I always thought they shouldn't, until I started seeing the incarceration rates of some countries, and realized that perhaps they ought to be heard too, because some countries have such a ridiculously high population sitting in prison that it seems to me that it starts to be a way of quieting the poor population. In most countries the population in prison is so small as to be inconsequential, but if you start to have a population that can actually effect change from within prison, then something is broken, and they should be given a voice.
Who should be allowed to vote?
- Thread starter ansutherland
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I always thought they shouldn't, until I started seeing the incarceration rates of some countries, and realized that perhaps they ought to be heard too, because some countries have such a ridiculously high population sitting in prison that it seems to me that it starts to be a way of quieting the poor population. In most countries the population in prison is so small as to be inconsequential, but if you start to have a population that can actually effect change from within prison, then something is broken, and they should be given a voice.
Well, I work in a prison and I for one do not like that the inmates can vote. That though is somewhat of a separte issue, but I thought for what it's worth I would add to the prison discussion.
Is it though?
The point is the same... that a society is responsible for its entirety. If it fails to educate its populace, it will have to hear their voices, rather than pretend they aren't there. If it fails to raise upstanding citizens, it will have to hear their voices as well. Either way, it's an issue of wanting to quiet the 'undesirables' and eliminate them from the pool of voters. Logic and a sense of human rights tells me that the right way to go is to bring up a society that has such a small pool of the people you view as 'undesirable' (stupid, criminals, etc.), that their sway on the political system is minimal. If they hit such a sizeable population that you need to try to shut them out of the system, then the issue is one that needs addressing beyond attempting to pretend in the polls that they are not truly a part of your society.
yes, your idea, 'if put into action', would be the beginning of undoing everything that has
been done over the generations.
There was a time when first nations could not vote, women could not vote, people who didn't own property
couldn't vote in certain elections, that is gone now, and we don't want to start turning back the
clock and leaving out people 'who' some feel don't belong in the electorate.
The idea is arrogant, and no one has the right to decide how stupid, smart, educated or not, deserving or not.
Only each person who owns the vote can decide what he/she wants with that right, and if they decide 'not' to
vote, it is their business and no one elses, as that is also a 'free' choice.
Those running for office, and the government in power need to work harder to make
the public respect them more, trust them more, like what they represent more, then
perhaps 'more' voters will show up at the polls.
been done over the generations.
There was a time when first nations could not vote, women could not vote, people who didn't own property
couldn't vote in certain elections, that is gone now, and we don't want to start turning back the
clock and leaving out people 'who' some feel don't belong in the electorate.
The idea is arrogant, and no one has the right to decide how stupid, smart, educated or not, deserving or not.
Only each person who owns the vote can decide what he/she wants with that right, and if they decide 'not' to
vote, it is their business and no one elses, as that is also a 'free' choice.
Those running for office, and the government in power need to work harder to make
the public respect them more, trust them more, like what they represent more, then
perhaps 'more' voters will show up at the polls.
A couple things here.
We're talking Canada, not another country. Our prison population may be higher than we'd like to see, especially in some demographics, but its not that high compared to our peers.
The major issue, in my mind, is why are the inmates in prison? When you break it down, it is because they defaulted on the social contract that all members of a society have to uphold for that society to function. It is because they infringed upon the rights of others with little or no regard for those they committed their crimes against. Some may have expressed remorse after the fact but that doesn't change they fact they made some tremendous errors in judgement.
I'm a hardass, I'll admit it. I don't believe someone who is under punishment for denying or infringing upon the rights of others should have the right to decide how our society is run: they have already proven they don't deserve that responsibility. Once their FULL sentence is served (time, fines, parole and probation) then they can have their vote back.
I think we should also keep in mind that a large proportion of people in prison are there because of their inability to pay a fine and their inability to afford a decent (actually probably very indecent) lawyer. :smile::smile:
Our Tax Payer funded Education system is supposed to cover all this I "Believe" but sometimes wonder about. If Education is manditory until 16 years of age we have a right to expect they have been taught these things, and therefore should be able to vote using that knowledge.
Exactly why the Nunavit Assembley solution would give us the best Government. Does away with the "Party" and makes every elected member's POV equally important, and every members vote the vote of the people they represent.
You're compartmentalizing people again, Y.J. Not everyone is interested. :smile:
I understand the feeling that citizens should be made to vote but I don't think it will do much good. It will not make anyone more aware of how our political class is screwing us or make them more aware of economic policies. All it will do is to make them blindly put an X beside a name on a ballot.
You got that right taxslave, if we are going to have a freedom let's make it a total freedom for everyone.
I tend to agree. They abused their rights to begin with so they really don't deserve rights (other than the one that supports life).
Irrelevant.
I'm kind of of the opinion they surrender their rights when that door slams behind them. Pensions are denied incarcerated people. Why not the right to vote?
Ah yes, another person wanting to somehow "improve the vote".
It won't work. Sadly, the rules have devolved to the point that anyone alive, and above the set age has the absolute right to vote in any election.
Personally, I prefer the system in place in the British Colonies before the American Revolution. Only landowners, and/or those with a set amount of assets were allowed to vote.
If that were the case, you would not see so many "bread and circuses' that the people just love to vote in for themselves.
It won't work. Sadly, the rules have devolved to the point that anyone alive, and above the set age has the absolute right to vote in any election.
Personally, I prefer the system in place in the British Colonies before the American Revolution. Only landowners, and/or those with a set amount of assets were allowed to vote.
If that were the case, you would not see so many "bread and circuses' that the people just love to vote in for themselves.
Yeah. NWT and Nunavut have the closest thing to real democracy there is in Canada.
A fan of outright plutocracy. I guess no-one's ever pointed out to you that intelligence and wealth are not parallel. If they were Einstein and various other bright people would have been much richer than the Bushes, Warren Buffet, Conrad Black, Bill Gates, etc. Did you know that Triple 9, Mensa, and a few other clubs of the very intelligent have members that are among the poor and various clubs of the rich have some of the stupidest people on the planet as members?
Though it is the case that not all smart people are well off and not all dumb people are poor, on average, the smarter you are the better you do. Income is directly correlated with education levels and education levels in the west to correlate with intelligence.
I'd like to see stats on it and how much co-relation there is. I bet the co-relation isn't that great.
Education levels are not necessarily a good measure of intelligence either. I have seen many stupid but successful lawyers, engineers, etc. and quite a few poorer people with modest jobs that are quite intelligent. SJP tried this one time and basically suggested that women that are homemakers aren't very intelligent. It's complete nonsense, but that's SJP. As it turns out, he himself is a stay-at-home hubby. lmao
Are we refering to income or the accumulation of wealth. If it's the former, then the correlation is quite strong, for the latter, the correlation is much weaker. Smarter people earn more....simple as that. That is not to say though that they are good at saving it.
A Wealth of Smarts Does Not Guarantee Actual Wealth: Scientific American
*shrugs*
At any rate, not all intelligent people vote with smarts or don't have a party preference, either. I think it is best just to leave the voting alone and let those of majority age vote if they choose.