Your thoughts on the election results?

s_lone

Council Member
Feb 16, 2005
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It's reasons like this "need to be recognized" that so many of us in the rest of Canada view Quebec as an attention seeking child. Do Acadians crave attention, and make tragedies of trivial matters?

Yeah, I get that you have a distinct society. I get that you're an equal part of Canada. I don't get your insatiable need for attention. Most kids grow out of having their mommy praise them for every scribbled picture...

It's not about needing attention.. It's about being independent!

Quebec nationalists simply want Quebec to be a master in its own house... They're not yelling for attention, they're just saying "can't we just do things our way while you do things your way?"

A very important thing people from the ROC tend to overlook is the fact that pretty much all Quebec nationalists couldn't care less if any other province had a ''special status''... The reason for this is simple, a lot of Quebec nationalists don't really care about what happens outside of Quebec... It's not that they don't care selfishly, it's that they consider anything to happen outside of Quebec as being none of their business. The only exception to this would be the House of Commons in Ottawa...

This attitude comes from the fact that Quebec nationalists consider themselves Québecois first while their Canadianship is more of a technical fact. A bit like a German person would say ''I'm German" instead of saying ''I'm European''.

It pretty much all comes down to the fact that Quebec nationalists want a truly decentralized Canada where Ottawa keeps its nose out of the stuff that doesn't concern it... Where provinces are truly independent in all matters that they govern and where money sent to Ottawa as income tax and GST is exclusively spent on confederal issues such as what to do with our army...

It's gonna be interesting to see how another Conservative government, who is decentralizing compared to the Liberals, will impact nationalism in Quebec.
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
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It's not about needing attention.. It's about being independent!

Quebec nationalists simply want Quebec to be a master in its own house... They're not yelling for attention, they're just saying "can't we just do things our way while you do things your way?"

A very important thing people from the ROC tend to overlook is the fact that pretty much all Quebec nationalists couldn't care less if any other province had a ''special status''... The reason for this is simple, a lot of Quebec nationalists don't really care about what happens outside of Quebec... It's not that they don't care in a selfishly, it's that they consider anything to happen outside of Quebec as being none of their business. The only exception to this would be the House of Commons in Ottawa...

This attitude comes from the fact that Quebec nationalists consider themselves Québecois first while their Canadianship is more of a technical fact. A bit like a German person would say ''I'm German" instead of saying ''I'm European''.

It pretty much all comes down to the fact that Quebec nationalists want a truly decentralized Canada where Ottawa keeps its nose out of the stuff that doesn't concern it... Where provinces are truly independent in all matters that they govern and where money sent to Ottawa as income tax and GST is exclusively spent on confederal issues such as what to do with our army...

It's gonna be interesting to see how another Conservative government, who is decentralizing compared to the Liberals, will impact nationalism in Quebec.

True.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
31,709
11,504
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
I agree with Dexter. When you nearly get a majority with the support of only 18 out of every 100 Canadians, or 26 out of every 100 eligible voters...something needs fixing.

Funny thing is, if the Prairies had the same representation as say NS or PEI, there would be a majority, and probably a fairly significant one...

Ironically, too many on the Prairies think/feel that the election is over long before their
vote is counted. It's a mental thing that I don't ascribe to but do understand in that it's
a combination of the time zones running like they do (yes...it is a factor) and that the
bulk of the population (Ontario & Quebec) is well East of the Prairies and decides
who will lead the country before we usually sit down for supper in the West.

That was the past, and in a close race, many still are stuck in the old mindset. With
the new mental band-aide rules of staggered poll closing times, it just doesn't make a
difference. A 58% national voting rate (propped up by NS & PEI...) really disgusts
me. I was at the polls (with my Son) at 7:35AM to beat the rush.
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
5,658
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Ironically, too many on the Prairies think/feel that the election is over long before their
vote is counted. It's a mental thing that I don't ascribe to but do understand in that it's
a combination of the time zones running like they do (yes...it is a factor) and that the
bulk of the population (Ontario & Quebec) is well East of the Prairies and decides
who will lead the country before we usually sit down for supper in the West.

That was the past, and in a close race, many still are stuck in the old mindset. With
the new mental band-aide rules of staggered poll closing times, it just doesn't make a
difference. A 58% national voting rate (propped up by NS & PEI...) really disgusts
me. I was at the polls (with my Son) at 7:35AM to beat the rush.


Man it sux, considering the time zones.
....vote without knowing the votes that have been cast, then show the results the following day.....
....just an idea....

 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
The best fascist won, at least we'll understand the orders. Green Shift my ass that frenchguy puppet was to chicken to talk about the economy when he knew fullwell it would turn sour when it did and like it did. All of them avoided reality while they sleezed for votes. None of them are the type you want leading a country or a scout troop for that matter. Why can't we have a former Venesulan paratrooper instead of glorified office help we perenially get saddled with? I guess it's because we're stupid. What else could it be?:smile:
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
31,709
11,504
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Man it sux, considering the time zones.
....vote without knowing the votes that have been cast, then show the results the following day.....
....just an idea....

Well....that might be part of the answer but I don't think that is even
possible in today's age of instant gratification and access to information.
They tried to block the knowledge of election results in Eastern Canada
from voters in Western Canada until the polls in the west closed.

For those with satellite TV, or cable TV that picks up stations in many
time zones....it didn't work. It's really silly actually. The CTV announcers
actually had a countdown clock at the bottom of the screen so that adult
voters would know when the polls closed in their area so that they could
be graced with the knowledge of election results in Eastern Canada...These
announcers where just giddy with the inside knowledge saying, "It'll only be
another eight minutes before we can tell you what we've know for quite
some time out of Eastern Canada!" Yeah....whatever.

Most Canadians do have at least basic math skills though (even the ones
in Western Canada) and know that if they total all the seats in all the Territories
and all four western Provinces together, it's still a "Nova Scotia" of seats less
than Ontario alone....so why bother. I don't ascribe to this train of thought what
so ever, but I'm just acknowledging it as perhaps a portion of the reasoning
(beyond ignorance and utter laziness) behind the voter apathy.
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
5,373
25
38
Toronto
Man it sux, considering the time zones.
....vote without knowing the votes that have been cast, then show the results the following day.....
....just an idea....
Not sure whether it would make a difference, but that sounds like a reasonable idea. I was involved in a conversation yesterday about the same thing.
 
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earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
I understand separatists. Francophones were treated as second class citizens in Quebec until recently. At one time, if you wanted to get ahead in Quebec you had to speak English. But that's not true anymore. Quebec culture and language is under seige by English North America, but separation wouldn't change that. Most Canadians including Anglophones want to preserve Quebec's French culture. Vive la difference!

If Quebec was not part of Canada, the rest of Canada would become more like the US. If it wasn't for Quebec, Harper would have won a majority. It it wasn't for Chretien, Canada would have helped the US commit war crimes in Iraq. If it wasn't for English Canada, Quebec would have a lower standard of living.

Face it, we need each other and that's been reaffirmed by two votes now. Our French-English union is like a marriage. Separation would be like a divorce. In a divorce, only the lawyers come out ahead.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,467
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Location, Location
Not sure whether it would make a difference, but that sounds like a reasonable idea. I was involved in a conversation yesterday about the same thing.

I hardly think it matters; we had what, 3 different 'blocks' of poll closings: the 32 Atlantic seats closed at 830; the Quebec-Alberta clump closed at 1030; BC at 11.

Are you suggesting that people in Quebec to Alberta would wait for that last hour, to see how the results in the ever-important Atlantic seats went, and then rush to vote at the last couple of hours? Or that BC would do the same? Sure, a few would, but come on, for BC it's only a half hour. The number of people who would, or physically could, do so is miniscule.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,677
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
It's over.

Oh reeaaalllly? Why because you say it is?

Guess what? You don't always get what you want.

I respond to your lame ass comments, you could at least do the same and respond to my lame ass comments.

You don't just waltz all into this topic and drag it into a debate about Quebec and how special you think you are and then when someone calls you on it to explain better..... take off, respond with short usless posts and tell me it's over.

You lil fart monger, you think you're gonna sway opinions by bragging on about how you apparently visited other parts of the country, apparently lived 17 years outside of Quebec, tell us we don't have the spirit like you guys, basically trashing the entire country.... except your precious little sh*t hole you call Quebec and then take off like a troll when you're asked for examples and more elaboration?

Guess again.... it just makes you look like the pompus jerkwad, telling us you guys know how to play the game to get what you want and sucks to be us...... great way to help people to like Quebec.

You know what? Leave.... just leave, start your own fancy little country, start dealing with the US..... get all kinds of money.... oh and in two years figure out how all your resources just got sucked away because of dumbass politicians you all rushed into power who got blinded by money.

At least then my kids won't have to grow up being forced to learn French.
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
5,658
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Oh reeaaalllly? Why because you say it is?

Guess what? You don't always get what you want.

I respond to your lame ass comments, you could at least do the same and respond to my lame ass comments.

You don't just waltz all into this topic and drag it into a debate about Quebec and how special you think you are and then when someone calls you on it to explain better..... take off, respond with short usless posts and tell me it's over.

You lil fart monger, you think you're gonna sway opinions by bragging on about how you apparently visited other parts of the country, apparently lived 17 years outside of Quebec, tell us we don't have the spirit like you guys, basically trashing the entire country.... except your precious little sh*t hole you call Quebec and then take off like a troll when you're asked for examples and more elaboration?

Guess again.... it just makes you look like the pompus jerkwad, telling us you guys know how to play the game to get what you want and sucks to be us...... great way to help people to like Quebec.

You know what? Leave.... just leave, start your own fancy little country, start dealing with the US..... get all kinds of money.... oh and in two years figure out how all your resources just got sucked away because of dumbass politicians you all rushed into power who got blinded by money.

At least then my kids won't have to grow up being forced to learn French.

As far as this goes....here is what you wrote:

You started this whole crap about Quebec, you can damn well finish it.

So i finished it.
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
5,658
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As far as this goes....here is what you wrote:

You started this whole crap about Quebec, you can damn well finish it.

So i finished it.

..... and my opinion was expressed on what I experienced while in the employ of The Hudson's Bay, who wanted to know how the stores were doing, how the managers were performing their jobs and how they were following directives....

.....you have taken this out of context and laid it on me....

.....that is okay with me....

.....besides it's a dead issue now and won't be rearing its head any time soon.....

Don't condemn all of Quebec for what I have written. If you and others are insulted by what I found .... in that capacity... insulting then I apologize.

Sincerely,

scratch

Just for the record I was more critical of the stores in Quebec than any other area.


 
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Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
I understand separatists. Francophones were treated as second class citizens in Quebec until recently. At one time, if you wanted to get ahead in Quebec you had to speak English. But that's not true anymore. Quebec culture and language is under seige by English North America, but separation wouldn't change that. Most Canadians including Anglophones want to preserve Quebec's French culture. Vive la difference!

That's the thing.... every province has it's own culture, way of life, history, etc.... just because one speaks a different language or has a different history, doesn't make them anymore special then the other.

Some places have more scottish heritage, Irish, German, Indian, Native, Asian, Direct British, etc.... We all have our differences and that's what makes us all equal.

For Quebec to act the way it continually does..... well that just reminds me of our own little Israel we have to pamper all the time.... and if we talk ill will towards anything they do.... look out.

If Quebec was not part of Canada, the rest of Canada would become more like the US.

:-? See that's the thing that pisses me off about some people here in Canada.... they don't seem to relate to any of their own culture, heritage or history....... they seem to think we got nothing else except to mooch off of whatever the US feed us.

Don't forget a good chunk of their own media has Canadian actors or voice overs in them, using Canadian technology, techniques...... sure it goes back and forth, but for people to say we have no identity without Quebec is shorting their own culture surrouding them.

Saying people in Galgary have no identity of their own is like saying people in Boston don't. People in the highlands of Cape Breton to some off the shores of Scotland or Ireland.

Hell, the Acadiens of Nova Scotia have been around for a hell of a lot longer then those in Quebec and although the English had their ways in the past of expulsions etc..... they still live here today, still have their french culture, still wave their acadien flags, and are doing just fine compared to most...... and I sure as hell don't hear them talking about seperating from Nova Scotia and joining Maine or becoming their own province to eventually become their own little nation.

That is why I am in the position I am in over this. I know many french, I have family from Quebec I see regularly..... and I have been through Quebec on a couple of occasions myself in my younger years, and I honestly don't see why the hell Quebec has to be the big babies of the nation.

If it wasn't for Quebec, Harper would have won a majority. It it wasn't for Chretien, Canada would have helped the US commit war crimes in Iraq. If it wasn't for English Canada, Quebec would have a lower standard of living.

All of those are of course unprovable and could have gone many other ways other then the black and white expressed above.

If it wasn't for Jean Chretien, someone else would have been in his place. Only Harper was the one moaning to join the war in Iraq, and that is because he was opposition.... and it seems that in our government, the opposition's job is to argue with every single thing that passes them and oppose every decision the party in power makes..... even if your choice is more stupid..... ie: Carbon Tax.

if it wasn't for Quebec voting for the Bloc and were not even a part of the equation, as it shown in the Atlantic Proviences beforehand, the Liberals would have been the minority..... which would also be unfortunate. Not only that, if Quebec was out of the equation, then central Canada wouldn't have as much of a strangle hold on the rest of the nation as it currently does, west and north included, not just the Atlantics.

And if I wasn't here shooting my mouth off, I'm pretty sure someone else would be here to take my place in some fashion or another..... that's life. There are no sure fire "What could have beens" because they will never be.

Face it, we need each other and that's been reaffirmed by two votes now. Our French-English union is like a marriage. Separation would be like a divorce. In a divorce, only the lawyers come out ahead.

Naw, eventually after about a year or two, you get to s*ut it up with all kinds of chicks who think you're rich and successful.

But in seriousness, my parents divorced, much like millions of other couples, they have new relationships and they're all much more happier now then during their forced marriage due to religious beliefs in the family...... sorta like this example we're talking about.
 
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Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
As far as this goes....here is what you wrote:

You started this whole crap about Quebec, you can damn well finish it.

So i finished it.

Let me explain it another way..... if you pick a fight, you don't just walk away halfway through just cuz you feel like it and expect the other guy to just deal with it.

I asked you questions, after directly responding to your own + comments..... you then just walk away from the argument like you said nothing..... that all your unfounded bullsh*t you just spewed was gold and then suddenly decide not to defend it when it is challenged, therefore you think you're somehow right in doing so.

You're not.

And you're still proving it with responses like the above.

Sorry, I don't let anybody get away with this, myself included, and you sure as hell ain't off the hook either.

Either explain your previous coments, address the questions presented to you..... or retract what you said.

Not that difficult..... or is it?
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,677
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
..... and my opinion was expressed on what I experienced while in the employ of The Hudson's Bay, who wanted to know how the stores were doing, how the managers were performing their jobs and how they were following directives....

.....you have taken this out of context and laid it on me....


No I didn't... I haven't even begun to bring it into context, which is why I asked you questions on what you said.

How did you see this mentality in the rest of Canada? Just in the stores you worked with? Newsflash: Just about everybody I've ever seen shopping in Hudson Bay stores are apethetic, rich snobs..... so no wonder why you might have got that perspective. Hell, all the cashiers at the Zellers here beside where I live are all wives of rich guys who have no real lives during the day and nothing to do, so they take these jobs to kill time...... and their customer service is crap..... not that they care anyways.... they're rich.

Then you said you lived outside of Quebec for 17 years or so, so I then asked where. For all I know, you lived 17 years in downtown Toronto and therefore judge the rest of the nation based on your life in one other city, while seeing the snobs who shop at the Bay.....

By all means, correct me...... But that's the problem, you haven't bothered to yet and would just rather end the debate..... which either means you're full of sh*t and I'm right, or you just won't elaborate any, because your experience is more lacking then you're really giving off.

Which is it?

.....that is okay with me....

.....besides it's a dead issue now and won't be rearing its head any time soon.....

Don't condemn all of Quebec for what I have written. If you and others are insulted by what I found .... in that capacity... insulting then I apologize.

Sincerely,

scratch

Just for the record I was more critical of the stores in Quebec than any other area.

Naw..... it's sort of like how Uncle expresses the mentality as to one of the reasons why I don't like Texas..... I don't hold all of Quebec to what you just say..... but you help prove my position and certainly don't help.
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
5,658
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[/i]

No I didn't... I haven't even begun to bring it into context, which is why I asked you questions on what you said.

How did you see this mentality in the rest of Canada? Just in the stores you worked with? Newsflash: Just about everybody I've ever seen shopping in Hudson Bay stores are apethetic, rich snobs..... so no wonder why you might have got that perspective. Hell, all the cashiers at the Zellers here beside where I live are all wives of rich guys who have no real lives during the day and nothing to do, so they take these jobs to kill time...... and their customer service is crap..... not that they care anyways.... they're rich.

Then you said you lived outside of Quebec for 17 years or so, so I then asked where. For all I know, you lived 17 years in downtown Toronto and therefore judge the rest of the nation based on your life in one other city, while seeing the snobs who shop at the Bay.....

By all means, correct me...... But that's the problem, you haven't bothered to yet and would just rather end the debate..... which either means you're full of sh*t and I'm right, or you just won't elaborate any, because your experience is more lacking then you're really giving off.

Which is it?



Naw..... it's sort of like how Uncle expresses the mentality as to one of the reasons why I don't like Texas..... I don't hold all of Quebec to what you just say..... but you help prove my position and certainly don't help.

What you have said about the Bay is quite true.

I have lived in Toronto on four different occasions as well as Windsor, Leamington and Kingsville.

I grew up in an upper crust suburb of Montreal and was married to an Assistant Professor of Linguistics (University of Montreal).

I spent a couple of years in North Vancouver.

My experience isn't lacking in this area. I rarely believed what I read, only about half of what I heard and all that I saw.

No matter where I have been I have been chastised and ridiculed for being a Quebecer, a fact that I did not try to hide.

Am I a snob....probably.
Am I leading you down the garden path...no.

I have called it as I see it, then and now.
If you do not see it that way, so be it.





 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,760
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As far as I'm concerned Dion won the election.

The whole purpose of the last 2 1/2 years of conservative RULE has been to build enough momentum for a majority. More efort has been spent on attacking the opposition and its' leaders and the democratic institutions of Canada itself,than has been spent on effectively running the country.

Instead of using his mandate to bring about the changes he promised in the last election, Harper has concentrated power in the PMO to a greater degree than even Chretien. He wants unfetered access to power, which is what the this last election was all about. Chances are good that the US will usher in a new, more Liberal government in November, reducing the conservatives chances of majority here. This election was a cynical attempt by a single-minded leader and party to seize power and the results shows the real face of Canada.

Two years of lies, games, intimidation and classic pork barrelling in Quebec could only bring 19 new seats to a government that has done everything short of breaking the law (and that still has to be determined) to gain power.

Dion on the other hand has stood on the front lines of our political system and taken personal hit after personal hit, the only real purpose of which was to deprive us of a real choice. The fact he held the conservatives to a second minority is a real indication of the man and his efforts. Whether or not he stays to rebuild and lead the Liberals in the future, I think he deserves our gratitude for the fine job he's done.
 
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