Why would anyone trust the Liberals, the NDP or the Bloc?

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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I have done alot of things that I really didn't feel like doing, as well. All I ask for is .1% of BG's success. :)

We could party for a week on that! :lol:


Not sure if "falling for" is quite the correct term- we learnt in school she did make that quote and never had reason to disbelieve it...........but by the same token I wouldn't the pension cheque on it. :smile:
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
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He may be your type of guy, but it's plain as day that the two of you do not see eye-to-eye on this issue at all. Though the way you're framing it is a bit of a strawman. Bill Gates doesn't wish to pay more taxes because he doesn't need all his money, he wants to give more because he is in a position to do so. In fact I'm sure he feels his foundation can target the resources more effectively than his taxes can, but at the same time, if he pays more taxes he can alleviate the pressure on the middle class. That's an important distinction.

The strawman is the issue of equality. Those who demand equality NEVER, EVER are willing to give equal treatment to those who are more successful than they are. The freeloaders take for granted that all people who are more successful and richer than they are stole their wealth from some poor and more deserving person, or in the words of one of the biggest fraud in American history, 'won life's lottery'.

If equality is such a great concern, why not equal taxation rate?
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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He may be your type of guy, but it's plain as day that the two of you do not see eye-to-eye on this issue at all. Though the way you're framing it is a bit of a strawman. Bill Gates doesn't wish to pay more taxes because he doesn't need all his money, he wants to give more because he is in a position to do so. In fact I'm sure he feels his foundation can target the resources more effectively than his taxes can, but at the same time, if he pays more taxes he can alleviate the pressure on the middle class. That's an important distinction.

So what it all boils down to is B.G. himself is probably the only who knows what his motivation is. :smile:

The strawman is the issue of equality. Those who demand equality NEVER, EVER are willing to give equal treatment to those who are more successful than they are. The freeloaders take for granted that all people who are more successful and richer than they are stole their wealth from some poor and more deserving person, or in the words of one of the biggest fraud in American history, 'won life's lottery'.

If equality is such a great concern, why not equal taxation rate?

You lost me there - Who would be the biggest fraud in American History? I'm guessing Nixon???????????
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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We could party for a week on that! :lol:

Or...spend that money on programs to eradicate malaria, or programs to make education available through college and graduate level scholarships. Bill Gates ran Microsoft for a long time, he knows a thing or two about investing for the future.

The present fiscal talks are debating how to address the debt, and you have one side who refuses to budge from anything but cut cut cut, and another side willing to make some cuts, but who also realize that the economic situation in the US is a systemic problem, that requires investment.

I'd love for any of you to find someone prominent who wants to raise taxes on folks like Bill Gates so they can party. What a joke. I guess that's what happens when you demagogue people and pigeon hole them as jealous envious lazy slobs.

So what it all boils down to is B.G. himself is probably the only who knows what his motivation is. :smile:

He's not exactly inconspicuous now is he? His views are widely available in public. Try any of his TED talks for starters. Then try the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Or his talks with former President Bill Clinton, as part of his initiative.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Myths endure. Some people use these figures of speech so much, that they tend to lose their meaning. I call it the dilution of language. Afterall, what good is it to have the word "cat" if people use it to describe a dog....

You mean like Guinea Pig?
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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If equality is such a great concern, why not equal taxation rate?

Because the world isn't black and white. How about equal ability to pay? Should a minimum wage college student working their way through their degrees pay the same taxes as Bill Gates?
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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The strawman is the issue of equality. Those who demand equality NEVER, EVER are willing to give equal treatment to those who are more successful than they are.

No one really demands complete equality, but rational people recognize that gross inequality is dangerous.


The freeloaders take for granted that all people who are more successful and richer than they are stole their wealth from some poor and more deserving person, or in the words of one of the biggest fraud in American history, 'won life's lottery'.
 

YukonJack

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Dec 26, 2008
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So what it all boils down to is B.G. himself is probably the only who knows what his motivation is. :smile:



You lost me there - Who would be the biggest fraud in American History? I'm guessing Nixon???????????

JLM, in a moment of temporary loss of memory, attributable of advanced age you are so fond of reminding me of, I forgot the name of Dick Gephardt.

So, there.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Or...spend that money on programs to eradicate malaria, or programs to make education available through college and graduate level scholarships. Bill Gates ran Microsoft for a long time, he knows a thing or two about investing for the future.

The present fiscal talks are debating how to address the debt, and you have one side who refuses to budge from anything but cut cut cut, and another side willing to make some cuts, but who also realize that the economic situation in the US is a systemic problem, that requires investment.

I'd love for any of you to find someone prominent who wants to raise taxes on folks like Bill Gates so they can party. What a joke. I guess that's what happens when you demagogue people and pigeon hole them as jealous envious lazy slobs.



QUOTE]

I think you missed the "LOL" :lol:

JLM, in a moment of temporary loss of memory, attributable of advanced age you are so fond of reminding me of, I forgot the name of Dick Gephardt.

So, there.

That name rings a bell............in a positive light but I can't quite place him.
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
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Why is inequality dangerous, unless it is motivated and dominated by unreasonable greed, envy and hate, which, by the way, all socialism is motivated and dominated by. Whose business is what I have? Whose business is what Bill Gates is worth?

Bill Gates was NOT born into wealth. Everything he has, he EARNED. To a much, much smaller degree, everything I have I earned. As long as both Mr. Gates and I pay the taxes described and dictated by law, it should be obvious that only those with larceny, envy, hate, jealousy, theft and greed in their genes demand more, so that the freeloaders can waste and use up more than the State can provide.

Demanding unequal equality is the height of hypocrisy and the most distinguishing description of Marxism. Useful idiots of that failed system are welcome in Cuba, China and Venezuela. But leave us alone here!
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Bill Gates was NOT born into wealth. Everything he has, he EARNED.

He went to prep school...he had opportunities from a young age. His parents intended for him to go to law school. No silver spoon to be sure, but he didn't have the same barriers to bettering himself that others have. Again, this is clear as mud to him, and he recognizes fully that the American economy will need to transform. To do that, they need to make education a priority. There are many unemployed in the US right now, but with some education there are many jobs which could be filled.

With my education and an American citizenship, I could apply for all sorts of jobs down there, some that pay much better than my salary here in PEI. There are lots of jobs for the knowledge economy.

You are constantly playing the individual card here, when the proponents of wealth distribution like Bill Gates and countless others are looking at investing in their countries future. I wonder if you will ever admit that...
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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That's a very generous interpretation of history. The MO of the NDP and Bloc was to oppose any and everything forwarded by the gvt and to make a big show of it in order to pander to their supporters... Both of the aforementioned parties raced to be the first to speak-out in order to leave the real decision to the last minority partner.

Similar things can be said about the Cons, in regards to their constant attack adds, the only difference was that rather then targeting the party's plans or things they have done, they attacked party leader's personal lives...... in regards to pandering to their supporters..... that's what every political party does or supposed to do.... pander to their voters & supporters, otherwise, what's the point of voting for them.

There were a few things the Cons presented which I supported, and there were a number of things Iggy and the Liberals started shooting off about that I just found petty and just digging for excuses to oppose...... and while Layton & the NDP did that from time to time (all the parties, including the Cons do this) most of the time when Layton of the NDP bring up a concern, I feel it's valid and I agree.... which is why I support them. Layton generally brings up good points, speaks in clear, plain english about the subject and most of the time, sounds very reasonable about his concerns or changes he'd like to have addressed.

Not always, but none of them are always reasonable.

In the end, it doesn't really matter because any sincere opposition by the NDP, Bloc and Libs would have had to be a coordinated effort in order to have any impact... Layton and the Bloc knew this and that's why all of their chest-thumping was nothing more than show.

Indeed, it required the other party with the other seats to be stable and consistent, but the Liberals were nothing of the sort and I strongly believe that's another reason why they ended up where they are today.

They were too incompetent to lead the nation and too incompetent to be main opposition.

No.. My memory is very good. As I had mentioned above, the Bloc and Layton were not good for anything more than a lot of hot air; in fact, if memory serves, I believe that Layton made a big show about desperately wanting to go over to Afghanistan to "talk some sense into those Taliban fellows"... At the time, there was some very serious financial support in my area of Western Canada to charter a plane to take ole Smilin' Jack over to Kandahar before he could change his mind.

I don't remember too much about that situation to comment one way or another.

The point being, the NDP is nothing but show and that's no different than all of the chest-thumping that Layton has made a career of.

Well now he has more of an opportunity to put his money where his mouth is.... not much of one being the main opposition in a majority government, but he still has more sway then the Liberals do now.

Besides as mentioned before, they all chest thump & Layton isn't anymore worse then any of the others..... Dion and Iggy constantly chest thumped and riled everybody up, but when it came to crunch time and to vote, they back peddled and changed their minds at the last minute & either voted in favor of what they were complaining about, or simply didn't vote & walked out..... at least Layton & the Bloc still represented their voters and still voted based on how they said they would vote.

I won't disagree with you on any of this. To be perfectly honest, the results that wiped-out the Bloc was straight out of left-field. I don't know a single person that saw that coming.

Agreed.
 

Chev

Electoral Member
Feb 10, 2009
374
2
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Alberta
I don't know..... because living life not trusting, just on principle, is a miserable way to live your life?

"Why would anyone trust any political party?"
"I don't know..... because living life not trusting, just on principle, is a miserable way to live your life?"

Perhaps these days a person needs to vote for who they dis-trust the least??
 

Omicron

Privy Council
Jul 28, 2010
1,694
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Vancouver
Canadians must not be held hostage by a union that is already grossly over paid.

How is it grossly overpaid?

By global standards of $6000 per year?

By your standard of living subject to corporate MBAs who bonus themselves millions of dollars per year at the cost of keeping you, their worker, down in the dumps?

Will you please give me one logical explanation why if our ancestors came here to have a better standard of living we should immediately piss it away to China just so some MBAs can take a cut on the wealth's the way out?
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
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The strawman is the issue of equality. Those who demand equality NEVER, EVER are willing to give equal treatment to those who are more successful than they are. The freeloaders take for granted that all people who are more successful and richer than they are stole their wealth from some poor and more deserving person, or in the words of one of the biggest fraud in American history, 'won life's lottery'.

If equality is such a great concern, why not equal taxation rate?

Simply a misconception of what success means. Most of the wealthiest people in the world are assholes. Worse are those who are wealthy and in some position of power over others.

Regrettably those who have found happiness are often judged as inferior do to a lack of wealth and power.
 

Omicron

Privy Council
Jul 28, 2010
1,694
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Vancouver
Simply a misconception of what success means. Most of the wealthiest people in the world are assholes. Worse are those who are wealthy and in some position of power over others.

Regrettably those who have found happiness are often judged as inferior do to a lack of wealth and power.

Yeah... some tens of thousands of years ago a similar debate happened between Cro Magnon and Neandertal.

But it wasn't totally cleaned out. Turns out there was some interbreeding (mostly rape of female Cro Magnon by male Neanderthals) such that today fluctuations of Neandertal thinking will rise and fall according to the drift of the DNA.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
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Yeah... some tens of thousands of years ago a similar debate happened between Cro Magnon and Neandertal.

But it wasn't totally cleaned out. Turns out there was some interbreeding (mostly rape of female Cro Magnon by male Neanderthals) such that today fluctuations of Neandertal thinking will rise and fall according to the drift of the DNA.

And that in breeding continues today.

 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
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Winnipeg
Simply a misconception of what success means. Most of the wealthiest people in the world are assholes. Worse are those who are wealthy and in some position of power over others.

Regrettably those who have found happiness are often judged as inferior do to a lack of wealth and power.

To an incompetent, every person who owns even just a penny more, than he/she does is an asshole. Nothing promotes hate more than envy. And nothing promotes envy more than incompetence and stupidity, with the possible exception of gross overestimation of self-worth, inability to recognize and admit personal limitation. The driving force behind unions, socialism and nonsense like the one expressed by Unforgiven.

Congratulations to Omicron and Unforgiven. They REALLY know their ancestry.