Will Tump Tear up NAFTA???

Hoid

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it pretty much lowers the cost of goods and benefits everyone in that sense.
 

White_Unifier

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I'm all for helping the poor, but not by imposing inefficiencies on the economy through low economies of scale and unnecessary bureaucracy for example.

Furthermore, tariffs don't discriminate on the basis of wealth. If you impose a tariff on an import that poor and wealthy people buy, then they both pay it. Interestingly, agriculture is among Canada's most protected industries. The poor spend a far greater percentage of their wealth on food than the rich do. So in fact in the Canadian context, protectionism geared towards hurting the poor the most.

The easiest way to help the poor is through a simple wealth tax. If you want the rich to be able to afford to pay higher taxes to help the poor, you don't want to impose all kinds of unnecessary inefficiencies onto them.
 

Twin_Moose

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Only Milk and Eggs are protected in agriculture

Mexico says will not renegotiate NAFTA under pressure, but makes new offer

Mexico will not buckle to pressure to conclude the long-stalled renegotiation of NAFTA, President Enrique Pena Nieto's spokesman said on Thursday, but a source said the country made a new offer after the United States launched a probe exploring auto tariffs. Differences over how to reconfigure the auto industry have slowed progress on talks to rework the 23-year-old North American Free Trade Agreement that underpins Mexico's economy, with Mexico showing some flexibility but refusing to completely meet U.S. demands.
On Wednesday, U.S. President Donald Trump's administration said it would examine whether car and truck imports from around the world harm its auto industry, a move that may lead to new tariffs on exports to the world's second-largest auto market.
One Trump official said the investigation was partly aimed at yielding NAFTA concessions from trade partners Mexico and Canada.
"Mexico is not going to negotiate on the basis of pressure, Mexico is very clear about what works and what doesn't work for us," said Pena Nieto's spokesman, Eduardo Sanchez.
"If an agreement is reached, it will be one that truly benefits Mexico. If these conditions don't exist, Mexico will not move forward," he added.
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on Thursday also said Washington was using the auto tariff probe as a negotiating tool.
However, Mexico made a new offer on autos "showing some flexibility" on Thursday, following the U.S. announcement of the national security probe into car imports, a person familiar with the talks said. It was not immediately clear if the offer encompassed other areas under negotiation.
The three sides are in constant contact, including phone calls between ministers, and further talks were likely over the weekend, the person said.
Mexico has in recent days responded to U.S. proposals with an offer that 20 percent of any auto made in North America would be produced in high-wage areas, a Mexican industry source briefed on the talks said. It was not immediately clear in what areas Mexico had shown further flexibility on Thursday.
The United States wants 40 percent of auto content to come from areas paying at least $16 hour.
Mexico has also proposed that 70 percent of overall content of a vehicle made in North America come from the region, countering a U.S. proposal of 75 percent for high-value parts.
Mexico and Canada have long demanded that the United States drop some of its most contentious ideas, including a so-called "sunset clause" to make NAFTA automatically expire if it is not renegotiated every five years.
Mexico's economy ministry did not respond to a request for comment. Chief trade negotiator Kenneth Smith took to Twitter on Thursday to defend NAFTA's role in expanding the U.S. auto sector, saying U.S. output grew 124 percent since 2009.
Trump ordered the renegotiation of NAFTA to meet a campaign promise to bring more manufacturing jobs to the United States. The nine-month long talks are now bogged down by differences over auto production.
Once again courting voters in the U.S. industrial heartland, this time ahead of mid-term elections later this year, Trump says NAFTA has killed U.S. jobs and has threatened to scrap the deal.
Japan's foreign minister, Taro Kono, told reporters in Mexico City on Thursday that his Mexican counterpart, Luis Videgaray, had promised to protect the interests of Japanese firms in NAFTA talks.
"He repeated that he would protect the interests of Japanese companies, for which we are very grateful," Kono said. Major Japanese auto makers including Toyota Motor Corp and Nissan Motor Co Ltd have sizeable operations in Mexico.

Like I was saying the biggest sticking point is on foreign auto manufacturers assembling their vehicles in Canada, and Mexico shipping to the States under the NAFTA agreement
 

Curious Cdn

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It would help if the North American (former "big three") car manufacturers didn't design and build crap. Ford has finally got the message and will dicontinue making their appallingly dismal conventional passenger cars. Driving around these days, it's quite uncommon to see any GMs on the road at all around here and, accept for their minivans, not a lot of Chrysler product, as well.The roads are full of BMWs, Honda/Accura, Toyota/Lexus, Hyundai, VW/Audi, Subarus ...because they work and because they are ergonomic and intelligently designed. The "big three" never quite "got" it. 45 years after the Saudi oil crisis, GM still hasn't figured out how to make a good four cylinder engine. Typically, the North American manufacturers blame the foreigners for their own engineering and marketing shortcomings.
 

JLM

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CTV is reporting that Trump is agitating about the current negotiations , saying again that NAFTA is the worst deal for the us. and other Trump language comments ( on Twitter of course ) Is voicing threats to tear it up.

what do folks her e think are tho odds of him tearing it up and creating even more chaos between the three nations??

Anyway you slice it.......the bloke is a wrecking ball.that goes ballistic via twitter.

Hard to tell which trump content comes close to becoming factual......his WORDS ON Twitter, hIS WORDS VIA TELEPROMPTER, OR HIS CHAOTIC VERBAL RAMBLINGS AT HIS RALLIES.

mE THINKS HE IS GOING TO TRY AND TRASH NAFTA

Who is Will Tump?
 

Ocean Breeze

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Trump says he won't sign any NAFTA deal until after midterms even as Canada starts tariffs on U.S. products

President Trump told Maria Bartiromo on Fox News that he wants to "wait until after the election" to sign any new agreement with Canada and Mexico and seemed to indicate there won't be an end soon to the ongoing trade battle brewing between the United States and its neighbors.

Trump angered Canada and Mexico by putting hefty tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, citing national security concerns.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has called the tariffs "insulting and unacceptable," and he retaliated today by putting tariffs on $12.6 billion worth of U.S. products.

Mexican voters are going to the polls today to elect a new president, and the front-runner is known for his populist policies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-until-after-midterms/?utm_term=.42065e020d0f


Trump is a GAMBLER ....
 

JLM

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Trump says he won't sign any NAFTA deal until after midterms even as Canada starts tariffs on U.S. products

President Trump told Maria Bartiromo on Fox News that he wants to "wait until after the election" to sign any new agreement with Canada and Mexico and seemed to indicate there won't be an end soon to the ongoing trade battle brewing between the United States and its neighbors.

Trump angered Canada and Mexico by putting hefty tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, citing national security concerns.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has called the tariffs "insulting and unacceptable," and he retaliated today by putting tariffs on $12.6 billion worth of U.S. products.

Mexican voters are going to the polls today to elect a new president, and the front-runner is known for his populist policies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-until-after-midterms/?utm_term=.42065e020d0f


Trump is a GAMBLER ....


Is Canada getting a little to excited over these tariffs? We have the ability to decide what we are going to buy and sell, especially in the summer time. There's nothing carved in stone that we need Heinz Ketchup. I think Trump forgets there's 200 other countries in the world we can deal with, so maybe we should just tell him to go f**k himself. Maybe if he gets really snotty we can just shut his power off! :lol: Bottom line is we are NOT going to starve to death!
 

Ocean Breeze

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Is Canada getting a little to excited over these tariffs? We have the ability to decide what we are going to buy and sell, especially in the summer time. There's nothing carved in stone that we need Heinz Ketchup. I think Trump forgets there's 200 other countries in the world we can deal with, so maybe we should just tell him to go f**k himself. Maybe if he gets really snotty we can just shut his power off! :lol: Bottom line is we are NOT going to starve to death!
How strong is our trade relations with China?? India ? EU?? I agree we need to branch out and develop stronger ties with other countries and become less US dependant. Geographically the US is "convenient.: ........but at some point...... we need to be even more global.

wonder what Trump's counter punch will be to the tarries that we put in place today by CDA> He is agitating t go after vehicles.

the thing is that the tarries he has imposed are ILLEGAL. (but that doesn't bother him) Maybe the countries affected by this trump move should collectively SUE the USG.........as that is the only language they seems to understand.

People who are professionals in the know .......say it will probably get worse before it gets better. Not dramatic , just matter of fact.
 

JLM

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How strong is our trade relations with China?? India ? EU?? I agree we need to branch out and develop stronger ties with other countries and become less US dependant. Geographically the US is "convenient.: ........but at some point...... we need to be even more global.

wonder what Trump's counter punch will be to the tarries that we put in place today by CDA> He is agitating t go after vehicles.

the thing is that the tarries he has imposed are ILLEGAL. (but that doesn't bother him) Maybe the countries affected by this trump move should collectively SUE the USG.........as that is the only language they seems to understand.

People who are professionals in the know .......say it will probably get worse before it gets better. Not dramatic , just matter of fact.

I never knew there was such a thing as illegal tariffs. I think you'll probably see him revoke a lot of them on July 4.
 

Twin_Moose

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How strong is our trade relations with China?? India ? EU?? I agree we need to branch out and develop stronger ties with other countries and become less US dependant. Geographically the US is "convenient.: ........but at some point...... we need to be even more global.

wonder what Trump's counter punch will be to the tarries that we put in place today by CDA> He is agitating t go after vehicles.

the thing is that the tarries he has imposed are ILLEGAL. (but that doesn't bother him) Maybe the countries affected by this trump move should collectively SUE the USG.........as that is the only language they seems to understand.

People who are professionals in the know .......say it will probably get worse before it gets better. Not dramatic , just matter of fact.


China laughed JT out of the country, JT pissed off India enough to create a world wide incident, the EU agreement is next to dead, and now sides with Mexico on NAFTA. So where do we trade tariff free? TPP I guess
 

White_Unifier

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China laughed JT out of the country, JT pissed off India enough to create a world wide incident, the EU agreement is next to dead, and now sides with Mexico on NAFTA. So where do we trade tariff free? TPP I guess

Even the TPP does not allow totally free trade as far as I know. I think it still maintains some protections in some key areas like culture and agriculture though Canada had the sense to at least reduce the tariffs on agricultural products which is still a big improvement. I hope TPP 2 will come soon enough.

Trump says he won't sign any NAFTA deal until after midterms even as Canada starts tariffs on U.S. products

President Trump told Maria Bartiromo on Fox News that he wants to "wait until after the election" to sign any new agreement with Canada and Mexico and seemed to indicate there won't be an end soon to the ongoing trade battle brewing between the United States and its neighbors.

Trump angered Canada and Mexico by putting hefty tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, citing national security concerns.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has called the tariffs "insulting and unacceptable," and he retaliated today by putting tariffs on $12.6 billion worth of U.S. products.

Mexican voters are going to the polls today to elect a new president, and the front-runner is known for his populist policies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-until-after-midterms/?utm_term=.42065e020d0f


Trump is a GAMBLER ....

He loved his people so much that he opened up casinos to get as many of them as possible hooked on gambling to wipe out their life savings. That's character for you. Anything for money as long as it's legal eh.
 
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Ron in Regina

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It would help if the North American (former "big three") car manufacturers didn't design and build crap. Ford has finally got the message and will dicontinue making their appallingly dismal conventional passenger cars. Driving around these days, it's quite uncommon to see any GMs on the road at all around here and, accept for their minivans, not a lot of Chrysler product, as well.The roads are full of BMWs, Honda/Accura, Toyota/Lexus, Hyundai, VW/Audi, Subarus ...because they work and because they are ergonomic and intelligently designed. The "big three" never quite "got" it. 45 years after the Saudi oil crisis, GM still hasn't figured out how to make a good four cylinder engine. Typically, the North American manufacturers blame the foreigners for their own engineering and marketing shortcomings.


Wow, that's so dead on!! Out on the Prairies we still see lots of "the big three" vehicles on the road, but I'm in an industry that relies on 1Ton Trucks. There are no other options in that market beyond the GMC & Dodge 3500's or the Ford F350, and they're all three just problematic junk. We keep buying them because there just isn't any other choice. I'd love to see something like Toyota enter into the 1Ton truck market.
 

Curious Cdn

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Wow, that's so dead on!! Out on the Prairies we still see lots of "the big three" vehicles on the road, but I'm in an industry that relies on 1Ton Trucks. There are no other options in that market beyond the GMC & Dodge 3500's or the Ford F350, and they're all three just problematic junk. We keep buying them because there just isn't any other choice. I'd love to see something like Toyota enter into the 1Ton truck market.

I bought my daughter (19 year old) a second hand Ford Focus wagon (cheap, from little old lady) to tootle around in, get to jobs, school, etc. What a bizarrely designed automobile. For example, there is a storage console under the driver's right arm rest. To reach the seat belt, you have to flip the whole arm rest consule forward all the way to reach the buckle.

WTF is with that? Some engineering team got PAID for that crap? Corporate allowed it into into production? If that is typical of the sloppy, lax design work that Ford does, all I can say is stay the hell out of their death traps.
 

Ron in Regina

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I bought my daughter (19 year old) a second hand Ford Focus wagon (cheap, from little old lady) to tootle around in, get to jobs, school, etc. What a bizarrely designed automobile. For example, there is a storage console under the driver's right arm rest. To reach the seat belt, you have to flip the whole arm rest consule forward all the way to reach the buckle.

WTF is with that? Some engineering team got PAID for that crap? Corporate allowed it into into production? If that is typical of the sloppy, lax design work that Ford does, all I can say is stay the hell out of their death traps.


There are sixteen 3/4Ton or 1Ton trucks in our fleet. These are not inexpensive vehicles. They're all problematic at best. These are all Diesel Trucks. They're all either GMC or Dodge or Ford. There's room for competition in that market. The pricing is horrible, and the quality is horrible. One of our Leased Operators had a piston collapse at less than 7000km on the odometer, and his wife who's also a Leased Operator on our fleet had a final Bill of Sale from the dealership on her 1Ton truck once outfitted with a fifth wheel at just shy of $120,000.00......that's just sick!! Another Leased Operator on our fleet has a truck (less than a year old) that she's afraid to leave home with because it's soooooo issue prone that her completing a delivery without an electrical issue is like flipping a coin and the manufacturer through the dealer is trying to weasel out on standing behind their product. Try earning a living as a Hauler with that as your truck.
 

Curious Cdn

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There are sixteen 3/4Ton or 1Ton trucks in our fleet. These are not inexpensive vehicles. They're all problematic at best. These are all Diesel Trucks. They're all either GMC or Dodge or Ford. There's room for competition in that market. The pricing is horrible, and the quality is horrible. One of our Leased Operators had a piston collapse at less than 7000km on the odometer, and his wife who's also a Leased Operator on our fleet had a final Bill of Sale from the dealership on her 1Ton truck once outfitted with a fifth wheel at just shy of $120,000.00......that's just sick!! Another Leased Operator on our fleet has a truck (less than a year old) that she's afraid to leave home with because it's soooooo issue prone that her completing a delivery without an electrical issue is like flipping a coin and the manufacturer through the dealer is trying to weasel out on standing behind their product. Try earning a living as a Hauler with that as your truck.

The Big Three have had decades to fix themselves. The United States has the technological know-how to fix their auto industry (look at their armaments industry) but they have not ... because they are arrogant.
 

Ron in Regina

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The Big Three have had decades to fix themselves. The United States has the technological know-how to fix their auto industry (look at their armaments industry) but they have not ... because they are arrogant.


In our case (1Ton trucks) they don't have to. We have no choice but to buy their crap. Since 2008 with DPF Filters and Def Systems, power has gone down and mileage has gone down and quality has gone down....and there's only Ford & GMC & Dodge to choose from. Once a truck is off warranty, it's illegal to remove these problematic inefficient systems from commercial vehicles also. I'd venture to estimate (in our experience) that about 85% of all service downtime ties back to DEF systems or electrical issues, or electrical issues that tie back to DEF systems...how wrong is that?



Toyota overbuilds their Tundra & Tacoma trucks (but they're too small for what we do), but the "Big Three" just barely build them to fit into the class that they're in for 1Tons. It's so blatantly gross but without competition in that market, they can continue to make junk and we'll continue to buy them because we have to.
 

JLM

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It would help if the North American (former "big three") car manufacturers didn't design and build crap. Ford has finally got the message and will dicontinue making their appallingly dismal conventional passenger cars. Driving around these days, it's quite uncommon to see any GMs on the road at all around here and, accept for their minivans, not a lot of Chrysler product, as well.The roads are full of BMWs, Honda/Accura, Toyota/Lexus, Hyundai, VW/Audi, Subarus ...because they work and because they are ergonomic and intelligently designed. The "big three" never quite "got" it. 45 years after the Saudi oil crisis, GM still hasn't figured out how to make a good four cylinder engine. Typically, the North American manufacturers blame the foreigners for their own engineering and marketing shortcomings.


I could never figure out why G.M. discontinued Oldsmobiles. They always a good reliable middle class vehicle. I suppose there may have been a redundancy with the Buick.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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For a variety of reasons we've had to create our own trucks, but one of those reasons is to get away from the meager offerings in the 1Ton truck market.









At least you didn't have to build your daughter a car to avoid the crap offered by the "Big Three."
 

Sons of Liberty

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Canadians on the left have been complaining NAFTA has been a bad deal since its inception, you're getting what you asked for, so what's the issue?
 

Hoid

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the issue is that Trump is an idiot.

not sure how anyone could be wondering about that at this late date.