What would YOU want to hear at church?

Spade

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Nov 18, 2008
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MHz is not far off the mark. The the god of Israel evolved from polytheism (cf. El, Asherah, and others) to a form of monotheism, albeit with angels and devils which in other religions would simply be called "gods."
In the Old Testament YWH is refered to as the god of hosts. The hosts were his heavenly armies. He is the chief god of a pantheon.
Religions don't evolve in isolation.
 

L Gilbert

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MHz is not far off the mark. The the god of Israel evolved from polytheism (cf. El, Asherah, and others) to a form of monotheism, albeit with angels and devils which in other religions would simply be called "gods."
In the Old Testament YWH is refered to as the god of hosts. The hosts were his heavenly armies. He is the chief god of a pantheon.
Religions don't evolve in isolation.
lol Not much is clear in Christian mythology. At least not as clear as say, Greek mythology where Erebus slept with Night to produce (with help from Love) the offspring, Ether and Day. Gaea appeared. Then Night all by itself sprouted Fate, Sleep, Dreams, Nemesis, Doom, Death, etc.
Gaea sprouted Uranus, who became her lover, and they sprouted the Cyclopes, the Hecatoncheires, and the Titans.
etc.
Everything can fit in a neat little package, unlike Judeo-Christianity.
I think it's all about interpretation. So the way I think the KJV puts it, this god made Adam, cloned Eve from him, with a little genetic manipulation to the chromosomes and told them to screw but not to screw up. And they did both anyway, kids being kids and all that. And nowhere does it say that this god has/had a main squeeze. But, Mary, being the god's concubine, and producing Yeshua, the illegitimate kid was the result.
To me it's just as daffy as the Greek version but a lot less clear.
 

Spade

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To quote Thomas Jefferson, a founder of the American constitution, who wrote in 1823:
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”
 

L Gilbert

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To quote Thomas Jefferson, a founder of the American constitution, who wrote in 1823:
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”
He was most likely correct.

Bet he didn't think it'd take this long.
lol.
 

adopted

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Order emerges spontaneously all the time, crystals being the most obvious example.

Do crystals emerge because of randomness, or because of precise information and precision processes? Spontaneity isn't the same thing as randomness.

Observing the development of a child in a womb, in ignorance, we might conclude that order is emerging out of chaos, but proper science teaches us not to be so naive, just as proper religion teaches that there is "more than meets the eye."

In the days of Charles Darwin, the cell was understood as a simple blob. We know better today.

The separate yet dependent components of a molecular machine inside a cell could not have all evolved simultaneously with some sort of magic awareness of each other so that they could fit together into a working micro machine. These things were designed for a purpose, and design always implies intelligence.

By his own confession, Darwin would have now rejected his theory. But those whose religion opposes God still cling to his theory, not because it's good science, but because there's an ideological catastrophe behind the alternative.
 

Dexter Sinister

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By his own confession, Darwin would have now rejected his theory.
No, he would not, that story of his deathbed recantation is a fabrication, and even if it were true it wouldn't matter, evolution is firmly established by multiple converging lines of evidence from multiple fields, it's one of the widest ranging, most successful, best attested scientific theories we have.

CG001: Darwin recanted
 

Cliffy

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No, he would not, that story of his deathbed recantation is a fabrication, and even if it were true it wouldn't matter, evolution is firmly established by multiple converging lines of evidence from multiple fields, it's one of the widest ranging, most successful, best attested scientific theories we have.

CG001: Darwin recanted
BOOM! Splash! another BS story blown out of the waters of ideological desperation.
 

Spade

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The trouble with a true believer is not only does he not know what is outside his religion, he does not know what is within it.

The ignorance is generalized.
 

darkbeaver

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Water & Earth are matter and female, Fire & Air are spirit and male, God is androgenous, life is a wedding of the upper(spirit) lower(matter).Wives mothers sisters concubines are all typed matter. Biblical weddings are fusions of matter and light (information).
 

L Gilbert

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In the days of Charles Darwin, the cell was understood as a simple blob. We know better today.
In the days of G Dumbya Bush, aPAlling Martin, etc., people assumed the universe was crafted by a magician. These days, science has shown it is possible to create life from the carbonaceous chondrites that are aboard meteorites that land here. These chondrites are the building blocks of RNA and DNA.
In the past couple years, theoretical physicists have theorised that something can come from nothing and it has nothing to do with magic: Making Something From Nothing: Researchers Find That Matter Can Be Conjured from a Vacuum | Popular Science

The separate yet dependent components of a molecular machine inside a cell could not have all evolved simultaneously with some sort of magic awareness of each other so that they could fit together into a working micro machine. These things were designed for a purpose, and design always implies intelligence.
Assumption. IMO, solar systems are "designed" (in my terminology, they are "ordered"), but I think the design is a result of physical laws, not a magician.

By his own confession, Darwin would have now rejected his theory. But those whose religion opposes God still cling to his theory, not because it's good science, but because there's an ideological catastrophe behind the alternative.
Darwin and his theory were quite correct. Evolution is a result of adaptation. Evolution is fact. Creation is supposition.
 

Cliffy

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The trouble with a true believer is not only does he not know what is outside his religion, he does not know what is within it.

The ignorance is generalized.
Kinda like my brother. When they discovered he had cancer, he had it all over his body, infecting just about every organ... the cancer was generalized.
 

Dexter Sinister

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The separate yet dependent components of a molecular machine inside a cell could not have all evolved simultaneously with some sort of magic awareness of each other so that they could fit together into a working micro machine. These things were designed for a purpose, and design always implies intelligence.
Another fallacy, this time begging the question, you assume it shows design in order to prove it was designed. Real design always implies intelligence, yes, but what you're seeing in biology is an illusion of design that disappears if you inspect things more closely. The human eye from an engineering perspective, for instance, is built upside down and backwards and has a blind spot as a consequence. If that shows design, the designer was incredibly sloppy and incompetent, but it doesn't, what it shows is a structure cobbled together in a minimally workable way from other pre-existing components. The eyes of cephalopods are much better, the right way up and the right way around, with no blind spot. What are we to make of that, that god likes squids and octopuses better than us?
 

adopted

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No, he would not, that story of his deathbed recantation is a fabrication, and even if it were true it wouldn't matter, evolution is firmly established by multiple converging lines of evidence from multiple fields, it's one of the widest ranging, most successful, best attested scientific theories we have.

CG001: Darwin recanted

I wasn't referring to a deathbed recantation -- haven't even heard of it. I'm referring to what he wrote in his books about the fossil record problem (which he hoped would soon be resolved) and about if it might ever be shown that something were "irreducibly complex" (though not in those terms), his theory would absolutely break down.
 

L Gilbert

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I wasn't referring to a deathbed recantation -- haven't even heard of it. I'm referring to what he wrote in his books about the fossil record problem (which he hoped would soon be resolved) and about if it might ever be shown that something were "irreducibly complex" (though not in those terms), his theory would absolutely break down.
Unfortunately for him, Darwin knew nothing of genetics.