What would YOU want to hear at church?

In Between Man

The Biblical Position
Sep 11, 2008
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Baha'i is an offshoot of Islam like Christianity is an offshoot of the Jewish religion. The difference between Baha'i and Christianity is that they are accepting of all people, faith or no faith, most churches will only tolerate you if you convert. If it becomes apparent that you have no intention to convert, you become just another black sheep. Some will shun you. They are only friendly if they think they can make you theirs. The Baha'i do not evangelize, try to convert or judge. They know the truth is universal and not contained in just one religion. That is what makes them so friendly. They place no conditions on friendship. Christians, for the most part, do.

Christians accept people my friend. It's when people hear the message that they're sinners and need God's forgiveness that they get all uppity and self-righteous because they would rather trust in their own "goodness" (which they don't have) rather than their creator. "Don't judge me". When people accuse Christians of not tolerating the sinner, what they're actually saying is "why won't you tolerate my sin?".

Sinner(person) vs sin(acts). There's a difference.

In the original texts, Jesus supposedly said he was a child of god and that we are all children of god.

Prove it.
 

MHz

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Mar 16, 2007
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Anyway at a church I would like to hear the wind in the trees, and I bloody well could because in fact a church is not a goddman building, it is the lords house and the lord lives in you, in the temple, christ does not and cannot live in a bloody brick building.
How about one with plasma and broadband and a smattering of VR? (rather than demolish the place, being vacant of God is the important part so the ' replacement' during this 'meantime' is right in front of God and everybody. The odds are the ones in Genesis 1 that were 'made after their kind' are related to the beasts described as being there. Rumor has it there is one sound for birth and one for death for all those created things, the 7 lamps that represent the 7 Churches would 'blink on and off' according to the count. That is the replacement for the patch-work one attributed to Herod the butcher. The first stone one was running as it should be, unfortunately lots of live sacrifices meant the sins were being 'dealt with'. The 3rd stone one is built by Jesus during that first day it will serve until the Great White Throne event and the New Jerusalem becomes the replacement for the temple. God, the Holy Spirit and Christ are represented by 'God', the Throne, and the Lamb in the place that serves for eternity. The ones in the city play the role of the Priests in the first stone temple and like the people of Israel do during the 1,000 year temple that is the house in the chapter this verse comes from. They host Gentiles for the Feast of the Tabernacle, the ones in New Jerusalem will host the various celebrations that happen. Like anointing new babies. BTW the only way to have children in the new earth is to miss being alive for the 1,000 years. That wouldn't justify trying to get into hell so you can become a parent later. The ones inside just take on the role of 'grand-parent' to all the people outside the city rather than being a 'relative' to one family tree.

Eze:47:2:
Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward,
and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward;
and,
behold,
there ran out waters on the right side.

Eze:47:12:
And by the river upon the bank thereof,
on this side and on that side,
shall grow all trees for meat,
whose leaf shall not fade,
neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed:
it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months,
because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary:
and the fruit thereof shall be for meat,
and the leaf thereof for medicine.
 

In Between Man

The Biblical Position
Sep 11, 2008
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I personally have no issue with the Creator; rather it's the idiot humans who think they have the "inside scoop" on who It/She/He/They is/are. No one has the inside scoop on it.

If this were true the Creator would be an asshole for plunking us here with no way to understand him, or understand why we were put here. Fortunately God is not cold and distant, he's personal, and despite what others will tell you, there is no "mystery to life". Some men search for gold and other types of treasure, but the greatest treasure on Earth is God's revealed word to us - the bible. It's the key that unlocks the so-called "mystery to life".
 

MHz

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Mar 16, 2007
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He never claimed to be the only son of god,
Pardon the length but what part of the verses below would not apply to somebody that is an observer and a 'son'?

Proverb:8:23-31 I was set up from everlasting,
from the beginning,
or ever the earth was.
When there were no depths,
I was brought forth;
when there were no fountains abounding with water.
Before the mountains were settled,
before the hills was I brought forth:
While as yet he had not made the earth,
nor the fields,
nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
When he prepared the heavens,
I was there:
when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
When he established the clouds above:
when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
When he gave to the sea his decree,
that the waters should not pass his commandment:
when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Then I was by him, as one brought up with him:
and I was daily his delight,
rejoicing always before him;
Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth;
and my delights were with the sons of men.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
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Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy
In the original texts, Jesus supposedly said he was a child of god and that we are all children of god.


Prove it.

Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. John 20:17
 

In Between Man

The Biblical Position
Sep 11, 2008
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Jesus, if he existed at all...

The exact reason why he said at his last supper "take this bread for it is remembrance of my body". Jesus knew that there would be people who denied his existence, so when he says "take this bread for it is remembrance of my body" he's saying "remember that I existed, I perfectly fulfilled the prophecies, (which is God in the flesh to defeat sin once and for all)".
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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That's an interesting way to put it. I'd have said his actions indicate he's a cruel, capricious, incompetent SOB. You really believe all that nonsense about marching around a city a few times and making the walls fall down is literally true?
Archeologists at Hebrew Uni have proven that wrong when they found Jericho. One more JEEPERS
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
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If you deny the reliability of the bible then you have to deny the reliability of the works of Homer, Aristotle, and Plato to name a few.
Those guys don't make the extraordinary claims the Bible does. Besides, nobody thinks things like the Iliad and the Odyssey are literally true stories and guides to living a good life.

That's not true either. Was Adam created with sin already in him? No. He was created sinless, perfect, and a free moral agent.
If he was sinless and perfect he wouldn't have made that mistake.
 

In Between Man

The Biblical Position
Sep 11, 2008
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It's the message that's important, whether one believes him to be the son of God or a mere man, he had a beautiful and important message, imo.

I really can't understand how so many people who claim to follow him can so totally miss the message.

You're missing the MAIN message, which is you need Jesus Christ and him alone to forgive your sins! Jesus' own words: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)

Loving your enemies and turning the other cheek is only one message he gave us and it's not the main one!
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
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Christians accept people my friend.
Not really, not when it really comes down to it they don't. They're told to go spread the word, and they believe so strongly that they have a lock on the truth that they feel they have both the right and the duty to instruct others and interfere in their lives, whether they want to hear it or not. Who but Christians goes door to door, country to country, peddling their mythology and telling people they're dead and condemned until they've bought the message?

If this were true the Creator would be an asshole for plunking us here with no way to understand him, or understand why we were put here.
Now you're getting it, because that's exactly what he's done. If the understanding were clear, there wouldn't be so bloody many mutually inconsistent versions of it.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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That's not the correct definition of faith at all. And if you insist on putting all your "faith" or trust in yourself so you feel personal comfort, then I'm afraid that's nothing but self-righteousness. Put your faith in God, after all he knows you better than you know yourself!
Tough shyte.... You're allowed your opinions. I'm allowed mine.

See post #301
 
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petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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You're missing the MAIN message, which is you need Jesus Christ and him alone to forgive your sins! Jesus' own words: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)

Loving your enemies and turning the other cheek is only one message he gave us and it's not the main one!
I've told you this reality before and I'll tell you again. He was talking to the Judeans who really really REALLY pissed off God who called of the deal made in the OT.

JEEPERS !!!!

Turning your cheek........ If their best shot failed the first time offering up the other cheek for a left handed whack is an insult not a love offering.

Double JEEPERS!
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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We're not talking about the physical heart here. The "heart" is your spirit and that's where Christ lives, not in your self conscious mind. This is why people often say "my head says yes, but my 'heart' or my 'gut' says no". When people say "heart" or "gut" they're referring to their spirit.
You're either conflicting with yourself or one of those folk who think it's okay for you but not so for anyone else.


Methinks a Kaopectate enema might ease some of your burden
 
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In Between Man

The Biblical Position
Sep 11, 2008
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A first century Jewish zombie who's his own father will arrange for you to live forever if you eat his flesh and drink his blood and tell him telepathically you accept him as your absolute master, then he will remove an evil spell from your soul that we all have because a woman he made from a rib and a pile of dirt was once tricked into eating the fruit of a magic tree by a talking snake. Makes perfect sense.

Oh c'mon now. You gave me heck for making a similar statement about atheism a couple of years back. Specifically, "there was nothing, and nothing was happening to nothing, and then nothing magically exploded for no reason creating everything, and then everything magically rearranged itself for no reason into self-replicating cells which then turned into dinosaurs. (makes perfect sense)."

Is it logical that an all powerful God could raise someone from the dead? Yes.

Is it logical that an omniscient God hears our prayers and thoughts("telepathically" if that's what you want to call it)? Yes.

If God can create time, all space and matter, could he not create a human from dust or whatever he wishes? Of course!

It's actually illogical for you to conclude that an omniscient, omnipotent God could not do these things!

(As you can see I'm only on page 4 of this thread, so I haven't come across your other posts yet. Cheers!)
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Oh c'mon now. You gave me heck for making a similar statement about atheism a couple of years back. Specifically, "there was nothing, and nothing was happening to nothing, and then nothing magically exploded for no reason creating everything, and then everything magically rearranged itself for no reason into self-replicating cells which then turned into dinosaurs. (makes perfect sense)."
It does if you know your chem. "Lifeless" crystals grow to perfection without any outside influence. Amino acids (building blocks of life) self-assemble without outside influence.

Which do you think came first and is more important to life? The cell nucleus or the membrane?