What would YOU want to hear at church?

[Dexter Sinister]

You talk as if "reason" is the only human faculty. You don't possess intuition? You don't possess trust? You navigate your entire life via reason?

I try to, with varying degrees of success. I do have intuition and trust, and assorted other faculties, but I've learned from experience not to trust intuition until I've reasoned through what it seems to be telling me. I'm interested in knowing what's actually true, not what I'd like to be true, and I know far too much about the myriad ways human cognition and perception can be led astray to trust untested claims. I'd rather not know than believe something that's not true. I won't accept something as true just because it might be comforting or it explains a whole lot of otherwise inexplicable things, it has to pass the tests of critical thinking. There are six of them, which I got from an excellent thinker named James Lett, I routinely apply to any claim.
1. Any true claim must in principle be falsifiable, it must be possible to at least imagine evidence that would prove it to be wrong. Otherwise the evidence in its favour doesn't matter either, it's invulnerable to any kind of evidence.
2. The argument in support of the claim must be logical and consistent.
3. The evidence offered must be comprehensive, you have to consider all the evidence, not just that which supports the claim.
4. Any test or experiment must be replicated by others, with consistent results.
5. The evidence and reasoning offered must be sufficient to establish the truth of the claim.
6. You must assess the evidence and arguments honestly, without bias or preconceptions.

Any claim that fails any of those tests deserves to be rejected. Passing them all doesn't necessarily mean something must be true in any absolute sense, but it does mean you're justified in placing considerable confidence in it; you've sold your belief for a fair price, it hasn't been stolen from you by frauds and charlatans. Paranormal and supernatural claims, in which I include religious claims, fail them all. They are emotive claims that can provide insight into someone's personality and values and history, but they are, in the fine phrase of a former teacher of mine, propositionally vacuous.

 

[Cliffy]

A long time ago an asteroid collided with Earth and there was a mass die off of 90%+ of all living things. Then life returned. A similar mass die off occurred before and since that particular event, but again life returned. Why and how? The only conclusion I can come to is that the biosphere of this planet is the source of LIFE. It is one huge living organism that sustains and nurtures all life on Earth. After each such cataclysmic event, the species that replace the former are changed to suit the environmental changes that have occurred.

Is there a god involved in this process? I doubt it. The aboriginal peoples refer to Earth as Mother Earth. Do you think they figured out what happens here without the need of magical beings? They called the sun Father Sun because without the sun feeding energy to the biosphere, there would be no life here. They also call the moon Grandmother Moon because of its influences on life here. Could life on this planet be that simple or do we really need to complicate stuff just for the hell of it?

 

[lone wolf]

Someone always wants to capitalize on a good thing.... ;-)

 

[JLM]

And this is how you got to the idiotic conclusion in the face of all reason and evidence that the planet is only 6000 years old?

"A day is to a thousand years as a thousand years is to a day"- I don't personally believe the planet being 6000 years old is any more remarkable than Methuselah living to 969 years! It's all relative. :lol: (Or maybe bullsh*t)

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Is there a god involved in this process? I doubt it.

I doubt it too, for what are probably essentially similar reasons to yours. We know of at least five major mass extinction events from the geological record, which suggests to me that if there IS a deity involved, he got it wrong five times and had to start over. And we appear to be causing a sixth one; gotta wonder what that's about in the deity's scheme of things.

"A day is to a thousand years as a thousand years is to a day"-

Not to Young Earth Creationists, they mean 6000 years of the ordinary sort we're all familiar with.

I don't personally believe the planet being 6000 years old is any more remarkable than Methuselah living to 969 years! It's all relative. :lol: (Or maybe bullsh*t)

So Methuselah was alive for over 16% of earth's history? I'd go with the bullsh*t option. :lol:

 

[JLM]

Not to Young Earth Creationists, they mean 6000 years of the ordinary sort we're all familiar with. So Methuselah was alive for over 16% of earth's history? I'd go with the bullsh*t option. :lol:

Funny you mention that - I was just thinking the same thing. Very worldly person, that Methuselah! :lol:

 

[MHz]

I suppose you think General Electric builds butterflies.

Really small ones with a camera and a microphone. Careful what you ask for.

Funny you mention that - I was just thinking the same thing. Very worldly person, that Methuselah! :lol:

You are referencing six 24 hour days for the creation days right? Starting in about 4005BC.

If all flesh is to be alive in the new earth that has lived in this one then an earth that was 144 hours in the making would not have any increases in numbers (births) until 4005BC and then all life would be counted for resurrection in the new earth if the two verses below reference a remberance that means they will live again after this world ends and that the 'hasten' means a flurry at the beginning of the new earth.

Ho:2:18:
And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field,
and with the fowls of heaven,
and with the creeping things of the ground:
and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth,
and will make them to lie down safely.

Isa:60:22:
A little one shall become a thousand,
and a small one a strong nation:
I the LORD will hasten it in his time.

Even the 'old earth creation' theme only goes back to the beginning of day 6, using the conditions in Ge:2 as the starting point for the condition of the new earth then behind Adam would be all the people born up to the day of return. A new earth would have to start with water in two forms and then trees and rivers etc. When we run out of room on this world then immortality would allow us to go to other worlds and 'build pastures' that would eventually support the birth of 'flesh' including men who have 'mortal' children who need food until they are 120 years old and then they are given immortality (able to travel to other worlds with the 'leaving/arriving gate being the open roof of New Jerusalem and Angels could be the 'ship') That part of eternity grows forever.

Locking the Bible's reference to 'a day' to mean 24 hours is being somewhat childish (even for you two) if you consider all references as meaning that.

Re:18:8:
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death,
and mourning,
and famine;
and she shall be utterly burned with fire:
for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Zec:14:7:
But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD,
not day,
nor night:
but it shall come to pass,
that at evening time it shall be light.

Oh wait, that is just what it means, do you agree?

 

[Cliffy]

Oh wait, that is just what it means, do you agree?

No, because none us questioning the 6 day creation myth believe the bible has any validity whatsoever. Your insistence on using to prove anything to nonbelievers borders on the psychotic. In fact, your preoccupation with the bible borders on psychosis.

 

[MHz]

Very worldly person, that Methuselah! :lol:

1,000 years in a small town just means more time around the same old block and more references to 'where Uncle Charlie's barn used to be' and after a while you don't need to use your signal lights cause everybody knows where you're going. No old roads is proof that they used anti-gravity devices is it not or do you think they would build pyramids with millions of stone blocks but 'they' has to walk everywhere they went? What steam-roller went over you that you lost your 3rd dimension?

Having Ezekiel's wheel(s) would have meant surfing halfway around the globe and be back for lunch. Enoch had the only 'off-world model'.

No, because none us questioning the 6 day creation myth believe the bible has any validity whatsoever. Your insistence on using to prove anything to nonbelievers borders on the psychotic. In fact, your preoccupation with the bible borders on psychosis.

Just imagine if there is ever a listing on the job-bank, I should get it as there your reference. I wonder which of us has the most post in the religious section? I wonder which of us has the most posts in the religious section that is somewhat different from all other post we make in said threads? If sanctimonious made bull**** valuable you would already be a very rich man.

The reasons I give are for what I am a believer, is is not your reason to change your view. That is God's task, seeing 'you as is' and Dex (as is) just assures me the division time isn't very close.

 

[lone wolf]

. .

. .
. .
. .
for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
. .
Zec:14:7:
But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD,
not day,
nor night:
but it shall come to pass,
that at evening time it shall be light.
. .
Oh wait, that is just what it means, do you agree?

There's them cobwebs again....

 

[JLM]

I don't believe in any god at all, and I am comfortable and happy and content in my life, and have
no fear of being left out of anything, but very happy to be a child of this earth, of which
I have so much respect.

Nothing in my life has ever led me to believe there is a god, even though I had many years
of catholic teachings as a child, and went to catholic school, and actually, learning so
much about my religion and god, taught me that there is 'none'.

I think there is definitely a "God" Talloola, just not quite what the Bible thumpers would have us believe. Otherwise man would arguatively be the smartest thing on the planet, yet the planet survives a lot better when "man" keeps his nose out of things. There is many phenomena that man has not been able to figure out................at least modern man. How is it that there are many artifacts in the world that have somehow been created, when there were no tools (that we are aware of) necessary for their creation. It can be called "God" if you choose or a "higher power". What really pisses me off are these holier than thou types who think they are speaking for God and condemning us to Hell because we don't adhere to their standards (which when everyone's back is turned) they quit following.

 

[MHz]

There's them cobwebs again....

On a busy street?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I How is it that there are many artifacts in the world that have somehow been created, when there were no tools (that we are aware of) necessary for their creation.

What artifacts are those?

 

[lone wolf]

On a busy street?

...as he blots out the skyline, makes fast his escape leaving more whats-its all over the place....

 

[JLM]

What artifacts are those?

Stonehenge, The Great Pyramid and many in Malta. Not mention all the accomplishments of the Incas and Aztecs. Just recently there was a documentary on Malta, absolutely unbelievable, the stuff they built with tools like stone knives etc. yet equal to anything that could be done with a modern lathe.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

And you're suggesting what, that these are the leavings of some higher power, not human-made artifacts?

 

[MHz]

...as he blots out the skyline, makes fast his escape leaving more whats-its all over the place....

Putting my brain up a gnat's ass only proves a 'bb' will fit into a box-car, at least i am safe from your will-nots.

 

[adopted]

adopted, what "evidence" do you have from now. Something you can show from the present. Quoting a 2000 year old book is not presenting any kind of "evidence".

Something from the present? I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see. There's no miracle quite like a man like me being freed from the slavery of my sin.

 

[lone wolf]

Putting my brain up a gnat's ass only proves a 'bb' will fit into a box-car, at least i am safe from your will-nots.

Sez lots for the size of the brain too....

...and you stay T/F away from my arse.

 

[adopted]

Intuition and trust are just like icing on the cake, but without reason you have no "cake".

And with reason only, you're pretty dry.