Whats your take on Unions?

[Nuggler]

Unions for the common folk are A joke...Organization Unions are currupt and wired into the gov ...So also B.S..

You are just full of shyte.

 

[GreenFish66]

Unions do nothing ...If you want something done right ...Do it yourself on behalf of others...That way the whole place is full of shyte and change will occur for the better...

Cut straight through the Beaucratic red tape and get to the point ...

My shytes recyclable and easy to manage...

Everythings Energy and information ..The rest is recyclable waste ..Some leave more than others..

Green/clean tech

So Nuggler ..your saying then that you prefer unions?

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

GreenFish66, I seriously don't think we can do without unions. The greed that manifests itself on all sides (employers, employees, shareholders) is just too much of a factor. In the end, it is the employees that suffer because they are not the ones making the decisions nor are they in the loop when decisions are made.... and as corrupt as the union has become, we still need them.

 

[JLM]

GreenFish66, I seriously don't think we can do without unions. The greed that manifests itself on all sides (employers, employees, shareholders) is just too much of a factor. In the end, it is the employees that suffer because they are not the ones making the decisions nor are they in the loop when decisions are made.... and as corrupt as the union has become, we still need them.

If you are making money for your employer and he doesn't respond with an acceptable salary, you can be quite sure one of the competitors will be quite happy to snap you up. When you are producing a widget, the less people involved in producing that widget mean a bigger profit share for those who are involved. Does it make sense for a portion of the profit to go to people who aren't building widgets?

 

[JLM]

Unions have helped bring about a lot of good things:

-Shorter work weeks
-Better pay
-Better benefits
-Safer working conditions

To name a few.

I guess we can go back to the days of the company store(like the Wall Mart model), but I think in the end you end up with a much more impoverished society. Spreading the wealth around makes sense because if more people have greater buying power the more robust a market place is. Unions help do that.

All the above can be achieved without a Union. If you make yourself so efficient so you can fill the widget market demand by 2 PM, do you think the boss is going to want you to stick around longer?

 

[darkbeaver]

Yup. I see unions a bit like insurance companies. It's what I meant by "businesses". You fork over all those premiums (dues) and if nothing ever happens, what have you gotten in return? Nothing. And you've probably gone on strike a few times, so you're out that much more. Dumb. lol

It's a fact, strikes pay, both in the short run and the long. Why do you think strikes are feared by the boss. It's not because they don't work AnnaG.

 

[darkbeaver]

All the above can be achieved without a Union. If you make yourself so efficient so you can fill the widget market demand by 2 PM, do you think the boss is going to want you to stick around longer?

You don't have one labour related right that was not the result of a union, and a hundred year battle. You don't work for the boss you work for you at the bosses place.

 

[GreenFish66]

JLM -- Right ..If you prove your worth ..you will always have a job..That's why I like non union ...Always a chance to advance ..Never have to wait in line behind people who are lazy ,just don't care or are going to be there for ever .. and are happy to tell you all about it and why you have no future there...

Incentives/ inclusion /rewards/acknowledgement with room for immediate advancement (with respect/acceptance/fairness/teamwork with other co workers /together.).

A Challenge .. A chance to prove your worth for the betterment of all involved .. in a healthy / sustainable balance


Strikes used to work( 1970's- 1989) Anna G ,until "THEY" brought in ..Back to work legislation ..

 

[darkbeaver]

Widgit factory owners are outnumbered by widgit makers 50,000 to one. Which team do you belong to?

 

[GreenFish66]

Widgit factory owners are outnumbered by widgit makers 50,000 to one. Which team do you belong to?

It's all the same team Dark Beaver...Depending on where you work ..As long as you don;t get caught up in too much of the partisan biz politics...There's the system face ..Then the person ...The person can be reasoned with ( yet there are always pricks ..Mostly greedy money lovers tied too much to their investment .Not enough to family and genuine friends.)..The system is more stubborn ..Set in iITt.'s way ..however does accept change if convinced it will work and is better than the established way ...If it's a good flexible ,adaptable system ..If not ..Get a new job ...It won't last long...

Here's something I told my kid...A little off subject but close enough

C^5

Be Calm ,Cool , collected ... Confident yet willing to change/accept change (Adaptable)

Helps ensure balance and sustainability ..

 

[darkbeaver]

JLM -- Right ..If you prove your worth ..you will always have a job..That's why I like non union ...Always a chance to advance ..Never have to wait in line behind people who are lazy ,just don't care or are going to be there for ever .. and are happy to tell you all about it and why you have no future there...

Incentives/ inclusion /rewards/acknowledement with room for immediate advancement (with respect/acceptance/fairness/teamwork with other co workers /together.).

A Challenge .. A chance to prove your worth for the betterment of all involved .. in a healthy / sustainable balance

You've gotten the kiss and promise treatment GF. If you prove your worth and then still don't demand a fair days pay for that worth you are failing your children and your wife and your community and if you work under those discounted prices and make it known to the boss he certainly knows exactly the kind of employee he has and values him accordingly. I know a dozen guys who repeated word for word your mantra and found out different. You are only as big as your last hit GF. And they'll turn on you as soon as you limp a bit.

 

[darkbeaver]

Unions do nothing ...If you want something done right ...Do it yourself on behalf of others...That way the whole place is full of shyte and change will occur for the better...

Cut straight through the Beaucratic red tape and get to the point ...

My shytes recyclable and easy to manage...

Everythings Energy and information ..The rest is recyclable waste ..Some leave more than others..

Green/clean tech

So Nuggler ..your saying then that you prefer unions?

You tell your doctor that his union is worthless and he'll laugh you out of the office. Tell Syd Crosby he dosn't need and has no right to a business agent.:lol:

 

[GreenFish66]

lol ... ..I can accept that DB..Although I suppose we live in different words/worlds...1 word respect....Another lyric from one of my 1996 ,28 out of 30 hit song ...

UseLess - " Respect me for respecting you .." ...

Survival of the fittest or saftey in numbers ...Humans have evolved to be civilized .The rest are animals ..Some still should be respected, for they know no better ..Others deserve what they become /get...Beasts/Scary Monsters ..lol

 

[TenPenny]

Without a foundation of unions, what will happen is that wages, benefits, etc, will migrate downwards. Like WalMart, where prices are squeezed constantly, so that year after year, Walmart suppliers are expected to lower their prices.

The same pressures apply to the labour market, and without workers banding together, that's what will happen. Make no mistake about it.

I'm not a union guy, never been a union member, but I know how industry works, because I've been involved in industry for 20 some years. And I know what will happen without a reasonable base of industrial unions.

All of the above is not to suggest that unions don't go overboard at times. We've all seen abuses. But I've also seen workplaces where every woman who ever went on maternity leave was magically laid off about 6 months after returning to work.

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

If you are making money for your employer and he doesn't respond with an acceptable salary, you can be quite sure one of the competitors will be quite happy to snap you up. When you are producing a widget, the less people involved in producing that widget mean a bigger profit share for those who are involved. Does it make sense for a portion of the profit to go to people who aren't building widgets?

Good point. My response is that you are assuming the competitor has positions open for you to snap up... with unemployment in the US 17% (?) that is a dangerous assumption to make.. especially when a job is unskilled.

The second assumption you are making is the concept of "profit share". While employees get paid, the profit sharing is not equal... there needs to be somebody or something that will ensure that the workers are treated and paid fairly and disputes are handled properly. That is the unions job... So the answer to your question is yes because indirectly, these people are actually doing something... they are making the environment for the worker a better one. But recently, it has been more of their job to keep the union membership high by pitting the employee against the employer.

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

All the above can be achieved without a Union. If you make yourself so efficient so you can fill the widget market demand by 2 PM, do you think the boss is going to want you to stick around longer?

Are you kidding me? Without a union, the boss will be happy that you filled the demand by 2PM, now he will demand YOU to keep filling the demand until 10PM with no breaks in between.

Are you still feeling efficient?

 

[darkbeaver]

It's all the same team Dark Beaver...Depending on where you work ..As long as you don;t get caught up in too much of the partisan biz politics...There's the system face ..Then the person ...The person can be reasoned with ( yet there are always pricks ..Mostly greedy money lovers tied too much to their investment .Not enough to family and genuine friends.)..The system is more stubborn ..Set in iITt.'s way ..however does accept change if convinced it will work and is better than the established way ...If it's a good flexible ,adaptable system ..If not ..Get a new job ...It won't last long...

Here's something I told my kid...A little off subject but close enough

C^5

Be Calm ,Cool , collected ... Confident yet willing to change/accept change (Adaptable)

Helps ensure balance and sustainability ..

Sure you can reason with the suit and he can make you feel better in fifteen minutes or less, he'll empathize he'll touch your arm tell you a joke discuss your problems or ideas with rapt attention, you can see the concern and interest wrinkles by his eyes and then he'll tell you about the system and how company policy rules all forseen circumstances even yours and it is completely out of his hands, he has no latitude but he will bring it up in the office on the fifth floor at next months general meeting of department heads. And you'll wait quietly because you're a team player.
Head office ain't interested in balance or sustainability, it's profit and more profit and as soon as the well is dry they up and drill another in the next valley where they tell the employees the same old stories, and they always work. But hey, you could be the exception to the observed and recorded facts.IMHO

 

[countryboy]

Are you kidding me? Without a union, the boss will be happy that you filled the demand by 2PM, now he will demand YOU to keep filling the demand until 10PM with no breaks in between.

Are you still feeling efficient?

I'd suggest seeking out a new place to work, if you're speaking from experience.

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

Without a foundation of unions, what will happen is that wages, benefits, etc, will migrate downwards. Like WalMart, where prices are squeezed constantly, so that year after year, Walmart suppliers are expected to lower their prices.

The same pressures apply to the labour market, and without workers banding together, that's what will happen. Make no mistake about it.

I'm not a union guy, never been a union member, but I know how industry works, because I've been involved in industry for 20 some years. And I know what will happen without a reasonable base of industrial unions.

All of the above is not to suggest that unions don't go overboard at times. We've all seen abuses. But I've also seen workplaces where every woman who ever went on maternity leave was magically laid off about 6 months after returning to work.

Well said... even though I'm still mad at the Lordco comment you made ages ago. heh heh.

 

[Risus]

I'm late getting in on this topic, but in my view the usefullness of unions is long past. The union bosses are getting rich, they have no respect for their workers and often do nothing for the workers. They push for strikes, lengthy at times, getting their full salaries, while the workers suffer and receive next to nothing in strike pay. I have seen a couple of companies I was involved with close up because of unions.

We have labour laws now, don't run sweat shops, so why a union? Unions only protect useless workers.