What do I benefit from being atheist?
- Thread starter YoungJoonKim
- Start date
Ahhhhhh,,,,, the matter of choice.
Isn't it nice one can choose whatever one wants?
It is as if we were our own gods.
Peace>>>AJ
I've head this one before too , You actually think that it is more morally responsible to claim to know what you do not ( knowledge is evidence ) and structure your life according to a bronze age ideology . Yes I decide what it is moral for me to do and not do , my morality is based on suffering versus happiness and the rational world we live in that doesn't make me a God it makes me a freethinker something of which I'm proud.
The power "to chose" good from evil is defined by God inthe following verse:
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
You do have the power to chose, thereby, to my understanding based on that verse, is as like god.
Doesn't mean you have to accept it as that,for that is your choice.
Peace>>>AJ
Considering we know good and enough, that makes sense. Thank you look3467.
my Sunday is free and..more money? I can care less about more money..
I still have time to read bible and prayer..it doesn't take up much of my life, it allows me to think more critically when exploring bible than doing nothing. And praying.
And..er..I don't know how to respond to that.
Perhaps should science prove a god?
...why even bother...when you and I are still stuck in this universe and we don't even know 1% of it. Its too early for anyone to say "god doesn't exist" because they have not explore the universe nor do they see the future, only prediction.
Do you know what time you will go to bathroom, what time you will EXACTLY wake up?
Time will tell*, not science.
And...ouch
I like this, continue
And if that's not good enough, consider this: you'll have Sundays free to do whatever you want, you'll have more money because you won't be giving any of it to the church, and you'll have more free time because you won't spend any of it praying or trying to fit the findings of science into a pre-scientific and mostly pre-literate Bronze Age view of reality.
my Sunday is free and..more money? I can care less about more money..
I still have time to read bible and prayer..it doesn't take up much of my life, it allows me to think more critically when exploring bible than doing nothing. And praying.
And..er..I don't know how to respond to that.
Perhaps should science prove a god?
...why even bother...when you and I are still stuck in this universe and we don't even know 1% of it. Its too early for anyone to say "god doesn't exist" because they have not explore the universe nor do they see the future, only prediction.
Do you know what time you will go to bathroom, what time you will EXACTLY wake up?
Time will tell*, not science.
And...ouch
I like this, continue
Ah, but if you're atheist it won't take up any of your life. At least prayer won't. I do read the Bible of course, because you can't understand western literature or civilization if you don't, but that's treating it purely as a work of literature itself, which is all I think it is.
OK, now here is a venture you all might want to take, since the bible is just a book.
Are you up to the challenge?
You know what, I will open a new thread for this one, and all are invited:
Title: "Identify the beast"
Peace>>>AJ
YoungJoonKim:
Assuming a higher existing authority doesn't have expectations of it's creation, then all of what Dexter says.
Get it wrong and you(that is the resurrected you) had better have a non-failing contingency plan pleasing to "Him". Sure you can live a life completely detached from religious obligation just as the next religious person, and you may live to a ripe old comfortable age too. But are you absolutely sure that it doesn't come with a price tag and perhaps even this is a test.? Nevertheless your still playing the odds that after death you will not be held accountable for the disruption you caused or that there is no cost for the privledge of seeing and experiencing the wonders of the universe.
The clincher is that if there is eternal punishment then the punishment still doesn't fit the crime and it's still a problem to contend with, and one we can't do anything about from a judicial platform. But then that is of course if this destination is even considered a punishment by God. If it's considered simply an extension of the life we seem to be oriented to on earth, then it's difficult to counter this argument, because God has forwarned us we are choosing our destiny here on earth.
Maybe he expected a little worship and recognition for all that he has given. That doesn't seem too unreasonable to me. If I'm wrong and we are here out of some quirk of nature, then my wasteful minutes of worship every Sunday is just added to the pool of redundant acts that amount to null when I die anyway. I will never know I wasted it, and in a short time relatively speaking neither will anyone else. What I cause in this perceptual godless world serves only the now, or those surviving until they too become extinct. What defines a good act in such a world is defined by man, and I could just as well declare that it be me to decide this, and perhaps chaos is just as morally right as order. Which authority that is man made can claim to say that I'm wrong?
If I am given permission to be atheist, then you relieve me of a lot of obligation, but now released of these shackles, what you wouldn't want me to do is held in check by my own restraints and not by a higher law giver. You confined the liberties I may get and liberties I may have removed to the confines of this planet, when at one time, as well as for other reasons, my behaviour was held in check by hope of a better place and life after death. My conscience now receives it's instruction from myself. If I do a wrong you can appeal to my reasoning to correct me, but I can say your reasoning, either in the collective or individually, is just as prone to error as it is for me, because sometimes I am right and you are wrong, besides I previously decreed that chaos is order. For me it becomes every man for himself and playing this party for all it's worth.
So logic would suggest that it would seem more prudent to "factor in" God than not to. If we are to take this route why not go all the way and give him full recognition as our Supreme benefactor. This gesture is not a hook without a worm. Those who are prepared to take these odds are incrementally rewarded further, all they need is to take the first step.
As an atheist, I still like tossing the occasional dice, so what the heck, just another long shot in my downward spiral to non-existance, right?. ;-)
AndyF
Assuming a higher existing authority doesn't have expectations of it's creation, then all of what Dexter says.
Get it wrong and you(that is the resurrected you) had better have a non-failing contingency plan pleasing to "Him". Sure you can live a life completely detached from religious obligation just as the next religious person, and you may live to a ripe old comfortable age too. But are you absolutely sure that it doesn't come with a price tag and perhaps even this is a test.? Nevertheless your still playing the odds that after death you will not be held accountable for the disruption you caused or that there is no cost for the privledge of seeing and experiencing the wonders of the universe.
The clincher is that if there is eternal punishment then the punishment still doesn't fit the crime and it's still a problem to contend with, and one we can't do anything about from a judicial platform. But then that is of course if this destination is even considered a punishment by God. If it's considered simply an extension of the life we seem to be oriented to on earth, then it's difficult to counter this argument, because God has forwarned us we are choosing our destiny here on earth.
Maybe he expected a little worship and recognition for all that he has given. That doesn't seem too unreasonable to me. If I'm wrong and we are here out of some quirk of nature, then my wasteful minutes of worship every Sunday is just added to the pool of redundant acts that amount to null when I die anyway. I will never know I wasted it, and in a short time relatively speaking neither will anyone else. What I cause in this perceptual godless world serves only the now, or those surviving until they too become extinct. What defines a good act in such a world is defined by man, and I could just as well declare that it be me to decide this, and perhaps chaos is just as morally right as order. Which authority that is man made can claim to say that I'm wrong?
If I am given permission to be atheist, then you relieve me of a lot of obligation, but now released of these shackles, what you wouldn't want me to do is held in check by my own restraints and not by a higher law giver. You confined the liberties I may get and liberties I may have removed to the confines of this planet, when at one time, as well as for other reasons, my behaviour was held in check by hope of a better place and life after death. My conscience now receives it's instruction from myself. If I do a wrong you can appeal to my reasoning to correct me, but I can say your reasoning, either in the collective or individually, is just as prone to error as it is for me, because sometimes I am right and you are wrong, besides I previously decreed that chaos is order. For me it becomes every man for himself and playing this party for all it's worth.
So logic would suggest that it would seem more prudent to "factor in" God than not to. If we are to take this route why not go all the way and give him full recognition as our Supreme benefactor. This gesture is not a hook without a worm. Those who are prepared to take these odds are incrementally rewarded further, all they need is to take the first step.
As an atheist, I still like tossing the occasional dice, so what the heck, just another long shot in my downward spiral to non-existance, right?. ;-)
AndyF
Declare yourself a religion and get the tax breaks that the Evangelicals the Catholics and all the others get....
Get yourself a stylish robe of some kind and adopt a symbol you can print on a card and stick in the window of your car so you can park where you want.... "ON SPECIAL HOLY MISSION the CHURCH OF THE PURPLE ONION....."
Something like that....
Then of course you can start a TV ministry and even if you aren't picked up by a network you'll get scrutinized by W5 or MarketPlace and wham...you're a celebrity right up there with Martha Stewart and OJ Simpson..... well maybe not as popular as them but how could Oprah not have you on her show.....
Get yourself a stylish robe of some kind and adopt a symbol you can print on a card and stick in the window of your car so you can park where you want.... "ON SPECIAL HOLY MISSION the CHURCH OF THE PURPLE ONION....."
Something like that....
Then of course you can start a TV ministry and even if you aren't picked up by a network you'll get scrutinized by W5 or MarketPlace and wham...you're a celebrity right up there with Martha Stewart and OJ Simpson..... well maybe not as popular as them but how could Oprah not have you on her show.....
Atheist Benefits
While not actally an atheist myself, I am acutely aware of the radical benefits, such as freedom from the obligation to go to church, resistance to self-righteousness and delusion, and a higher likelihood of attaining to a "home in the afterlife" as you put it.
It is a common Christain delusion, despite the warnings and abject denials of Jesus, that all who call upon the name of the lord will be saved. But the truth is that you must fight the good fight, keep the faith, and finish the race. The truth is that the tree will be judged by the fruit - that many are called but few are chosen.
Many atheists demonstrate and 'keep the faith' by right conduct, with no fear of Hell or promise of reward. Jesus knows them and they know his good nature by heart though not by word of mouth. Many Christians assure themselves that they are saved despite the fact that the trial is not over, and judgement has not been rendered.
Your self-delusion will be your own undoing. The tale of the good Samaritan may as well have been the tale of the good atheist. You are a self-righteous Pharisee. You're going to broil like a ball-park weiner!
While not actally an atheist myself, I am acutely aware of the radical benefits, such as freedom from the obligation to go to church, resistance to self-righteousness and delusion, and a higher likelihood of attaining to a "home in the afterlife" as you put it.
It is a common Christain delusion, despite the warnings and abject denials of Jesus, that all who call upon the name of the lord will be saved. But the truth is that you must fight the good fight, keep the faith, and finish the race. The truth is that the tree will be judged by the fruit - that many are called but few are chosen.
Many atheists demonstrate and 'keep the faith' by right conduct, with no fear of Hell or promise of reward. Jesus knows them and they know his good nature by heart though not by word of mouth. Many Christians assure themselves that they are saved despite the fact that the trial is not over, and judgement has not been rendered.
Your self-delusion will be your own undoing. The tale of the good Samaritan may as well have been the tale of the good atheist. You are a self-righteous Pharisee. You're going to broil like a ball-park weiner!
Karrie said
"Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in your garage makes you a car."
This is the unvarnished truth, begs the question; what is a car? Ha! Or maybe, what is a Christian? What is faith/belief?
The offer of meaning is not without value. Meaning is beyond the symbols of talk and scripture. Meaning what you say or believe requires proof, as love demands expression, or it is frustrated, empty. How is atheism demonstrated? Is it with love? Atheism is a negative, is nothing, which is indeed preferable to delusion for the seeker of truth. But is there only delusion in this world, or does truth exist to find?
Would you risk your life to save your child? There is the simple proof of what you believe, of your love, and there is no greater demonstration. So you have it already, belief in love more than your own life. What else is there? What do you want, a pocket idol? Thank goodness that this test is rarely so close, but neither is it ever far away. Meaning is ultimately in love. Nothing else comes close. Let love be your purpose and you have all the religion that is good, the rest is bull****.
What are you to do? A wise man said, "Love one another." How are you to do it? A wise man said, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." So do, so know grasshopper.
"Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in your garage makes you a car."
This is the unvarnished truth, begs the question; what is a car? Ha! Or maybe, what is a Christian? What is faith/belief?
The offer of meaning is not without value. Meaning is beyond the symbols of talk and scripture. Meaning what you say or believe requires proof, as love demands expression, or it is frustrated, empty. How is atheism demonstrated? Is it with love? Atheism is a negative, is nothing, which is indeed preferable to delusion for the seeker of truth. But is there only delusion in this world, or does truth exist to find?
Would you risk your life to save your child? There is the simple proof of what you believe, of your love, and there is no greater demonstration. So you have it already, belief in love more than your own life. What else is there? What do you want, a pocket idol? Thank goodness that this test is rarely so close, but neither is it ever far away. Meaning is ultimately in love. Nothing else comes close. Let love be your purpose and you have all the religion that is good, the rest is bull****.
What are you to do? A wise man said, "Love one another." How are you to do it? A wise man said, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." So do, so know grasshopper.
Using figures that I've just pulled out of the air, I figure that if you aren't paying 10% to the Church then in the end you will have, all things being equal and all, over $200,000 tax free in your pocket. And as everyone knows, that kind of scratch can buy you a little piece of heaven right here on good old Earth. ;-)
For me, some of the benefits of atheism include being able to think unencumbered by religious views, losing fear of what happens after death (am I going to hell?), looking at things realistically (evolution as opposed to creationism), arguing with the faithful lol, doing things rather than praying that they happen, etc.
Carl Sagan - "In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion."
Albert Einstein - "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
Madeline Murray - "
An Atheist loves himself and his fellowman instead of a god. An Atheist knows that heaven is something for which we should work now—here on earth—for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist thinks that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue, and enjoy it. An Atheist thinks that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellowman can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment. Therefore, he seeks to know himself and his fellowman rather than to know a god. An Atheist knows that a hospital should be build instead of a church An Atheist knows that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man. He wants an ethical way of life. He knows that we cannot rely on a god nor channel action into prayer nor hope for an end to troubles in the hereafter. He knows that we are our brother's keeper and keepers of our lives; that we are responsibile persons, that the job is here and the time is now."
John Burroughs - "Science has done more for the development of western civilization in one hundred years than Christianity did in eighteen hundred years."
Dan Barker - "I have something to say to the religionist who feels atheists never say anything positive: You are an intelligent human being. Your life is valuable for its own sake. You are not second-class in the universe, deriving meaning and purpose from some other mind. You are not inherently evil—you are inherently human, possessing the positive rational potential to help make this a world of morality, peace and joy. Trust yourself."
Bruce Calvert - "Believing is easier than thinking. Hence so many more believers than thinkers."
H L Mencken - "... Christian theology, like every other theology, is not only opposed to the scientific spirit; it is also opposed to every other form of rational thinking."
Steven Weinberg - "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Bertrand Russell - "I say quite deliberately that the Christian religion, as organized in its churches, has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. "
James Madison - "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution. "
Anonymous - "Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day. Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish. "
George Bush - "I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots."
heheheheh
Carl Sagan - "In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion."
Albert Einstein - "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
Madeline Murray - "
An Atheist loves himself and his fellowman instead of a god. An Atheist knows that heaven is something for which we should work now—here on earth—for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist thinks that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue, and enjoy it. An Atheist thinks that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellowman can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment. Therefore, he seeks to know himself and his fellowman rather than to know a god. An Atheist knows that a hospital should be build instead of a church An Atheist knows that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man. He wants an ethical way of life. He knows that we cannot rely on a god nor channel action into prayer nor hope for an end to troubles in the hereafter. He knows that we are our brother's keeper and keepers of our lives; that we are responsibile persons, that the job is here and the time is now."
John Burroughs - "Science has done more for the development of western civilization in one hundred years than Christianity did in eighteen hundred years."
Dan Barker - "I have something to say to the religionist who feels atheists never say anything positive: You are an intelligent human being. Your life is valuable for its own sake. You are not second-class in the universe, deriving meaning and purpose from some other mind. You are not inherently evil—you are inherently human, possessing the positive rational potential to help make this a world of morality, peace and joy. Trust yourself."
Bruce Calvert - "Believing is easier than thinking. Hence so many more believers than thinkers."
H L Mencken - "... Christian theology, like every other theology, is not only opposed to the scientific spirit; it is also opposed to every other form of rational thinking."
Steven Weinberg - "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Bertrand Russell - "I say quite deliberately that the Christian religion, as organized in its churches, has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. "
James Madison - "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution. "
Anonymous - "Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day. Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish. "
George Bush - "I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots."
heheheheh
I want my benefit and I mean benefit.
There is no greater hypocrit than a religious hypocrit, save a meaningless soul.
Just because you can protest and demand does not mean that the world owes you any benefit. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Who can satisfy an unappreciative person?
What will you recognize? Money? Meaning? Name your currency and perhaps we may trade. What on Earth are you looking for? What do you want from us? And if you receive it, what do we receive in return?
You have already taken five minutes of my life. You owe me. Where is my benefit?
There is no greater hypocrit than a religious hypocrit, save a meaningless soul.
Just because you can protest and demand does not mean that the world owes you any benefit. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Who can satisfy an unappreciative person?
What will you recognize? Money? Meaning? Name your currency and perhaps we may trade. What on Earth are you looking for? What do you want from us? And if you receive it, what do we receive in return?
You have already taken five minutes of my life. You owe me. Where is my benefit?