Why would anyone trust the Liberals, the NDP or the Bloc?
- Thread starter The Old Medic
- Start date
Ah yes, of course those that believe that they are OWED a living by the government support the Liberals and the NDP. They do not beliebve that THEY should be required to work for anything. And, those that HAVE worked hard, and made a fortune through their own sweat and intellect, should have that wealth taken from them so that the lazy can live comfortably.
Personally, I believe that government has an obligation to care for children that are not cared for, and for those that are so disabled that they can NOT support themselves.
But other than that, the healthy should either be required to perform hard manual labor for their food/shelter, or get it on their own. If they refuse to work, take their children away and let the lazy slugs die out. If forced to work or starve, I would be willing to bet that very few of them would starve.
Nobody is owed a comfortable living that is capable of performing work. NOBODY. And any society that provides such people with free housing, free food and free medical care is on the way to its own destruction.
It is sad that almost no one bothers to read Gibbons today. His "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" should be required reading for ALL High School students. You can see exactly what has eventually brought down every great society in the history of the world showing up in the governments of Europe and most of North America.
Once the people learn that they can vote in subsistence, the society is doomed. And there has never been a single society in history that has not fallen once its people learned that they could do that. Western Europe is financially bankrupt now, and Canada and the USA are not very far behind.
But the plebes don't care. As long as they get their "bread and circuses", they don't give a damn about society as a whole. Now days, instead of slaughter in the Colliseums, we have hockey, soccer, American Football and other sports that we can watch in the comfort of our homes, while living off government doles.
Personally, I believe that government has an obligation to care for children that are not cared for, and for those that are so disabled that they can NOT support themselves.
But other than that, the healthy should either be required to perform hard manual labor for their food/shelter, or get it on their own. If they refuse to work, take their children away and let the lazy slugs die out. If forced to work or starve, I would be willing to bet that very few of them would starve.
Nobody is owed a comfortable living that is capable of performing work. NOBODY. And any society that provides such people with free housing, free food and free medical care is on the way to its own destruction.
It is sad that almost no one bothers to read Gibbons today. His "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" should be required reading for ALL High School students. You can see exactly what has eventually brought down every great society in the history of the world showing up in the governments of Europe and most of North America.
Once the people learn that they can vote in subsistence, the society is doomed. And there has never been a single society in history that has not fallen once its people learned that they could do that. Western Europe is financially bankrupt now, and Canada and the USA are not very far behind.
But the plebes don't care. As long as they get their "bread and circuses", they don't give a damn about society as a whole. Now days, instead of slaughter in the Colliseums, we have hockey, soccer, American Football and other sports that we can watch in the comfort of our homes, while living off government doles.
you do realize that I support unions, and I support the Conservatives. I think there are others on this website that are the same, but I am not sure.
Welfare is only a small part of Liberal and NDP platforms, and I'll agree these systems need reform to prevent abuse by people who are capable of working. But thats at a provincial level, not federal. Also, find me a Conservative Premier or Prime Minister who would abolish it.
A "minimum wage student working their way through college" would NEVER pay the same taxes as Bill Gates. Bill Gates pays MILLIONS of dollars every year in taxes.
You see, that's the fallacy of these folks argument. They love to pull out things like, 'it isn't fair that we pay the same taxes', etc, and sadly, they even believe that they pay the same taxes. But they don't, and they never have.
The rich pay the VAST majority of the income taxes in the US and in Canada. They pay a LOT more than their "fair share".
But envy is always present. People that are lazy; people that refused to obtain an education; people that refused to advance their chances in life turn around and blame everyone else for THEIR failures in life.
The people are not entitled to anything more from government than an equal opportunity.
And do NOT attempt to claim that we do not have equal opportunities. I am a classic example of the fact that we do. I came out of a very, very poor family (as a child, on more than one occasion the ONLY thing we had to eat was dry dog food). I NEVER saw a dentist in my life until I enlisted in the Army. I was legally blind without glasses, but my mother refused to even have my eyes examined.
I was physically abused from early childhood into my teens; I was sexually molested by both my mother and by a step-father (with her full knowledge); my mother was married 8 times while I was still living at home; I attended 28 DIFFERENT schools in 5 DIFFERENT states between the 1st and 11th grades (and I never graduated from High School).
I entered the US Army at the age of 16 (illegally) and stayed in the Army for 9 years, 11 months and 12 days. After leaving the Army, I went to a Community College in California and graduated with an Associate of Arts Degree (with honors) in 3 semesters.
I then went to California State University-Fresno, where I completed my Bachelor's Degree in Psychology in 3 more semesters. I then completed a dual Masters Degree program in Clinical Psychology and in Rehabilitation Counseling in 2 years. During ALL of my time in college, I worked every Friday and Saturday night in emergency rooms as a nurse, to provide for myself and my two daughters.
I then went to work as a professional Rehabilitation Counselor. I later completed my Ed.D Degree at the University of San Francisco (a Jesuit University).
If a person from a background like mine could make it into professional ranks; could complete college with honors, and could become a professional earning a good living (but NOT an rich one, having NEVER earned over $150,000 in any year), then so can anyone else with a decent mind and a strong desire to do so.
The opportunities are there for the taking. People need to stop complaining, and start taking care of their own needs.
You see, that's the fallacy of these folks argument. They love to pull out things like, 'it isn't fair that we pay the same taxes', etc, and sadly, they even believe that they pay the same taxes. But they don't, and they never have.
The rich pay the VAST majority of the income taxes in the US and in Canada. They pay a LOT more than their "fair share".
But envy is always present. People that are lazy; people that refused to obtain an education; people that refused to advance their chances in life turn around and blame everyone else for THEIR failures in life.
The people are not entitled to anything more from government than an equal opportunity.
And do NOT attempt to claim that we do not have equal opportunities. I am a classic example of the fact that we do. I came out of a very, very poor family (as a child, on more than one occasion the ONLY thing we had to eat was dry dog food). I NEVER saw a dentist in my life until I enlisted in the Army. I was legally blind without glasses, but my mother refused to even have my eyes examined.
I was physically abused from early childhood into my teens; I was sexually molested by both my mother and by a step-father (with her full knowledge); my mother was married 8 times while I was still living at home; I attended 28 DIFFERENT schools in 5 DIFFERENT states between the 1st and 11th grades (and I never graduated from High School).
I entered the US Army at the age of 16 (illegally) and stayed in the Army for 9 years, 11 months and 12 days. After leaving the Army, I went to a Community College in California and graduated with an Associate of Arts Degree (with honors) in 3 semesters.
I then went to California State University-Fresno, where I completed my Bachelor's Degree in Psychology in 3 more semesters. I then completed a dual Masters Degree program in Clinical Psychology and in Rehabilitation Counseling in 2 years. During ALL of my time in college, I worked every Friday and Saturday night in emergency rooms as a nurse, to provide for myself and my two daughters.
I then went to work as a professional Rehabilitation Counselor. I later completed my Ed.D Degree at the University of San Francisco (a Jesuit University).
If a person from a background like mine could make it into professional ranks; could complete college with honors, and could become a professional earning a good living (but NOT an rich one, having NEVER earned over $150,000 in any year), then so can anyone else with a decent mind and a strong desire to do so.
The opportunities are there for the taking. People need to stop complaining, and start taking care of their own needs.
This isn't the US. The role of government here has taken on a very different role from what the American one has. Its been that way for decades.
The Bill Gates example is irrelevant in this discussion as he isn't Canadian.
Structurally yes, philosophically No. :smile:
Getting slightly off topic WLDB, when I was 23 I was a strong N.D.P.er now I'm nothing. First of all no political party deserves followers and slaves. Second Socialism only works when all members contribute their share plus 5%. Contrary to the concept of them being for the working man, they are for the man who is on a payroll! :smile:
I happen to be a member of the NDP, but I don't agree with everything in the platform and I've only voted for them once. I only joined as their platform was the closest in line to what my beliefs are and its easier to try to influence a party from within rather than wait for the parties to come to you and tell you what your options are. I'm far from a slavish follower. I'm probably one of the few members who wants Layton to be replaced by the next election and I don't like some of the moves he has made in the past. There is no perfect political party anywhere, at least not that I've heard of.
I'm not for all out socialism, I agree it wouldn't work. But neither does unbridled capitalism as one can see by just looking at economic history. There has to be a balance between the two.
"Why would anyone trust the Liberals, the NDP or the Bloc?"
Better yet, why would anybody trust the Conservatives? What have they done that has been of benefit to Canada or Canadians? The left and right wing loonies in this country are so polarized, they can't see past their noses. You would think we were talking about hockey.
Better yet, why would anybody trust the Conservatives? What have they done that has been of benefit to Canada or Canadians? The left and right wing loonies in this country are so polarized, they can't see past their noses. You would think we were talking about hockey.
Right...that's because the tax system is progressive. A flat tax is regressive. I know they don't pay the same, I'm asking someone who suggested a flat tax why they should pay the same. I guess that flew over your head when you decided to rant against your straw man argument.
Some people do become successful from poverty, but to use yourself as an example is bluntly ignorant. Upward mobility is clearly decreasing as the wage gap rises. This has been tied to the achievement gap which shows clear relationships to gender, race, ethnicity, and socioeconomic status.
Again, if you actually take the time to read or listen to any of Bill Gates presentations, he spends a lot of time discussing this, and how to address it to reverse the stagnation.
But hey, don't let good facts get in the way of ideology and cherry picked success stories.
Hell, why trust Republicans in the USA after Reagan supported Contra terrorists who undermined a democratically elected government? LOL!!!
American wealthy elites have $20 trillion stashed away tax free. That's a crime.
There does appear to be a double standard in both nation's politics with libs being held more accountable for their actions than righties. But such is life.
Why would you trust a politician? I will say that Jack Layton is impressing me, slightly with his ballsy new attitud, and he's not that short!
The Bill Gates example is probably more relevant than you think.
In principle, both governments operate in the same base manner; that being, the more money that you make, the more society believes that it is 'owed' a greater percentage of that money to pay for the frills (opps, I mean 'rights'). Further, Gates operates his business globally, that includes Canada where Microsoft employees Canadians (that pay income taxes), the business itself pays corp taxes and let's not forget the charitable and philanthropic activities of the man and the company.
All of this goes to funding the entitlements that Canadians are world renown for believing is their birth right.. The bottom line is that all of these services cost money and the brunt of that expense lands squarely on the shoulders of the high income earners, corporations and businesses. By in large, this very same dynamic exists in the USA as well, so I am at a loss as to how the 2 nations are really different.
That said, how is it even remotely possible that the roles of gvt between Canada and the USA are different?
Americans tend to favor smaller government whereas Canadians tend to favor larger ones. Plus the jurisdiction issues are significantly different between the States and Federal government compared to our Provinces and Federal government.
As for "entitlements that Canadians are world renown for believing is their birth right..", what we have is nothing compared to what western and northern Europeans have. They are far more socialist compared to Canada.