Why immigrate to the US?

[Praxius]

Have no idea on this. All I am saying maybe the ones that are illegal are afraid of repercussions if they come forward now, a promise that this will not happen might help.

But there in-lies the problem as it will basically imply that it's alright to do what they did and therefore more will continue to do it because these guys were cut some slack. Then they will end up with an even worse headache then now.

Why should one reward someone for breaking the country's laws and skipping past what the decent and honest person has to go through by entering legally?

I don't think anyone (at least that I know) expects to go ahead of the line, except maybe those that have been in the US a long time. Some of the ones I know are second generation illegals.

There is no such thing as second generation illegals. If you are born inside the US or any other country, you are technically a citizen of that nation in question. That is unless your parents jumped back to your home land or elsewhere to give birth and then hop the border again with the new born.... but that would just be silly.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1568/is_n5_v25/ai_14536855

"....When I was a little girl, my father told me that such a woman had burst into the U.S. embassy in Moscow and stayed until her child was born a U.S. citizen. I don't know if that story was literally true, but it was the kind of story Americans told their children to teach them important truths about their country: that to be an American was to be free; that freedom was a precious commodity, rare in the world; and that to appreciate freedom was to cheer for the woman who wanted her child to have it.......

......Wilson wants to change the U.S. Constitution to deny citizenship to children born here if their parents are illegal immigrants. The proposal is murky: Does it apply if one parent is legal? What if the mother is here on a tourist visa? What happens if one of these non-citizens marries a citizen and has children? Will those children be citizens, or shall we apply the old "one drop" rule that governed race in the Jim Crow South? What shall we do about the new underclass of uneducated non-citizens created as illegal immigrants drawn here to work have children?....."

When these illegals are caught going across the border, they should be given the opportunity then to apply for legal status.

Pssh.... what?

Oh hey you broke the law, here's an application.... :-?

That's like arresting me for possesion of a couple of joints and then handing me a bag of weed..... wtf?

Take them to the proper place, set them in the right direction. Could be they are a little confused too. A helping hand in these situations is always helpful by a local. I know when we moved to the DR part time, we thought getting a citizenship was going to be costly, and take a long time. But with the help of a local, it was a breeze. Maybe a volunteer service to help these illegals get the paperwork done, would be a good thing. Save a lot of face.

But don't forget that the US runs mostly based on Capitalism.... where's the logic in putting money into organizations to help illegal immigrants to move into the country in which is already sucking the money out of it and where your own citizens are complaining they can't find a decent job because these illegals are coming in unfairly to take the job for less?

Also, then you will have those trying to immigrate legally bitch and complain that they want more services and assistence to help their own process of getting in and claim their being treated unfairly because these illegals are getting their own system of getting in over them. Then the US has two processes of entering the country instead of one and it still won't asure that it will solve their problems.

What I believe needs to be done is to crack down on the Mexican government and attempt to get them to help educate their public on the proceedures of crossing the border and working legally. What also is needed is a crack down on the companies in the US who hire illegals over their own citizens because it's just plain cheaper.

I mean they are there, and going to stay, so accept.

Um no... round them all up, throw them on a boat and send them back to Mexico. Once they arrive, then they can be handed their proper applications to apply to come into the US.

I do not know the situation as well as you, especially emotionally. But in Canada, we say the same thing about other races coming there.

First you bitch out Canada for a few pages, claim you live in the Dom.Rep and now try and speak for Canadians?

I haven't met anybody here in Canada who gave a rats arse who came here to Canada. Most of Toronto alone is majority Asian and East Indian, BC (Mainly Vancouver) has a high population of Asians as well. Let's not even mention the current diversity in Fort MM. Perhaps in Quebec there's a few a tad cranky about forigners, but that's because of their french herritage laws and such and how they're begining to have to accomidate the immigrants wants and needs over their own culture.

I couldn't care what country, what race or whatever you are. If you want to enter Canada.... do it the proper way like everyone else and enjoy.

I just would like to see better treatment of the spanish people, and them to become legal, with no fears.

Then simply obey the law.

 

[unclepercy]

No no, I never skipped over that comment Uncle. But I read it as truth, and not a personal attack, I truly don't get why it hurt your feelings. What he said makes total sense whether you're talking about why people immigrate to the US, or why they immigrate to Canada. If you flip it around, the logic still stands. From a third world perspective, Canada may look like one heck of a desirable country to live in. But, from an American point of view, frankly, I can't imagine that it looks all that appealing except for the familiarity of it. We're too 'neck and neck' for immigration to look appealing like it does for those in the third world.

No, it (Sudan) is an insulting remark, and I will not back down. I will simply stick with what I said about your never making a moderator in the southern US. Gotta have gentility, hospitality, congeniality, personality, and most of all --------->>>> the ability to beat around the bush for at least 30 minutes before getting to the point. Then you serve your point on a platter of sweetmeats with a sincere smile.

But don't mistake this rant - there are many things that you have, that I'd LOVE to have:
youth, health, hope, -- that's enough for me.

Uncle

 

[Praxius]

Wait, you're complaining to a Canadian for not being polite enough? Hell, arn't we polite enough all the time as it is? Geez... if we keep up trying to be nice, trying to explain things to avoid arguments, trying to ignore the problems around us in the world, and say nothing.... we'll be like a retired military father who's kept it all bottled up for years.

We'd all snap and do something crazy.... CRAZY I TELLZ YA!! *Shakes by the shoulders* KAR'ZAY!!

Oh I'm sorry, I don't know where that came from, So sorry, please forgive me, my apoligies, that was rude and not Canadian of me.... here's my money, forget this ever happened, have a good day, and sleep well tonight *Hugs* (Just keep it all in Prax.... that's what we do) *starts twitching and shaking*

 

[unclepercy]

Well, you are oversimplifying the situation, Prax, but yes. Canadians haven't got the password. BTW, I am with you all the way with the illegal aliens. You've got the situation so well in hand, that I wonder if you have lived in the southern US. Such depth of understanding - very surprising. How can you extrapolate so well not actually experiencing it?

Uncle

 

[Praxius]

Well, you are oversimplifying the situation, Prax, but yes. Canadians haven't got the password. BTW, I am with you all the way with the illegal aliens. You've got the situation so well in hand, that I wonder if you have lived in the southern US. Such depth of understanding - very surprising. How can you extrapolate so well not actually experiencing it?

Uncle

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious, but I do follow and watch plenty of media, news and reports from the US, which relate only to the US. I have followed most of the concerns voters have had in this upcoming election, heard a few solutions here and there, such as the foolish ID's for illegals so they can have a valid drivers license while here (What were they smoking when they thought that up?) and other methods of sort of bending to the needs of the illegals.... but when you boil it all down, they're still illegal, jumping ahead of those who are trying to get in legally, and imo.... yes, they are taking jobs away from hard working people in the US, and they're also adding to the long waiting lists immigrants already have to deal with.

To me, it's a selfish attitude to jump the border and bypass the proper proceedures of entering a country. Now you guys have so many illegal immigrants doing plenty of jobs, that now those illegals have screwed over the legals, because now your border agencies and immigration authorities have to say to the legal immigrants "Sorry, since the jobs you normally would be let in for have been taken by illegals, and we now have to figure out what to do about them, you guys just have to wait longer"

^ Then in turn those who are trying to get in legally ponder wtf they are doing what they are doing and just decide to jump the border as well.... adding to the continual problem and making it worse each year. I mean, those who jumpped illegally are getting the jobs, they're getting handed driver's licenses..... why not?

This to me just potrays a flawed system and is begging for more people to break the law and jump the border. This isn't just a situation that is isolated to the US alone, but any country which tried to practice immigrant control in this manner would have the exact same problem.

 

[tracy]

I have to argue with one point. The jobs most of these illegals are taking would never be open to legal immigrants and they would never be taken by Americans because the employers don't pay minimum wage. If illegal immigrants didn't do them, no one would. Even for minimum wage, I think you'd be hardpressed to get many Americans on welfare to go out and do the agricultural work that illegals are doing for less. The problem is with the employer.

 

[EagleSmack]

No question. The problem is with the employer. They employ illeagal aliens because they have no voice and are too afraid to speak out so they suck it up and get paid by the bushel. It is not just in agriculture but look at all of the raids across the country in Meat Packing Plants and the nasty conditions and unfair and illegal restrictions they put on the illegal workers. Never mind the sweat shops.

 

[Praxius]

I have to argue with one point. The jobs most of these illegals are taking would never be open to legal immigrants and they would never be taken by Americans because the employers don't pay minimum wage. If illegal immigrants didn't do them, no one would. Even for minimum wage, I think you'd be hardpressed to get many Americans on welfare to go out and do the agricultural work that illegals are doing for less. The problem is with the employer.

Which is another point I forgot to bring up in my last post, yet at the same time I have to disagree:

As Eagle pointed out, besides the things I mentioned above which contradicts the whole border jumping situation (Giving things to the illegals over those seeking legal access) the employers who hire these people should face very serious charges and possibly loose their companies.... heck if it was me, I'd throw them in jail for a few years while I was at it.

But I would disagree with nobody wanting to do the jobs, such as legals and home-grown citizens. If these people sought out those jobs, they in turn would also (With their educated ways in the jobs they seek) would know very well their rights, minimum wage limitations, and eventually would force these companies to walk the line and fly straight or get told on and face massive fines or loose the company all together.

And these companies moaning that they would go out of business in the first place if they had to pay more to their employees is absolute BS. They only want to keep that nice little % of profit they're used to getting from using illegals. If they knew how to properly run their companies in the first place, they wouldn't have to worry about going out of business if they treated their workers fairly. Other companies which are working ligit seem to be doing just fine..... what's their problem?

Nobody would want to do those jobs? Well we got plenty still working at MacDonals year in and year out, and if MacDonald's can still hold employees as it does, any company can.

There's plenty of part-time jobs here in Nova Scotia alone where people who can't find something steady will work the seasonal jobs out in fields, such as berry picking and the sort..... and the people I knew who did these jobs each year were born and raised here in Nova Scotia. Saying that no Americans would want to do these jobs is somewhat narrow-viewed imo.

It all boils down to Garbage in - Garbage out. If you don't give good pay, good benifits to the people you hire and you don't seek out those who are ligitamatly qualified for the job, then you are adding to the problem, and of course if you are offering below minimum wage, then of course nobody in the US will work the jobs.

And people will work the jobs if the requirements are met by the majority. Saying that nobody else will do the job makes no sense, because if that was the case, the job would not exist in the first place.... and machines would be doing it.

To me, the illegals all have to be thrown out of the country, the companies which employ them need a severe crack down on them and those running them thrown in jail. Bring in a new system which is a lot more hard-line and effective in enforcement. Make sure there are employment guidlines which are manditory for all companies in the country, which is enforced and regulated annually.... and eventually the loopholes and other incentives which seem to fuel these people to jump the borders illegally will vanish and will have no other choice but to go through the normal legal process of entering the country.... or face immediate removal from the country in question.

If there was a system that worked efficiently on the cracking down of the illegal immigrants working, and the companies employing them, then I am pretty sure in the long run, more money would be saved in taxes and other spending by the government in the already existing systems which are failing everyday as we speak.

 

[tracy]

If you think minimum wage at McDonald's is the same as working in agriculture, you've never done either . McDonald's is a cake walk compared to working in a field in California in the hot weather. If people were willing to do any work for minimum wage we wouldn't have the number on the wellfare rolls that we do.

 

[tracy]

No question. The problem is with the employer. They employ illeagal aliens because they have no voice and are too afraid to speak out so they suck it up and get paid by the bushel. It is not just in agriculture but look at all of the raids across the country in Meat Packing Plants and the nasty conditions and unfair and illegal restrictions they put on the illegal workers. Never mind the sweat shops.

It's so sad to see how abused some of those people have been. Whether they came here legally or not doesn't excuse the abuse some employers subject them too. There must be a special place in hell for people who take advantage of the desperate like that.

 

[jellyfarm]

With all the anti-American posts on this forum it makes me wonder why the US is still the number one choice of most would-be immigrants around the world. Are the put-down-the-US-at-all-costs and the everything-wrong-in-the-world-is-the-fault-of-the-US crowds right or are they missing something?

Good post there Walter! I lived and worked in the US for almost 7 years and I never did want to leave. Guess a lot of people outside of the US have a love-hate relationship with the US. They see US as the place to pursue their dreams and achieve their goals from all the media hype and global coverage the US has with its media and entertainment.

So many of it focuses on what the US is doing because it remains the only superpower in the world or at least the only country that's willing to take on that responsibility at the moment since no other country is stepping up to the plate, with the exception of China, of course, that's building a very strong defense and army.

Wherever you go in the world, America has penetrated in some form or the other whether it's a food brand like Coca Cola or McDonald's or music (tell me who in the world doesn't know Michael Jackson or Madonna?) or films and games, clothing lines, Apple or PCs...

America has done it. It is the GURU of global marketing and they've been infiltrating foreign lands (perhaps without even knowing it) with their trends, culture and language. I mean half of Malaysian use 'Loser!, Whatever and Cool' when they speak English today. You hardly hear anyone going 'Tally ho chaps! Cheers mate! or Wanker!" because the Brits aren't as marketable as the Americans. Americans go all out to make a matchstick look irresistible to you if you wanted it.:lol:

It's all an image and it's an image that the whole world buys into no matter how much one says they hate America because no matter what they've got us all by the crotch! Haha! Literally with Levi's jeans! LOL!

Eve the Brits, Canadians, Aussies can't keep up and their ability to market themselves isn't as ambitious or forthcoming as the Yanks!

The only closest country that can compete is Japan coz they are friggin trendy and their products/ideals have a global reach too but nobody wants to immigrate there because no one speaks English so that can be a turn-off to many.

So I guess THAT'S the difference between America and the world.

 

[unclepercy]

I was afraid to look back at my post - and then I got sick. I was worried that someone would hack me to pieces. I have been on this forum for almost 3 years, and Prax - if
you are truly like your posts, and if you were eligible to run, and if you could raise the 10 billion to run - I would vote for you as President of the US. (Let me guess - you wouldn't want to run - I anticipated that.)

None of our candidates have the courage to say what you said, and you are from Nova Scotia? What? I am astounded that you can discuss what I see every d*m* day of my life with such clarity. If I were to talk with your on the phone, I guess your accent would give you away....but KUDOS to you. You have to care a lot to know this much. Thank you.

There is no way I could discuss anything about Canadian politics with the insight and knowledge you have. That's why I came here. I don't think it is going to happen for me, but posts like yours make it all worth coming back and staying here.

Uncle

Which is another point I forgot to bring up in my last post, yet at the same time I have to disagree:

As Eagle pointed out, besides the things I mentioned above which contradicts the whole border jumping situation (Giving things to the illegals over those seeking legal access) the employers who hire these people should face very serious charges and possibly loose their companies.... heck if it was me, I'd throw them in jail for a few years while I was at it.

But I would disagree with nobody wanting to do the jobs, such as legals and home-grown citizens. If these people sought out those jobs, they in turn would also (With their educated ways in the jobs they seek) would know very well their rights, minimum wage limitations, and eventually would force these companies to walk the line and fly straight or get told on and face massive fines or loose the company all together.

And these companies moaning that they would go out of business in the first place if they had to pay more to their employees is absolute BS. They only want to keep that nice little % of profit they're used to getting from using illegals. If they knew how to properly run their companies in the first place, they wouldn't have to worry about going out of business if they treated their workers fairly. Other companies which are working ligit seem to be doing just fine..... what's their problem?

Nobody would want to do those jobs? Well we got plenty still working at MacDonals year in and year out, and if MacDonald's can still hold employees as it does, any company can.

There's plenty of part-time jobs here in Nova Scotia alone where people who can't find something steady will work the seasonal jobs out in fields, such as berry picking and the sort..... and the people I knew who did these jobs each year were born and raised here in Nova Scotia. Saying that no Americans would want to do these jobs is somewhat narrow-viewed imo.

It all boils down to Garbage in - Garbage out. If you don't give good pay, good benifits to the people you hire and you don't seek out those who are ligitamatly qualified for the job, then you are adding to the problem, and of course if you are offering below minimum wage, then of course nobody in the US will work the jobs.

And people will work the jobs if the requirements are met by the majority. Saying that nobody else will do the job makes no sense, because if that was the case, the job would not exist in the first place.... and machines would be doing it.

To me, the illegals all have to be thrown out of the country, the companies which employ them need a severe crack down on them and those running them thrown in jail. Bring in a new system which is a lot more hard-line and effective in enforcement. Make sure there are employment guidlines which are manditory for all companies in the country, which is enforced and regulated annually.... and eventually the loopholes and other incentives which seem to fuel these people to jump the borders illegally will vanish and will have no other choice but to go through the normal legal process of entering the country.... or face immediate removal from the country in question.

If there was a system that worked efficiently on the cracking down of the illegal immigrants working, and the companies employing them, then I am pretty sure in the long run, more money would be saved in taxes and other spending by the government in the already existing systems which are failing everyday as we speak.

 

[unclepercy]

Jellyfarm - I don't recognize your name or know who you are, but,

I'm going to step out of my box and say something about your post. I think I have already said this, but it might not have been on this forum. Can't recall. I suggested that what America does best is marketing, just what you said. Why couldn't we mass-market Iraq and make some buckeroos on the side?

Flood them with Icees, fancy malls with chain franchises, more and more movies with dubbing or subtitling, OPRAH out the kazoo, rock and roll, fashion - and more irresistable lures. Give them a big dose of shopping therapy, couch inertia, pot bellies, and thousands of take out restaurants. Nail salons, spas, gyms, amusement parks, every sport known to man, dollar stores, etc. That ought to take their minds off their problems - overload.

Just a thought. BTW, does Iraq even have any sports? Just wondering.

Uncle

Good post there Walter! I lived and worked in the US for almost 7 years and I never did want to leave. Guess a lot of people outside of the US have a love-hate relationship with the US. They see US as the place to pursue their dreams and achieve their goals from all the media hype and global coverage the US has with its media and entertainment.

So many of it focuses on what the US is doing because it remains the only superpower in the world or at least the only country that's willing to take on that responsibility at the moment since no other country is stepping up to the plate, with the exception of China, of course, that's building a very strong defense and army.

Wherever you go in the world, America has penetrated in some form or the other whether it's a food brand like Coca Cola or McDonald's or music (tell me who in the world doesn't know Michael Jackson or Madonna?) or films and games, clothing lines, Apple or PCs...

America has done it. It is the GURU of global marketing and they've been infiltrating foreign lands (perhaps without even knowing it) with their trends, culture and language. I mean half of Malaysian use 'Loser!, Whatever and Cool' when they speak English today. You hardly hear anyone going 'Tally ho chaps! Cheers mate! or Wanker!" because the Brits aren't as marketable as the Americans. Americans go all out to make a matchstick look irresistible to you if you wanted it.:lol:

It's all an image and it's an image that the whole world buys into no matter how much one says they hate America because no matter what they've got us all by the crotch! Haha! Literally with Levi's jeans! LOL!

Eve the Brits, Canadians, Aussies can't keep up and their ability to market themselves isn't as ambitious or forthcoming as the Yanks!

The only closest country that can compete is Japan coz they are friggin trendy and their products/ideals have a global reach too but nobody wants to immigrate there because no one speaks English so that can be a turn-off to many.

So I guess THAT'S the difference between America and the world.

 

[MissAnnika]

could b the media, i mean sure ppl talk bad, but it still grabs attention doesnt it. and mayb to some ppl in 3rd world countries who are starving to death "the land of opportunity" sounds promising

 

[scratch]

could b the media, i mean sure ppl talk bad, but it still grabs attention doesnt it. and mayb to some ppl in 3rd world countries who are starving to death "the land of opportunity" sounds promising

Niki,

Best country to live in is Canada. Bet your life on it.

scratch

 

[MissAnnika]

i've already bet my life on other things already tho

 

[scratch]

i've already bet my life on other things already tho

Niki,

You have other life plans? Go for them with heart and vigor. Never let your dreams go.

s.

 

[MissAnnika]

well right now i'm in the middle of writing a 500+ page book, on top of going to college *whew*

 

[scratch]

well right now i'm in the middle of writing a 500+ page book, on top of going to college *whew*

Niki,

I am on my second book. The first has been adopted by a school board here as required reading in Enriched English Classes. I am 26 chapters into my second book.

s.

 

[MissAnnika]

wow way to go. i can only hope to be as successful with my ideas and such