot and hypocrite? Read all about the famous anti-capitalist's investments, tax shelters, .... and how he profited from 9-11 by raising his speaking fee!!!! HA!

Hoover Institution - Hoover Digest - Noam Chomsky, Closet Capitalist

BTW, Iraq was no pushover in 1990........they had 545,000 soldiers, (100,000 in Kuwait), 649 fighters, and 4,500 tanks (Chinese Type-59s, Type-69s, & self produced T-55 T-62, about 500 Soviet Union T72 Tanks)

In addition, perhaps Mr. Chomsky forgets that we did go to war for South Korea when the North invaded in 1950......that the UN force was overwhelmingly American, and that we damn near lost the peninsula....twice. Also, the United States was responding to aggression in Kuwait.........and North Korea has not attacked the South in force since we beat them back last time.....but, the USA keeps tens of thousands of troops there in case the North does get frisky.

Let me say it again, Chomsky is the worst kind of idiot and hypocrite....living the very good life in the USA, reaping all the benefits of capitalism and that society, while attempting to undermine it with his stupidity....

 

[jsiooa]

Well at least you're not Jew-baiting....

But Noam Chomsky??? The famous idiot and hypocrite? Read all about the famous anti-capitalist's investments, tax shelters, .... and how he profited from 9-11 by raising his speaking fee!!!! HA!

Hoover Institution - Hoover Digest - Noam Chomsky, Closet Capitalist

BTW, Iraq was no pushover in 1990........they had 545,000 soldiers, (100,000 in Kuwait), 649 fighters, and 4,500 tanks (Chinese Type-59s, Type-69s, & self produced T-55 T-62, about 500 Soviet Union T72 Tanks)

In addition, perhaps Mr. Chomsky forgets that we did go to war for South Korea when the North invaded in 1950......that the UN force was overwhelmingly American, and that we damn near lost the peninsula....twice. Also, the United States was responding to aggression in Kuwait.........and North Korea has not attacked the South in force since we beat them back last time.....but, the USA keeps tens of thousands of troops there in case the North does get frisky.

Let me say it again, Chomsky is the worst kind of idiot and hypocrite....living the very good life in the USA, reaping all the benefits of capitalism and that society, while attempting to undermine it with his stupidity....

No I don't think Chomsky is famous for being an idiot. :laughing8:
And you're completely wrong and Chomsky right about the gulf war. The U.S, Kuwaiti and the rest of the coalition forces lost under 400 men combined. Whereas over 30,000+ Iraqis died. Which leads me to believe you're wrong about everything else you said. Furthermore, calling Chomsky an idiot doesn't bode well for your credibility.

In addition, perhaps Mr. Chomsky forgets that we did go to war for South Korea when the North invaded in 1950.

What the hell? Are you being serious? NK had no nukes in 1950.


The quote I posted was magnificent and nothing but the truth.

 

[Colpy]

No I don't think Chomsky is famous for being an idiot. :laughing8:
And you're completely wrong and Chomsky right about the gulf war. The U.S, Kuwaiti and the rest of the coalition forces lost under 400 men combined. Whereas over 30,000+ Iraqis died. Which leads me to believe you're wrong about everything else you said. Furthermore, calling Chomsky an idiot doesn't bode well for your credibility.




What the hell? Are you being serious? NK had no nukes in 1950.


The quote I posted was magnificent and nothing but the truth.

Naw, he's not famous for being an idiot, he just is an idiot. Or perhaps I mispoke....he is a hypocrite that cons idiots out of $12,000 a night to hear him speak.....:roll: I have no respect for those that work to undermine the very society that tolerates their scorn, and makes them rich in the process....Chomsky, Michael Moore...that bunch.

Actually, Iraq lost between 100,000 and 150,000........thanks to good prep by US and Allied forces. But that was the final accounting....nobody expected it to be that easy.

We weren't talking about nukes....neither was Chomsky....he mentioned artillery, not nukes. When was the comment written???

 

[L Gilbert]

Personally, I don't think anyone should have nukes. Especially oppressive theocracies.
I don't care about the States having them because they haven't shown any particular tendency to nuke anyone since Japan. Can anyone tell me with certainty what Iran's intentions would be concerning its nukes?
I'm also pretty sure those dingbat IDF bigwigs wouldn't use nukes, they seem to prefer using conventionals.
Pakistan is a bit spooky as it seems to be a relatively backwards society.
Before Kim Il went kaflooey, I'd have said the same about NK, but I don't know the kid well enough to hazard a guess.

 

[Colpy]

Personally, I don't think anyone should have nukes. Especially oppressive theocracies.

The best solution is no nukes.

The second best situation is only our friends have nukes.(USA, Britain, France, Israel)

A slightly worse situation is our sane enemies have nukes. (China)

The worst situation is our lunatic enemies have nukes. (North Korea, Iran)

 

[jsiooa]

Naw, he's not famous for being an idiot, he just is an idiot. Or perhaps I mispoke....he is a hypocrite that cons idiots out of $12,000 a night to hear him speak.....:roll: I have no respect for those that work to undermine the very society that tolerates their scorn, and makes them rich in the process....Chomsky, Michael Moore...that bunch.

Actually, Iraq lost between 100,000 and 150,000........thanks to good prep by US and Allied forces. But that was the final accounting....nobody expected it to be that easy.

We weren't talking about nukes....neither was Chomsky....he mentioned artillery, not nukes. When was the comment written???

North Korea has a way stronger military than they did in 1950 and they have weapons of mass destruction (nukes).
I don't know anything about Chomsky charging 12k for watching him speak, sounds ludicrous and doubtful that there is any truth to it.

 

[L Gilbert]

The best solution is no nukes.

The second best situation is only our friends have nukes.(USA, Britain, France, Israel)

A slightly worse situation is our sane enemies have nukes. (China)

The worst situation is our lunatic enemies have nukes. (North Korea, Iran)

China is an enemy? News to me. I'm not exactly sure that Canada has any enemies besides the Taliban at this point. But, judging by past Ayatollahs, it's not a stretch to think there's not much difference between the Taliban and the Iranian administration at times at least attitude-wise.

Um, as far as Chomsky goes, we all know how objective and unbiased he can be, right?