Israel pounds Gaza, death toll well over 100 and climbing

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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Still have a closed mind Z?

I was about to ask why your mind is so closed. Once I was like you and fell for media savvy biased bullcrap. Then I actually did some indepth reading. Someday, your mind will open away from this "Pro-Palestinian Freedom Fighter" crap.

Many sources I reference are Jewish and/or Israeli. I often find them to be less subjective than Western sources. B'Tselem is among the best sources of information regarding this conflict.
B'Tselem - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories

This is what Im talking about. What you really mean is you find these sources re-inforce your already held beliefs. A "Best Source" is one that tells you that you are correct and you don't need to do any further reading. I went through this anti-Israel phase in my youth. Try reading sites that are direct opposition to your views. Seriously give it a try.

Most of the people fighting with the Nazis were Germans, not Arabs. Most of the people rounding up and gassing Jews were Europeans, not Arabs. Arabs fought on both sides in WW II. Most Palestinian Arabs stayed out of WW II refusing to support either side.

Agian, not true. Most of the people fighting with the Nazi's were not Germans though they were the largest minority. Austrians, Italians, French, Slavic peoples, Romanian, Arab forces,

Anyone from a nation with strong anti-semite beliefs tended to flock to the Nazi cause by the end of the war. There were American's fighting for the Nazi's too. This idea that anti-semitism came AFTER WWII is revisionist.

The 1929 Palestinian Riots where the Jews were expelled from Gaza (and forbidden from returning by the British) was Pre-WWII as but one example.

Starvation as a result of crop failure or natural catastrophe is one thing. Using food and medicine (or the lack of it) as a weapon is a crime against humanity... even when Israel does it.

They are not starving them of anything. No one is forced to put their own lives at risk to help a hostile force. If Hamas is going to run the Gaza strip AND launch an aggressive war, it needs to have it own source of food and medicine. Allowing your people to starve and die to fuel your war effort is a crime against humanity. Before one launches an aggressive war, one is expected to have stockpiles of food and medicine and should surrender if they run out.

Why do you insist on holding Israel to a different standard than us? You do know in every major war we have been in, as Canadians, we have used blockades and prevented outside aid (even food and medicine) from breaching battle lines.

Israel even still provides food and medicine for free, to an unoccupied hostile territory. They do act better than we do in Canada.

Fundamental human rights are fundamental human rights. These rights are not dependant on who you democratically elect.

And no fundemental human rights have been breached. I think you have a problem understanding a human right, as in you have the right to ensure you are not deprived of your own food, and are instead trying to imply a duty on Israel to give them that food.

A fundemental right is something you cannot be prevented from doing, not something you can force someone else to do for you.

I have a fundemental right to pursue happiness, I do not have a fundemental right to force you to make me happy.


The link I provided regarding a peaceful tolerant Ottoman empire which welcomed and accepted Jews came from an Israeli Education website: Israel Science and Technology Homepage
Turkey was a safe destination for Jews during WW II. Follow this link and keep an open mind: Brief History of Turkish Jews

Today, Turkey is a popular Jewish tourist destination.

Yes, the Ottoman Empire did welcome Jews into the Empire, as citizens (as much as Arabs were in the Turkic empire anyways). Yet you still keep throwing around claims about "zionism" in the early 20th century as some evil invading army illegal stealing land.

Not as the series of legal immigrants and settlers being allowed to settle.

Perhaps you have forgotten that at the exact same time Canada was giving away the land of Native to settlers (for free) to encourage them to build up the area. Are you saying all Canadians should leave the country if their ancestors were legal immigrants?

You are full of serious double standards in your logic that you apply to Israel.

Someday you will open your mind, learn more about the situation and really become alot more grounded in the reality of the situation, not in the grande PR claims of the groups involved.
 
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earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Using food and medicine as a weapon is a war crime. Truckloads of food and medicine are blockaded from entering Gaza.

Israel has let a few truckloads enter for PR purposes. But Israel, the Gazans and every human rights group on the scene knows Israel is slowly starving these people.

UNITED NATIONS

Press Release





Gaza: Silence is not an option








9 December 2008






The Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights on Palestinian territories occupied since 1967, Richard Falk, issued the following statement:



GENEVA -- In recent days the desperate plight of the civilian population of Gaza has been acknowledged by such respected international figures as the Secretary General of the United Nations, the President of the General Assembly, and the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights.

Last week, Karen AbyZayd, who heads the UN relief effort in Gaza, offered first-hand confirmation of the desperate urgency and unacceptable conditions facing the civilian population of Gaza. Although many leaders have commented on the cruelty and unlawfulness of the Gaza blockade imposed by Israel, such a flurry of denunciations by normally cautious UN officials has not occurred on a global level since the heyday of South African apartheid.

And still Israel maintains its Gaza siege in its full fury, allowing only barely enough food and fuel to enter to stave off mass famine and disease. Such a policy of collective punishment, initiated by Israel to punish Gazans for political developments within the Gaza Strip, constitutes a continuing flagrant and massive violation of international humanitarian law as laid down in Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

It is long past the time when talk suffices. As AbuZayd has written, "the chasm between word and deed" with respect to upholding human rights in occupied Palestine creates a situation where "radicalism and extremism easily take root." The UN is obligated to respond under these conditions. Some governments of the world are complicit by continuing their support politically and economically for Israel's punitive approach.

Protective action must be taken immediately to offset the persisting and wide-ranging violations of the fundamental human right to life, and in view of the emergency situation that is producing a humanitarian catastrophe that is unfolding day by day. However difficult politically, it is time to act. At the very least, an urgent effort should be made at the United Nations to implement the agreed norm of a 'responsibility to protect' a civilian population being collectively punished by policies that amount to a Crime Against Humanity.

In a similar vein, it would seem mandatory for the International Criminal Court to investigate the situation, and determine whether the Israeli civilian leaders and military commanders responsible for the Gaza siege should be indicted and prosecuted for violations of international criminal law. As AbuZayd has declared, "This is a humanitarian crisis deliberately imposed by political actors."

It should be noted that the situation worsened in recent days due to the breakdown of a truce between Hamas and Israel that had been observed for several months by both sides. The truce was maintained by Hamas despite the failure of Israel to fulfill its obligation under the agreement to improve the living conditions of the people of Gaza.

The recent upsurge of violence occurred after an Israeli incursion that killed several alleged Palestinian militants within Gaza. It is a criminal violation of international law for elements of Hamas or anyone else to fire rockets at Israeli towns regardless of provocation, but such Palestinian behavior does not legalize Israel's imposition of a collective punishment of a life- and health-threatening character on the people of Gaza, and should not distract the UN or international society from discharging their fundamental moral and legal duty to render protection to the Palestinian people.


Situation in Gaza - UN Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in OPT (Falk) - Statement (9 December 2008)

That's the situation as reported to the UN on December 9, 2008. The description is out of date. Israel has let very little food or medicine enter Gaza since. This is a crime against humanity.

June 04, 2008

Defense For Children International

...The crippling economic blockade of the Gaza Strip has impacted the various aspects of public life in this coastal region. According to the Hamas-run Palestinian Health Ministry, 70 percent of Gaza's 1.5 million residents suffer from anemia, including 44 percent of pregnant women.

Malnutrition among Palestinian children has also increased over the past 11 months, affecting more than 10 percent of Gaza's children under the age of 18.

A recent malnutrition survey, conducted by the Ard Al-Insan health organization in Gaza City, revealed that around 10.4 percent of households in Gaza City and in the northern and southern Gaza Strip suffer from chronic malnutrition with many of them facing growth difficulties in terms of weight and length...

DCI/PS - Blockade Worsens Gaza Malnutrition

People who support Israel's imposition of famine and disease on Gazans show their true colors. You either support Israel's crimes against humanity or you support the principle of fundamental human rights.
 
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darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
  1. "We must define our position and lay down basic principles for a settlement. Our demands should be moderate and balanced, and appear to be reasonable. But in fact they must involve such conditions as to ensure that the enemy rejects them. Then we should manoeuvre and allow him to define his own position, and reject a settlement on the basis of a compromise solution. We should then publish his demands as embodying unreasonable extremism." – General Yehoshafat Harkabi, Ma'ariv, 2 November 1973.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
  1. "The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war." – Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha'aretz, 19 March 1972.
 

dancing-loon

House Member
Oct 8, 2007
2,739
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I'm just watching this conflict on TV and am very upset how a supposedly civilized Nation pounds mercilessly a tiny, locked-up impoverished bunch of people who have no means of defending themselves nor responding likewise.

What gives Israel the gall to continue the attacks despite condemnations from the UN, protests from around the world? Especially the Arab world is very angered and ready to explode. I almost wish they would and put Israel in its place. But that is probably not an option, because America would get involved. Maybe knowing of big brother's support makes Israel so cocky and reckless... they have nothing to fear.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Could it have anything to do with provoking Armageddon? Christian Zionists are supporting Israel to bring on the second coming. Most men above thirty know how hard a second coming is :)
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Whose fault does that make uprisings in a Warsaw ghetto?

I know! The similarities are uncanny. Well, OK the similarities are canny. OK OK there are no similarities. :lol:


Interesting photo essay of life in Gaza. Here's a sample, palestinian boys taking a break from rumaging through a former settlement to have an.....wait for it.....ice cream. Yes ice cream, that staple of the Warsaw Ghetto. :p

Palestinians touring the vacated settlements on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Go through all the pictures, they're quite good, especially the ones of the markets and people smuggling from Egypt. They must be desperately smuggling in food, eh? Guess again.

Just like life in the Ghetto, alright:

Hunger and malnutrition were everyone's reality. People ate potato peelings. Anyone walking down a ghetto street with a package that might contain food was taking a risk. Packages were often grabbed from an owner's hands by people desperate for something to eat.

Ghettos: Diet

I'm surprised the Jews of the Ghetto didn't fire even more rocket than they did. O wait....
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
  1. "We came here to a country that was populated by Arabs and we are building here a Hebrew, a Jewish state; instead of the Arab villages, Jewish villages were established. You even do not know the names of those villages, and I do not blame you because these villages no longer exist. There is not a single Jewish settlement that was not established in the place of a former Arab Village." – Moshe Dyan, March 19, 1969, speech at the Technion in Haifa, quoted in Ha’aretz, April 4, 1969.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
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SW Ontario
Could it have anything to do with provoking Armageddon? Christian Zionists are supporting Israel to bring on the second coming.

Absolutely. I recall once hearing that the Islamic Armageddon entails killing off of the Jews. Ahmadinjihad of Iran is apparently quite enthralled by this whole end days in our lifetime thing. Hamas is a tools of Iran. Kinda of fits, doesn't it.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
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In the bush near Sudbury
I know! The similarities are uncanny. Well, OK the similarities are canny. OK OK there are no similarities. :lol:


Interesting photo essay of life in Gaza. Here's a sample, palestinian boys taking a break from rumaging through a former settlement to have an.....wait for it.....ice cream. Yes ice cream, that staple of the Warsaw Ghetto. :p

Palestinians touring the vacated settlements on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Go through all the pictures, they're quite good, especially the ones of the markets and people smuggling from Egypt. They must be desperately smuggling in food, eh? Guess again.

Just like life in the Ghetto, alright:

Hunger and malnutrition were everyone's reality. People ate potato peelings. Anyone walking down a ghetto street with a package that might contain food was taking a risk. Packages were often grabbed from an owner's hands by people desperate for something to eat.

Ghettos: Diet

I'm surprised the Jews of the Ghetto didn't fire even more rocket than they did. O wait....

What keeps your hat from falling on the ground?
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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People who support Israel's imposition of famine and disease on Gazans show their true colors. You either support Israel's crimes against humanity or you support the principle of fundamental human rights.

Human Rights. Gaza has a right to produce its own food and feed its citizens. It does not have a right to enslave others into giving them food. It does not have a right to have supplies it wants shipped through an enemy it is engaged in an unsanctioned aggressive war with.

You seem to have a huge problem distinguishing between a right one possesses, and a privelage one extracts from others.

Gaza is in a war with Israel, it should either grow enough food to be self sufficient or break through the blockade, or surrender. Even as it stands, if things actually got bad in Gaza (not just uncomfortable), israel will airdrop food, as it always does.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
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SW Ontario
Exactly what fact is determined by manipulating that which is stated into more "no similarities" crap? I suggest your facts come from the south end of a northbound bull....

Whose fault does that make uprisings in a Warsaw ghetto?

If I misinterpreted that as being a draw at similarity, then I apologize, no manipulation of statement was intended. Judging however, by the elicitation of nothing but schoolyard insults in response, I suspect my interpretation was quite correct.