Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

[MHz]

Seriously? You're suggesting death is a human idea?

Certainly not, I'm saying that finding a way around going to the grave has been a common goal of mankind for a very long time.

 

[French Patriot]

I would say insulted and angered rather than offended, I think it's a wicked idea, one of the worst and most damaging ideas humanity has ever produced.

I agree.

Christianity is based on that wicked ideas as well as on wicked human sacrifice and the notion that Christians should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty. The poorly named Jesus sacrifice.

Regards
DL

Which one is the worst? That God doesn't exist?

No. The distorted view of what God is from those who have no way of knowing what God is and more Satanic than God-like in their moral thinking. Like what the Abrahamic cults have become.

Regards
DL

 

[petros]

No. The distorted view of what God is from those who have no way of knowing what God is and more Satanic than God-like in their moral thinking. Like what the Abrahamic cults have become.

Regards
DL

There is a Satan but no God?

 

[darkbeaver]

Satan and god are bosom buddies, but only humans see it that way, if you don't then you ain't.

 

[Cliffy]

Satan and god are bosom buddies, but only humans see it that way, if you don't then you ain't.

God/Satan is the obvious outcome of duality, a state of mind that beleives in separation. There is no separation. We are all part of the source (god, goddess, atman, great spirit). It is the belief in separation that is hell. There is no way to actually be separate from the source: we would not exist. The concept of separation is what spawned religion.

 

[French Patriot]

God/Satan is the obvious outcome of duality, a state of mind that beleives in separation. There is no separation. We are all part of the source (god, goddess, atman, great spirit). It is the belief in separation that is hell. There is no way to actually be separate from the source: we would not exist. The concept of separation is what spawned religion.

Yes. And our tribal nature.


Regards
DL

There is a Satan but no God?

Being Satanic does not mean there is a Satan any more than being Godly means there is a God.


Regards
DL

 

[darkbeaver]

God/Satan is the obvious outcome of duality, a state of mind that beleives in separation. There is no separation. We are all part of the source (god, goddess, atman, great spirit). It is the belief in separation that is hell. There is no way to actually be separate from the source: we would not exist. The concept of separation is what spawned religion.

And yet bifurcation (the cleft of ages) is absolutely necessary for life. In the one is all (true) all makes the one (true). Without separation there would be no possibility of contemplation of the subject. I know that;s not a satisfying answer but where we are on the plane of existence we are of the one but not yet the one having been incarnated into the dualistic underworld (hell) with lifes purpose of rehomogenizing as the one. Whattayouthink about that old argument.

 

[cj44]

Even after Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him. This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:

“Lord, who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”
For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:

“He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their hearts,
so they can neither see with their eyes,
nor understand with their hearts,
nor turn—and I would heal them.”
Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.

I still go with Jesus on this. He is who he said he was. I do enjoy the pictures of the wildebeasts.

And here we see the poverty of modern Christianism where on the one hand we have a professed belief in the after life and on the other the professed unbelief of the same. This stems from their conviction that to be sentient requires flesh and bones and that the mind is also a lump of matter.
That stupid author who wrote Ec 9:10 was obviously of the materialist camp. The body is clay only the animating spark is important only that determines you. Only a lazy dreamer could conceive of a respite from work through the expedient of physical death. I don't go to the grave just the clay and dust and goo of my borrowed body lies in that hole.

oh dear. Should I even bother? Hmmmm.... No.

 

[Cliffy]

Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.

Actually, if you go to the original Aramaic texts, you will find that he said, "I am a son of god" and "we are all children of god." He never claimed to be the only Son of God. That was added in 300 years later. Up until that time he was just considered a great teacher like the Buddha.

 

[Sal]

and in the end it won't matter what we believe only whether or not what we believe makes life meaningful and us whole

 

[cj44]

Actually, if you go to the original Aramaic texts, you will find that he said, "I am a son of god" and "we are all children of god." He never claimed to be the only Son of God. That was added in 300 years later. Up until that time he was just considered a great teacher like the Buddha.

Respectfully disagree.

and in the end it won't matter what we believe only whether or not what we believe makes life meaningful and us whole

Unless our philosophies and/or beliefs are completely wrong. We can believe all we want about anything, but it won't make it true if it is not. I'm not arguing to believe as I. There are millions of different beliefs out there and not a one of us can prove any of those beliefs to be true. Still, the Lord grabbed me and I believe him to be the truth and life as scripture presents.

 

[Sal]

Unless our philosophies and/or beliefs are completely wrong. We can believe all we want about anything, but it won't make it true if it is not. I'm not arguing to believe as I. There are millions of different beliefs out there and not a one of us can prove any of those beliefs to be true. Still, the Lord grabbed me and I believe him to be the truth and life as scripture presents.

in the end cj, how will it matter if we are wrong other than if the individual has lived a life that led to their unhappiness?

 

[Cliffy]

Respectfully disagree.


Unless our philosophies and/or beliefs are completely wrong. We can believe all we want about anything, but it won't make it true if it is not. I'm not arguing to believe as I. There are millions of different beliefs out there and not a one of us can prove any of those beliefs to be true. Still, the Lord grabbed me and I believe him to be the truth and life as scripture presents.

I hope it wasn't by the short and curlies.

The truth is what you believe it is. The mistake many make is to think that the other is wrong and needs to be converted to their way of believing. My beef is not with any particular belief system but with those who think they know better than anybody else.

 

[Sal]

I hope it wasn't by the short and curlies.

The truth is what you believe it is. The mistake many make is to think that the other is wrong and needs to be converted to their way of believing. My beef is not with any particular belief system but with those who think they know better than anybody else.

amen to that ♦

 

[cj44]

in the end cj, how will it matter if we are wrong other than if the individual has lived a life that led to their unhappiness?

Well, I suppose it will matter if a person manages to have happiness on earth only to find the path they led will bring them to eternal ruins. I have no doubt there are many immoral, unethical people that are happy as clams...so to speak. So rather than the goal be indiviual happiness, I think we need to seek the truth. Which may certainly have happiness as an integral part.

I hope it wasn't by the short and curlies.

The truth is what you believe it is. The mistake many make is to think that the other is wrong and needs to be converted to their way of believing. My beef is not with any particular belief system but with those who think they know better than anybody else.

CLiffy, I hope you do not think I aim on converting you. This being a faith/philosophy/religion forum, I speak only from my experience. Would I be happy if you repented of sin, came to understanding that God is a loving God and believe that Christ died for your sins? Sure. Then I could look forward to knowing Cliffy throughout eternity. Perhaps, I should not have mentioned that as I am sure the thought of spending any amount of time with me and throughout eternity no less - would be most unpleasant for you. So, maybe I shouldn't use that as a "selling point". I like to hear what you have to say and I do not assume you are trying to convert me. Though, you might think if I believed as you, things would be better for me. So, I don't mind hearing what others have to say.

 

[Cliffy]

Well, I suppose it will matter if a person manages to have happiness on earth only to find the path they led will bring them to eternal ruins. I have no doubt there are many immoral, unethical people that are happy as clams...so to speak. So rather than the goal be indiviual happiness, I think we need to seek the truth. Which may certainly have happiness as an integral part.


CLiffy, I hope you do not think I aim on converting you. This being a faith/philosophy/religion forum, I speak only from my experience. Would I be happy if you repented of sin, came to understanding that God is a loving God and believe that Christ died for your sins? Sure. Then I could look forward to knowing Cliffy throughout eternity. Perhaps, I should not have mentioned that as I am sure the thought of spending any amount of time with me and throughout eternity no less - would be most unpleasant for you. So, maybe I shouldn't use that as a "selling point". I like to hear what you have to say and I do not assume you are trying to convert me. Though, you might think if I believed as you, things would be better for me. So, I don't mind hearing what others have to say.

Certainly, happiness is an over rated state. Content with your life and your views of reality are far more gratifying. The truth is only relevant to the beholder. Your truth may not be my truth or a Buddhist's truth, but we all came to this understanding through the same process.

We all sought with humility and we all seem to have come to a different place. "Seek and ye shall find". That was the promise. So why do we seem to have come to a different understanding? I contend that itt has to do with what our life experiences have led us to accept. Atheists are no different. Their understanding is what they are willing to accept. Nobody is really wrong. If the Creator is a just and loving creator, then it speaks to each individual in a way they can understand. Nobody has a right to say another is wrong.

 

[French Patriot]

I hope it wasn't by the short and curlies.

The truth is what you believe it is. The mistake many make is to think that the other is wrong and needs to be converted to their way of believing. My beef is not with any particular belief system but with those who think they know better than anybody else.

Agreed. All judgements should be based of the damage that a given belief system brings to those who are not of that persuasion.


The right of religion is usually the less desirable and they make all spiritual people look bad.


Regards
DL

 

[cj44]

Certainly, happiness is an over rated state. Content with your life and your views of reality are far more gratifying. The truth is only relevant to the beholder. Your truth may not be my truth or a Buddhist's truth, but we all came to this understanding through the same process.

We all sought with humility and we all seem to have come to a different place. "Seek and ye shall find". That was the promise. So why do we seem to have come to a different understanding? I contend that itt has to do with what our life experiences have led us to accept. Atheists are no different. Their understanding is what they are willing to accept. Nobody is really wrong. If the Creator is a just and loving creator, then it speaks to each individual in a way they can understand. Nobody has a right to say another is wrong.

For the record, I did not seek with humility. My disposition is quite like a wild boar. I am stubborn and bull like. Certainly, seeking with humility is preferred. For me it was not the case.

 

[MHz]

"Seek and ye shall find". That was the promise.

For those that do it wrong that can expect a visit from Him, not quite the same but it still ends up with the tears being wiped away.

De:4:29-30:
But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God,
thou shalt find him,
if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
When thou art in tribulation,
and all these things are come upon thee,
even in the latter days,
if thou turn to the LORD thy God,
and shalt be obedient unto his voice;

 

[Cliffy]

For those that do it wrong that can expect a visit from Him, not quite the same but it still ends up with the tears being wiped away.

De:4:29-30:
But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God,
thou shalt find him,
if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
When thou art in tribulation,
and all these things are come upon thee,
even in the latter days,
if thou turn to the LORD thy God,
and shalt be obedient unto his voice;

But what if my god is different from your god?