Why are many Christians so intolerant of other religions and spiritual paths?

[cj44]

What about Matthew 25:31-46?

T-Bones, You have to consider Scripture in its entirety. What is one to do with John 3. Christianity is not just a belief system.

Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

T-Bones, You have to consider Scripture in its entirety. What is one to do with John 3. Christianity is not just a belief system.

Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

OK, so the concept of necessary and sufficient conditions is something you're not familiar with, I take it?

 

[taxslave]

Cliffy - it is only through Christ are we able to have direct communication with our Maker. The Bible is not the "words of men". God put in the Bible exactly what he wanted. It wasn't just a bunch if dudes writing stuff. Christians are taught by the Holy Spirit, not men. I think the problem is thinking Christianity is a "belief system". It really is not. It is a regeneration, a new birth, we are a new creation in Christ.

At least you behaved in my dream. That Beavs with all his electricity really made a mess.
More later, my friend. I got an invite to dinner. Off I go.

Buying the scam hook line and sinker

 

[Spade]

Fishers of men?
F

 

[cj44]

OK, so the concept of necessary and sufficient conditions is something you're not familiar with, I take it?

uh. my condition is sufficiently flawed. It is necessary that I have a savior. That would be Jesus.

You don't suppose those goats Jesus is talking about in Matthew 25 never did a "good work" do you?

Buying the scam hook line and sinker

taxslave, I'm buying the scam, hook line & sinker? Do explain.

 

[Cliffy]

uh. my condition is sufficiently flawed. It is necessary that I have a savior. That would be Jesus.

You don't suppose those goats Jesus is talking about in Matthew 25 never did a "good work" do you?

Goat give milk and cheese and often give of their life so they can be eaten. Those are pretty good deeds, I would say. Used to raise goats and I was always thankful for their sacrifices.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

uh. my condition is sufficiently flawed. It is necessary that I have a savior. That would be Jesus.

Sigh. "Well, I'm just a dumb-a ss with faith" gets awfully tedious.

A necessary condition is a condition that you must have to achieve the end. A sufficient condition is a condition that, without any other condition, can achieve the end. All your bible quotations say is that you must have faith to be saved. None of the verses you have quoted so far say that faith, by itself, is sufficient for salvation.

You don't suppose those goats Jesus is talking about in Matthew 25 never did a "good work" do you?

Hey, it's your bible. You choose to say that being a believer, by itself, gets you saved. I'm just pointing out that on at least one occasion, your god said otherwise. You may bullsh*t and waffle as much as you like. I'm looking at the plain meaning of the text.

 

[Spade]

For the Evangelical there is little tolerance for Orthodox/Catholic Christians let alone people of other faiths.

Why saying "Yes" to Gerry was so hard, well impossible. The faith/works divide is just one fissure of men.
Are Catholics Saved? - John MacArthur - YouTube

 

[Locutus]

Everyone has the right to be wrong.

 

[taxslave]

Forgive them, they do not know what they are doing.

You are forgiven.

uh. my condition is sufficiently flawed. It is necessary that I have a savior. That would be Jesus.

You don't suppose those goats Jesus is talking about in Matthew 25 never did a "good work" do you?


taxslave, I'm buying the scam, hook line & sinker? Do explain.

All the BS in the bible. It is a book written by men with an agenda many years after the alleged events took place. To believe in a supreme being is a huge stretch of the imagination but to believe everything wtitten in your bible is the literal truth defies logic.

 

[Spade]

Everyone has the right to be wrong.

Mein Gott im Himmel! Even those who cry, "Gott Mit Uns!"?

Locutus, you are getting soft.

 

[cj44]

T-Bones, it is most difficult to convey meaning in bits and pieces. I shall spare you any more bible quotes at this time. My only intent in regards to scripture and its meaning is that it is best comprehended & understood within context of the entire book. In regards to Matthew 25. Certainly the sheep will do good works, but those good works are not what saves them. I did not mean to suggest that Christians are free to never help their neighbor.

Taxslave, Thank You for your forgiving spirit.

Can you tell me why it is a stretch of the imagination for you to believe in a "supreme being"?

 

[JLM]

Everyone has the right to be wrong.

Yeah, I took advantage of it a couple of times, way back in the day!

T-Bones, it is most difficult to convey meaning in bits and pieces. I shall spare you any more bible quotes at this time. My only intent in regards to scripture and its meaning is that it is best comprehended & understood within context of the entire book. In regards to Matthew 25. Certainly the sheep will do good works, but those good works are not what saves them. I did not mean to suggest that Christians are free to never help their neighbor.

Taxslave, Thank You for your forgiving spirit.

Can you tell me why it is a stretch of the imagination for you to believe in a "supreme being"?

What Herculean task have YOU actually seen this Supreme being perform?

 

[L Gilbert]

Sin with a captial S

What's the difference between that and other sins?

- yes we were born sinful by nature. Our natures are not naturally "good". If they were, there would be no evil, no crime, no sin, no hatred etc. That is not to suggest newborn babies are contemplating arson and money laundering.

I disagree. What you said there is not logical. If we were born bad, according to your "logic", there'd be no good, no love, etc. I'm pretty sure that most people are born good and learn to be bad.
Our youngest had a chance to be bad once. She discovered that she didn't like the result. She felt bad about being bad and avoided that feeling from then on. All it takes for people to learn to be bad is to ignore that feeling or in some cases, never to have that feeling.
Everything was designed to be the way it is or else your god isn't as all-seeing and all-powerful as claimed. On the other hand, if everything is going according to its plan, then it would necessarily be indifferent to diseases and disasters and people sinning. Or maybe it simply enjoys the results.
So what are the sins of newborns? My guess is that ignorance of your god is a sin. That's the only thing I can think of that newborns could be guilty of. And if that's true, then your god could hardly be called reasonable. Everyone is ignorant of some things, so we are all sinners. To not be a sinner means we must know everything, including the future. Wouldn't that make us all gods? Seems kind of illogical to me.
But, regardless of the lack of logic in Christian claims, most are a pretty good bunch, I think.

T-Bones, it is most difficult to convey meaning in bits and pieces. I shall spare you any more bible quotes at this time. My only intent in regards to scripture and its meaning is that it is best comprehended & understood within context of the entire book.

So in order to understand the book, we have to know the whole thing. I see. With my memory, or rather the lack of, I'll never understand the book then. I'm ok with that.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Flawed human logic and reason have no place.

Well, that much at least has been obvious from the beginning, though I'd seriously dispute your use of the word 'Flawed' in that sentence. Human logic and reason are what underlies science and technology and they're entirely responsible for the material quality of your life. In the last few centuries they have relieved human suffering on a scope and scale no religion ever achieved, or ever could achieve. Unfortunately they've been unevenly applied around the world so there is still much avoidable human suffering, but we certainly do have the knowledge and the means, and their merit, and justification, is that they demonstrably work. I've just been looking at the mortality figures for 17th century London in a book about probability--part of my omnivorous reading program--and would you like to know what the chances are that you'd have made it into your forties in 17th century London? About 10%. Now they're well over 95%. And what do you suppose makes the difference?


Why did god give us a book that accepts slavery? That prescribes hideous punishments for imaginary crimes? Humanity was around for about 100,000 years before the revelations came down from Mount Sinai. Why didn't he tell us anything useful, like the fact that infectious disease is caused by invisibly small things that can be controlled by certain fairly simple hygiene measures? And why after watching the human tragedy for 100,000 years with complete indifference did Heaven decide to send the message to a backward, illiterate, superstitious tribe of desert nomads, instead of some place like China or India, where there were literate civilizations that knew something about how to think? I find the foundational claims of contemporary religions completely, preposterously, unbelievable.

Tell me one good thing a person of faith can do that an atheist cannot possibly do. Give me one example of a phenomenon for which we once had a scientific explanation, however inadequate, that now has an accepted religious explanation.

 

[cj44]

Well, that much at least has been obvious from the beginning, though I'd seriously dispute your use of the word 'Flawed' in that sentence. Human logic and reason are what underlies science and technology and they're entirely responsible for the material quality of your life. In the last few centuries they have relieved human suffering on a scope and scale no religion ever achieved, or ever could achieve. Unfortunately they've been unevenly applied around the world so there is still much avoidable human suffering, but we certainly do have the knowledge and the means, and their merit, and justification, is that they demonstrably work. I've just been looking at the mortality figures for 17th century London in a book about probability--part of my omnivorous reading program--and would you like to know what the chances are that you'd have made it into your forties in 17th century London? About 10%. Now they're well over 95%. And what do you suppose makes the difference?


Why did god give us a book that accepts slavery? That prescribes hideous punishments for imaginary crimes? Humanity was around for about 100,000 years before the revelations came down from Mount Sinai. Why didn't he tell us anything useful, like the fact that infectious disease is caused by invisibly small things that can be controlled by certain fairly simple hygiene measures? And why after watching the human tragedy for 100,000 years with complete indifference did Heaven decide to send the message to a backward, illiterate, superstitious tribe of desert nomads, instead of some place like China or India, where there were literate civilizations that knew something about how to think? I find the foundational claims of contemporary religions completely, preposterously, unbelievable.

Tell me one good thing a person of faith can do that an atheist cannot possibly do. Give me one example of a phenomenon for which we once had a scientific explanation, however inadequate, that now has an accepted religious explanation.

Flawed human logic & flawed reason have no place in trying to figure out spiritual matters. Dexter, of course Christianity seems unbelievable. Human reason (in trying to figure out God) usually concludes either God is lying, Satan is in control, or that God can't exist. Faith has to rise above what is "seen". Much of what you write here is basically asking the question, "Why does God allow so much suffereing"? I have no answer that will satisfy and close the matter. Only, it ain't over. One day," The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them." One day the carnage will end - enter faith. Everyone wants PROOF of this statement. I have no proof, only the Word of God. Unbelief and human reason (in regards to Christianity) prevent a person from having faith. What you have to do is throw what you "know" and what you think you know out the window. Your mind tells you that the Bible is a fairy tale. It tells you that because science contradicts many of the happenings described in the Bible. Human reason concludes there is no God because your senses do not and cannot detect him. There is no visible proof according to reason.

Christians come along and say, no wait a minute, that Bible is true. There is a God. We can't show you through the senses, but we can witness to knowing him. Knowing him is real & feeling his presence because we have been given eyes to see and hears to hear. Yeah, I know I am sounding crazy about now. Then we tell people that don't believe to "ask and you shall receive". Belief and faith are not things that one can conjure up for oneself.

You asked what one good thing a person of faith can do that an atheist cannot possibly do. I never suggested an atheist could not do good things or even do more good things than a person of faith. God gives all people talents and gifts.

You ask me to give you an example of a phenomenon for which we once had a scientfic explanation that now has an accepted religious explanation. If you try to prove through scientific method that God exists, you will not find any. You have to be willing to suspend human reason in matters of faith. I could argue that all of creation is a fairly good measure to determine there is a God. You will likely fall back to theories in evolution. Neither you or I have any proof of either.

Here's what to do. I should say, if you want to try something, try this. Go to God even if you don't believe he exists and say something along these lines- be honest. "Ok. God. I don't even believe you can hear me because you don't exist. But, if you do can you give me some belief and faith so I can grasp your presence. I can't imagine how any of this stuff in your book the bible is possible or real, but if I am wrong about you I would like to know."

Here's a amusing story to read in the Bible. 1 Kings 18 I think it shows that God has a sense of humor.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Flawed human logic & flawed reason have no place in trying to figure out spiritual matters.

That's the strange part. For many Christians, once the faith premise is in place, they use "flawed human logic" to build arguments. The Jesuits are the masters at this, but most Christians do it.

Faith has to rise above what is "seen".

Precisely. That's why I say "faith" is belief in huge claims without evidence.

Much of what you write here is basically asking the question, "Why does God allow so much suffereing"? I have no answer that will satisfy and close the matter.

Oddly enough, I do.

 

[cj44]

That's the strange part. For many Christians, once the faith premise is in place, they use "flawed human logic" to build arguments. The Jesuits are the masters at this, but most Christians do it.


Precisely. That's why I say "faith" is belief in huge claims without evidence.


Oddly enough, I do.

T-Bones - I see we have reached an agreement of sorts! Yes, I can present you with no evidence that God exists. Yet, I have faith that He most assuredly does. Crazy, I know.

You mean you are able to answer the question "Why does God allow so much suffering?" To clarify, that question I asked is actually flawed, but nevertheless - please do answer the question.

 

[MHz]

If you don't have some passage to use as a reference there is no doctrine to begin with. The Bible covers all important topics in at least 3 different places and if all 3 aren't taken into consideration you will get a less than clear understanding of the topic.

'Faith without proof' is the way people are gathered during the 'time of the Gentiles' why would you try and use that as an argument that the Bible is flawed when that is just the way things are, no 'proof' of anything the Bible mentions as being 'factual'. Having the 'correct doctrine' isn't how you tell who is a Christian anyway as having the 'wrong one' doesn't keep you from being gathered anyway, it does delay it a bit though.

It wouldn't be an imperfect world if there was no suffering and at least God made sure nobody was exempt from tasting it at some point in their life.

 

[DaSleeper]

Atheists in a Christian discussion thread.....

Dogs pulling rope - YouTube