Who should be allowed to vote?

[JLM]

I believe voting should be mandatory and everyone should have the day off to vote ...

.

I disagree strongly on both counts. I never could understand why the employer had to foot the bill for 4 hours off to vote for three good reasons
1. Voting takes 10 minutes
2. Most people work 7-8 hour shifts, polling stations are open for 12 (If a person happens to work a 12 hour shift that coincides with polling hours, the employer should be obligated to give him/her 1/2 hour off to get their ass down there)
3. The cost of this is just another bullsh*t cost added to the price of the product which is loaded back on to the consumer.

 

[talloola]

I have heard one thing that I can agree with as a possible solution.....if the politician lies, make them appologize and correct the mistake! Other than that, all I hear is "voting is our right" sort of arguments without so much as a single justification for why it should be.

because the vote 'belongs' to the citizen, and should not be 'contaminated' by anyone else.

everyone elses input as to why that vote should be tampered with by someone else, is so questionable to me,
and just an excuse for 'others' to twist things their own way, no one else should touch anyone elses vote,
and no one can judge whether one is eligible to vote or not, unless it involves illegalities, and the law
should never be changed to allow anyone to put their hands on another's vote or voting rights, that is the
beginning of ending our democracy.
Sure, democracy is not perfect, and nothing else is either.

 

[JLM]

"=ansutherland;1295339]I have heard one thing that I can agree with as a possible solution.....if the politician lies, make them appologize and correct the mistake! Other than that, all I hear is "voting is our right" sort of arguments without so much as a single justification for why it should be."

There's one way to stop these bastard's lying. You pay them half of their monthly salary and the other half is held in trust until they retire/ resign/get recalled/ imprisoned etc. For every lie they tell 10% of the total amount is forfeited back to the taxpayer. One downside- Campbell would have to declare bankruptcy.

 

[karrie]

ansutherland, you have yet to show any kind of proof that your assertion holds any truth... does upping the arbitrary IQ of voters make it less likely that they will accept a campaign lie from a politician? Nothing I've seen suggests it would... as such lies aren't clear until after the fact.

 

[GreenFish66]

I am definetly not defending "Lying" politicians but I was once told.something along the lines like...There is no such thing as a lie in politics because politicians try to predict the future and work to change their ideas into reality...They can only do what doesn't conflict with everyone else's agenda...Once elected into government/Big Biz "The Truth " changes drastically ..In Global to Local politics.. What is the truth ?...When everything in politics..is fabricated B.S. Games......Good politicians last the test of time ...Others fall into their own creation..

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/news/87400-where-words-numbers-lie.html - Where Words and Numbers lie

 

[JLM]

I am definetly not defending "Lying" politicians but I was once told.something along the lines like...There is no such thing as a lie in politics because politicians try to predict the future and can only do what doesn't conflict with everyone else's agenda...Once elected into government/Big Biz "The Truth " changes drastically ..In Global to Local politics.. What is the truth ?...When everything in politics..is fabricated B.S. Games......Good politicians last the test of time ...Others fall into their own creation..

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/news/87400-where-words-numbers-lie.html

Then they should voice their philosophy and not promise anything. :smile:

 

[GreenFish66]

Then they should voice their philosophy and not promise anything. :smile:

Well Said...Good leadership gets things done...

 

[shadowshiv]

I think that the majority of people in prison should not be allowed to vote.

 

[ansutherland]

ansutherland, you have yet to show any kind of proof that your assertion holds any truth... does upping the arbitrary IQ of voters make it less likely that they will accept a campaign lie from a politician? Nothing I've seen suggests it would... as such lies aren't clear until after the fact.

Do you really mean to tell me that irrespective of IQ, we are all equally susceptible to the same lies or inaccuracies? Do you really think this? I suppose, off the top of my head I could provide something correlative to illustrate my beliefs. For example, deeply religious belief and educational levels are inversely proportional. Thus, if we were to extrapolate from this, if more deeply religious people vote for one party over another, a higher concentration of the uneducated will be on one side. IQ also correlates with the level of education you have achieved. If this were not the case then, on average, a doctor or rocket scientist would on average be no smarter than a retail worker. I know this is not a very PC notion for many, but it is reality. Unfortunately one's susceptibility to believe in silly and nonsensical things has heavy social implications.

This is going a little off topic though as I have never said you have to be a genius to vote. Just a little knowledge to show that you take the responsibility seriously would be nice. We require the same of new citizens for them to enjoy our freedoms yet require other than attaining a certain age for our own.

If you really do believe that a person with no knowledge of our system and not a care in the world can cancel out the vote of someone thoughtful and responsible then we definitely do disagree.

 

[TenPenny]

If you really do believe that a person with no knowledge of our system and not a care in the world can cancel out the vote of someone thoughtful and responsible then we definitely do disagree.

There is no such thing as 'cancelling out a vote'. Every vote cast is a vote cast. Every person who is a citizen and over 18 is eligible to vote. The only thing I would add is 'not currently serving time in a federal penitentiary'.

 

[JLM]

There is no such thing as 'cancelling out a vote'. Every vote cast is a vote cast. Every person who is a citizen and over 18 is eligible to vote. The only thing I would add is 'not currently serving time in a federal penitentiary'.

I'm wondering if it would be that big of a deal if prisoners did vote, their votes would probably play out pretty close to the same proportion as the rest of the population. :smile:

 

[ansutherland]

There is no such thing as 'cancelling out a vote'. Every vote cast is a vote cast. Every person who is a citizen and over 18 is eligible to vote. The only thing I would add is 'not currently serving time in a federal penitentiary'.

There absolutely is such a thing as cancelling out a vote. If a small group of 5 were to vote on something and the vote was 3-2 then the 2 no cancel out the 2 yes leaving us with a difference of 1. If you and I were part of that 5 and I voted yes and you voted no, it is now a vote between 3. You and I could have never existed and the end result would have been the same. Your vote has cancelled out my vote just as much as my vote has cancelled yours. The only way to remedy the problem of everyone's vote counting for something is to abolish the FPTP system.

 

[lone wolf]

You are assuming there are only two parties running. How does one vote cancel another if all five votes are cast for five different candidates?

 

[karrie]

If you really do believe that a person with no knowledge of our system and not a care in the world can cancel out the vote of someone thoughtful and responsible then we definitely do disagree.

What I believe is that the entirety of an adult population deserve to express what they want for government, even those who lack in education. The more limiting factors we place on it, the more of society we strip a political voice from. I think even a moron gets to have an opinion, whether I like their opinion or not. I will defend their right to have an opinion because the moment I allow that someone who is less educated than me should be denied a vote, I open the door for someone to strip me of my right to vote eventually as well.

 

[ansutherland]

You are assuming there are only two parties running. How does one vote cancel another if all five votes are cast for five different candidates?

All 5 are cancelled out as we have no winner. If 5 parties run and there are only 5 voters and all 5 voters vote for different parties then no one has won. If the parties were:
A 1 vote
B 1 vote
C 1 vote
D 1 vote
E 1 vote

The parties are really no further ahead in establishing a viable government than they were before the election; unless you would like to see a coalition of all 5 separate parties. In the second scenario we have 1 winner:
A 1 vote
B 1 vote
C 1 vote
D 2 votes
E 0 votes

D wins by 1. A cancels B and C cancels 1 of D's. With FPTP this is what will always happen.

 

[karrie]

yeah, still what I hear from you is that you think you are worth more than some people, and would like to block those people you deem as beneath you, from voting.

 

[lone wolf]

Now ... what happens when we have, oh say, 15 million people voting?

 

[ansutherland]

yeah, still what I hear from you is that you think you are worth more than some people, and would like to block those people you deem as beneath you, from voting.

Nope. I do not think I am above eveyone else. I may not be qualified to vote either. In fact, last election I did not vote for anyone as I did not feel as though I knew enough about either party to cast a ballot. I did however vote for the STV.

Now ... what happens when we have, oh say, 15 million people voting?

Extrapole from what will happen with a much smaller sample.

 

[lone wolf]

Extrapole from what will happen with a much smaller sample.

Why would I do that? How many eligible voters are there in Canada? What is the average number of candidates fielded? (both are rhetorical questions) Perhaps many people aren't educated to the level required by your limitations, yet we assume at the age of majority most have attained some wisdom.

 

[VanIsle]

There is no such thing as 'cancelling out a vote'. Every vote cast is a vote cast. Every person who is a citizen and over 18 is eligible to vote. The only thing I would add is 'not currently serving time in a federal penitentiary'.

Inmates are given the right to vote.