What are we doing in Afghanistan

[Colpy]

Re: RE: What are we doing in Afghanistan

Perhaps he is equipped to make decisions based on the politics of the reason — however, decision-making should be left, in terms of important issues, to the House of Commons and the Senate. The job of the Canadian Armed Forces (and a valiant job of it, they do) is to carry out on those orders and decisions.

I have to disagree on a technicallity.

The deployment and use of the Canadian Armed Forces is the business of the Government of Canada, NOT the House of Commons.

The simple fact is that, in today's world, rapid reaction with military force is necessary, this does not allow for debates.

Likewise, military actions can not be instigated, and/or abrogated on the whim of today's public opinion, or on the will of a simple majority in the House. These things are far too easily swayed by circumstance, for instance a week of heavy casualties. The Government must hold firm on any course of action.

If the Canadian people heartily disagree with the usage of the Canadian Armed Forces, they get a say at least once every five years.

Edited to say:

I meant to add to this rant that I have no problem with discussion of the matter in the House, I just thought it should be pointed out that the Government, in this case, should not be bound by the opinion of the House.

 

[FiveParadox]

Yes, you are correct on your questioning of the technicality, Colpy; however, under normal circumstances, the action of the military is considered by the House of Commons (since action authorized by any higher-up is often seen as undemocratic and therefore lacking of legitimacy, unless, of course, it is a situation of insurgency, or apprehended war).

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: What are we doing in

Mogz, we keep running arround in this circle as you put it because it is my right to do so, or would you rather I be shot for my point of view. .

Naw.

Trapped, skinned, turned into a hat.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist....just kidding of course)

 

[Mogz]

RE: What are we doing in

Mogz, we keep running arround in this circle as you put it because it is my right to do so, or would you rather I be shot for my point of view. General Hillier is no doubt qualified to speak about matters military, however
geo-political matters are beyond his position and qualifications. The citizens of Canada have an interest in and have questions about this mission.You are sworn to defend the rights and freedoms of this country, among those rights is the right to debate, and thats democracy you are either a believer in democracy and will defend my right to dissent or you will not and if you do not then you
are not a believer in democracy but a believer in somthing else. You can disagree but you cannot advocate
for no debate and remain a democratic individual, its just that simple. The assertion that debate will affect troop morale has little to do with the necessity of debate over this issue and may be seen as part of the difficulties encountered with democracy, or would you favour the blanket approval of a totalitarian regime which of course could be inncorrect but would only be discovered after the fact and to late to prevent the damage.

Yes, I want you shot :roll:.

The truth be told, that was a rhetorical question. I don't really care what you post or where you post it. I'm more concerned with how you constantly make an ass of yourself. But hey, free Country right?

I really don't see how some journalist ensconced in a Toronto studio apartment believes that he knows more about the "geo-political matters" of a country than the Officers and Soldiers who are actually IN the country!

Right Dory, he doesn't. He's just one of the many Canadians who think they know better than the people who run the show. In the 21st Century, people have begun to develop a sort of righteousness complex. People read one book, or see one news broadcast and instantly they're the expert. With the information age came unparalleled access to documents, "facts", and knowledge bases. Unfortunately these sources are more often than not flawed and in some cases completely inaccurate. Since the dawn of the information age, society has stopped thinking for itself. People hear something and instantly take it for gospel. No one is immune from this, however sadly many in our society take it to the extreme. Decades ago our society would never have publically denounced a military campaign. We would never publically demean the commander of the military. It was a different time, when people stood behind their nations ideals, even if they didn't fully agree with them, because they realized that patriotism is the cornerstone of a nation. This authors crap is posted because people like beaver fall for it. The people who feel a need to go against the grain of society. They deem themselves "deep thinkers", people who have this self-proclaimed omnipotent outlook on life and what's best for the nation, when in reality they're so out of touch with the REAL world due to the tripe they've read and heard that they stubbornly stick to their arguments in the face of overwhelming facts. This author is just another of those ignorant individuals who overwhelm our society. A fact we cannot change.

Perhaps he is equipped to make decisions based on the politics of the reason — however, decision-making should be left, in terms of important issues, to the House of Commons and the Senate. The job of the Canadian Armed Forces (and a valiant job of it, they do) is to carry out on those orders and decisions.

Whoa here, time out, flag on the play, travelling. The House of Commons does not make military decisions Five. They offer input and make a judgement call based on information the Military has brought to them, but they do not make military decisions. Hillier is, as has been stated in this post, the highest ranking member of the CF. His job is to plan and execute every aspect of the Military. With Afghanistan he signs off on everything that occurs overseas. He doesn't sit down with the House of Commons and decide what troops to send, what their Rules of Engagement (ROEs) will be, and how their operation will be set up. He (and his staff) plans that themselves. They then take the plans to the Minister of National Defence, who puts it up to the Prime Minister. They then approve or disapprove the plan. Think of it like this;

Military = Dog
Government = Owner

The Government controls the leash, however they have little control over the dog. Yes the Government can control aspects of the military, but the House of Commons does not decide everything. For example, if the Task Group in Afghanistan wants to launch a mission, they do not ask the Government, they just do it. To sum up; The Government approves, the Military does all the thinking.

 

[darkbeaver]

"The people who feel a need to go against the grain of society. They deem themselves "deep thinkers", people who have this self-proclaimed omnipotent outlook on life and what's best for the nation, when in reality they're so out of touch with the REAL world due to the tripe they've read and heard that they stubbornly stick to their arguments in the face of overwhelming facts. This author is just another of those ignorant individuals who overwhelm our society. A fact we cannot change. "

Actually the people who go against the grain of society are the individuals who drive change in all the arts and science even that of a military nature, if it were not for them Mogz you,d still be dressed in skins and carrying a club. Mogz you,ve used the word overwhelm twice in your frothing rant. So idiot boy according to you were being overwhelmed by facts and ignorant individuals, I know that you certainly haven,t being overwhelmed by facts but you definately have been overwhelmed by ignorance, and that,s a fact your to stupid to change.

 

[I think not]

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: What are we doing in

Your humour is contagious. HA/HA

 

[Alberta'sfinest]

RE: What are we doing in

I am one of those deep thinkers. I have a very high IQ, and most of my gifts lie in rational thinking. I don't just test high in this category, nobody tests higher, although I have some equals. A chimp and the average person are seperated by about two deviation points. I'm 4-5 deviation points higher than average. I'm training to be one of those people who find solutions to problems that this thread is talking about. I know what we're doing because its what I'd do. I'm not trying to sound like an arrogant prick or belittle others, but not everyone has the capacity to actually grasp the entire picture mentally to spot all the problems, or see all the answers. Many people can write better than me, play music, or understand other things like emotions much better than I, but when it comes to comprehension, problem spotting, problem solving, or just spotting the best course of action for a given scenario, I'm one of the best, and I'm getting better as my knowledge expands, giving me more to work off of and base solutions around.

My biggest problem is trying to explain why. The reason that I have this problem is because of pre-knowledge. I can explain algebra, but if you don't know how to add and subtract yet, you'd look at me like I'm crazy. If you need the blank filled in to understand the conclusion, please ask and I'll try and fill it the best I can. I don't think anyone is dumb for asking these questions, as I asked the same ones myself to know what I know now. It doesn't matter how smart you are if you don't have knowledge to work off of. I'll try and explain our situation the best I can without writing a book.

Look around the world, we have 8 billion people and limited resources. We have two types of thinking and cultures, the ones that rule themselves, and the ones that are ruled. Recently, it seems like we're all ruled but I'll get to that in a bit. As you look around you'll realize that resources are running out. Resources that are essential to survival. These resources include oil, water, arable land, minerals, ores, etc. We blew through these resources living in a unsustainable fashion and now it's time to switch to a more economically and environmentally sustainable way of life. This way of life requires different infrastructure, and we'd need about 4-5 more earths for everyone to live this way. It wasn't a complete waste to blow through resources, as it allowed for the development of technology that is actually going to allow us to sustain more, than if we hadn't developed it at all. But there is a catch, there isn't enough for all the population which exploded with this wastefulness. Now tight resources are starting to inhibit growth and make our current system obsolete, so we're getting ready for the changeover.
We have one group that includes China, Russia, and their allies who have one idea of how this new world should run, and us westerners have a different idea. The world has to unite as one for either to work perfectly, so one must go. Are system is that the people themselves should dictate the direction of society, while the ex-commie nations feel that people need to be controlled to ensure survival. War as a result of this situation is imminent, and should be kicking into gear as tight resources start to collapse our current systems and force the changeover. Someone had to act first, so we did. Our strategy is to limit their supplies, and hold them off until they essentially succumb to starvation, disease, and constant attacks. That's why we're in Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan. Iraq and Iran have large reserves and have the control ideology we dispise, and they would have worked against us if we didn't invade Iraq, or don't invade Iran. Our govenrments will take any action, and even fabricate evidence to make these moves. Al-quaeda and terrorism is a good example of this fabrication. Afghanistan had a controlling government and would have helped the Chinese run a pipeline from the gulf. We are there to make sure this doesn't happen. It is much easier to defend these countries then to attack them later, so we pre-empted it.
Now back to how we are moving to a system of control. Our politicians in just about every free country have slowly been working to restrict our freedoms, to prevent those who would dissent these wars because they lack the understanding of the situation, from ripping our countries apart and causing us to lose the war. The US even built containment camps to round up these protesters and dissidents to keep this from happening. It's control during war, for post war freedom. Hopefully it doesn't become corrupted and remain a police state. This is our reality, and we have to deal with it, or it'll deal with us. Iran is going to be the trigger point at which Russia and China will start to act. The US has set the date for june to invade, july at the latest. If you are an american and between the ages of 18-39, you'll be drafted to fight this war, or be in a camp. The legislation was drawn up a couple years back to change the draft laws by allowing the government to draft students, and women. The selective services were overhauled at the same time to prepare their systems and upgrade information to make the draft go smoother. You can look these bills up if you like, I've seen them. I'm not going to find them for you as I don't feel like wading through thousands of bills to find the right ones again.
Here in Canada, we'll see a spike in unemployment which will fill our military ranks as the war starts to begin. Our strategy is more to protect coastlines and stamp out any attemps at destroying the supply lines for the US/EU coalition.
The only thing you can hope for, or pray for if that's what you do, is to win, and possibly return home if forced to fight.

You don't want to know what option B was if war didn't occour and ideological differences were settled.

 

[darkbeaver]

SAS soldier quits Army in disgust at 'illegal' American tactics in Iraq
By Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 12/03/2006)

An SAS soldier has refused to fight in Iraq and has left the Army over the "illegal" tactics of United States troops and the policies of coalition forces.

After three months in Baghdad, Ben Griffin told his commander that he was no longer prepared to fight alongside American forces.

Ben Griffin
Ben Griffin told commanders that he thought the Iraq war was illegal

He said he had witnessed "dozens of illegal acts" by US troops, claiming they viewed all Iraqis as "untermenschen" - the Nazi term for races regarded as sub-human.

The decision marks the first time an SAS soldier has refused to go into combat and quit the Army on moral grounds.

It immediately brought to an end Mr Griffin's exemplary, eight-year career in which he also served with the Parachute Regiment, taking part in operations in Northern Ireland, Macedonia and Afghanistan.

But it will also embarrass the Government and have a potentially profound impact on cases of other soldiers who have refused to fight.

On Wednesday, the pre-trial hearing will begin into the court martial of Flt Lt Malcolm Kendall-Smith, a Royal Air Force doctor who has refused to return to Iraq for a third tour of duty on the grounds that the war is illegal. Mr Griffin's allegations came as the Foreign Office minister Kim Howells, visiting Basra yesterday, admitted that Iraq was now "a mess".

Mr Griffin, 28, who spent two years with the SAS, said the American military's "gung-ho and trigger happy mentality" and tactics had completely undermined any chance of winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi population. He added that many innocent civilians were arrested in night-time raids and interrogated by American soldiers, imprisoned in the notorious Abu Ghraib prison, or handed over to the Iraqi authorities and "most probably" tortured.

Mr Griffin eventually told SAS commanders at Hereford that he could not take part in a war which he regarded as "illegal".

He added that he now believed that the Prime Minister and the Government had repeatedly "lied" over the war's conduct.

"I did not join the British Army to conduct American foreign policy," he said. He expected to be labelled a coward and to face a court martial and imprisonment after making what "the most difficult decision of my life" last March.

Instead, he was discharged with a testimonial describing him as a "balanced, honest, loyal and determined individual who possesses the strength of character to have the courage of his convictions".

Last night Patrick Mercer, the shadow minister for homeland security, said: "Trooper Griffin is a highly experienced soldier. This makes his decision particularly disturbing and his views and opinions must be listened to by the Government."

The MoD declined to comment.

 

[Mogz]

RE: What are we doing in

Actually the people who go against the grain of society are the individuals who drive change in all the arts and science even that of a military nature, if it were not for them Mogz you,d still be dressed in skins and carrying a club. Mogz you,ve used the word overwhelm twice in your frothing rant. So idiot boy according to you were being overwhelmed by facts and ignorant individuals, I know that you certainly haven,t being overwhelmed by facts but you definately have been overwhelmed by ignorance, and that,s a fact your to stupid to change.

Yes, you're the savior of society :roll:. This is exactly what i'm talking about. You have this self-inflated image of how "important" you are to society. Secondly I was never dressed in skins and carrying a club, therefore it is impossible for me to go back to such a state. My "frothing rant", as you so eloquently put it, clearly highlights (with your assistance in this post) that people try to justify every aspect of society, even subjects they have no knowledge on. I personally think on this subject I have more knowledge than you could ever hope to amass. Having punched my time, having been to the region in question, I can answer any question better than you could ever hope to. This is exactly what I was talking about in my previous post. You know nothing of Afghanistan, nothing of the military, nothing of external defence, yet you speak as if you know everything. My point in the post before, as with this one, is that society is full of people like you. Individuals who lack any knowledge in a given area, but just because they read one book or see a newcast, they instantly deem themselves the subject matter expert. I am by no means an ignorant person beaver. I fully understand why we're in Afghanistan. I understand why my fellow soldiers have died and I fully understand why people can't come to terms with it. I have never said I know everything, but in this case I know more than you could ever hope to learn. I'm sorry you cannot look past the cloud you live in.

I am one of those deep thinkers. I have a very high IQ, and most of my gifts lie in rational thinking. I don't just test high in this category, nobody tests higher, although I have some equals.

:roll:

Look around the world, we have 8 billion people and limited resources.

That high IQ is really working out for you isn't it? The Worlds population is around 6.5 Billion.

We have one group that includes China, Russia, and their allies who have one idea of how this new world should run,

China and Russian are not allied. In fact Russian is allied with us. You're treating Russia as if they're still the U.S.S.R. Welcome to the 21st Century, home of a Democratic Russian Federation.

Afghanistan had a controlling government and would have helped the Chinese run a pipeline from the gulf. We are there to make sure this doesn't happen. It is much easier to defend these countries then to attack them later, so we pre-empted it.

You are aware that we have no control over the Afghan Government right? If they want to build this "pipeline" then they can do it. We're in Afghanistan at the request of the Afghan National Government, an invitation that can be revoked at any time. For a "deep thinker" you cetainly tote the ignorant stance don't you?

The US has set the date for june to invade, july at the latest. If you are an american and between the ages of 18-39, you'll be drafted to fight this war, or be in a camp.

Oh for the love of...did you learn this while you were having lunch with the President? Please, anyone that understands combined operations knows that the U.S. military is not able to invade Iran right now. With over 100,000 ground forces in Iraq and an additional 25,000 in Afghaistan, the U.S. land force is stretched too thin. Even if they do instate a draft tomorrow, there is no way they could contruct an effective fighting force by June. Once again, for a "deep thinker" you often tend to overlook the blatantly obvious.

Now if you'll excuse me i'm going to vomit.

 

[Curiosity]

Mogz

Doncha know the ratio of IQ ascends directly equivalent to the number of tokes on a Sunday afternoon. Five points = one large one.

 

[Alberta'sfinest]

RE: What are we doing in

The recorded number is actually 6,446,131,400 as of july 2005. This is of course not counting the people that aren't included in the census. It's probably closer to about 7 billion. The actual amount is irrelivant to my point anyways since the earth can only sustain between 1-3 billion when we move to a sustainable system. 8 billion was a slight exageration, but I don't think it takes away from the problem at hand.

Did I say China and Russia were allied, or did I just put them in the same group and included their allies.People in the same boat tend to paddle together.

"You are aware that we have no control over the Afghan Government right? If they want to build this "pipeline" then they can do it. We're in Afghanistan at the request of the Afghan National Government, an invitation that can be revoked at any time. For a "deep thinker" you certainly tote the ignorant stance don't you?"

But you're talking about the current government we helped establish, not the taliban government that went rougue on the US. Did you forget that we removed a government before we created a new one? Who do you think we're fighting against there?

"Oh for the love of...did you learn this while you were having lunch with the President? Please, anyone that understands combined operations knows that the U.S. military is not able to invade Iran right now. With over 100,000 ground forces in Iraq and an additional 25,000 in Afghaistan, the U.S. land force is stretched too thin. Even if they do instate a draft tomorrow, there is no way they could contruct an effective fighting force by June. Once again, for a "deep thinker" you often tend to overlook the blatantly obvious.

Now if you'll excuse me i'm going to vomit."

I didn't say that they were going to do it alone. When the UN puts sanctions on Iran for their nuclear activities, Iran will follow through to stop oil flow from the area. The EU will be hard hit and be right on board. The US is going to initiate the attack with the air force. Since I don't see them bombing Iraq exstensively anymore, they are free for the job. This would take appoximately 6-9 months to complete the bombing raids before troops could move in, so even if a draft is instated at the onset of war which it will likely be, they have time to train fresh recruits to move in as the air force finishes. The US army also doesn't give a damn about victory in Iraq, only holding it, so many of the troops will be marched into Iran right from Iraq.

PS- didn't anyone ever tell you that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

 

[Said1]

Arrogance is an even lower form.

I have to admit, I'm from the Malthus camp. Even though the natural rate of increase in western nations is on the decline, it's still rising significantly elsewhere, in over populated nations despite marked decreases as of late.

I appreicate your effort. Have you heard the old phrase "less is more"? You're lacking on some crucial detail, but we all make mistakes and forget things. Even I said "Israel" instead of "Israeli Settlements", remember? But I don't claim to be a genious. Back tracking is a really low form of something too, but I forget what. Ooops, I did it again.

 

[Mogz]

The recorded number is actually 6,446,131,400 as of july 2005. This is of course not counting the people that aren't included in the census. It's probably closer to about 7 billion. The actual amount is irrelivant to my point anyways since the earth can only sustain between 1-3 billion when we move to a sustainable system. 8 billion was a slight exageration, but I don't think it takes away from the problem at hand.

Exactly, around 6.5 billion as I stated. Mogz takes the win.

Did I say China and Russia were allied, or did I just put them in the same group and included their allies.People in the same boat tend to paddle together.

Fair enough. Still, China and Russian do not belong in the same group. They're not in the same boat...one being communist, the other a democracy.

But you're talking about the current government we helped establish, not the taliban government that went rougue on the US. Did you forget that we removed a government before we created a new one? Who do you think we're fighting against there?

That Government was democratically elected. We provided security for the election in 2004. The Taliban was never elected, they just stood up one day and said "we rule this land". With regard to who we're fighting, we're fighting the people who ate away at Afghanistan like a cancer. We're fighting the people who target us as one of their chief enemys. Laslty, with reagard to removing Governments, we removed the German Government of 1933-1945 and replaced it with a more "sympathetic one" post War. This is the same situation, we removed the Taliban as it proved a DIRECT threat to our way of life. We instated Karzai and the people of Afghanistan elected him in to office in the fall of 2004. I fail to see a problem with that.

I didn't say that they were going to do it alone. When the UN puts sanctions on Iran for their nuclear activities, Iran will follow through to stop oil flow from the area. The EU will be hard hit and be right on board. The US is going to initiate the attack with the air force. Since I don't see them bombing Iraq exstensively anymore, they are free for the job. This would take appoximately 6-9 months to complete the bombing raids before troops could move in, so even if a draft is instated at the onset of war which it will likely be, they have time to train fresh recruits to move in as the air force finishes. The US army also doesn't give a damn about victory in Iraq, only holding it, so many of the troops will be marched into Iran right from Iraq.

PS- didn't anyone ever tell you that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

The U.S. Air Force is this 2nd most stretched force, Just because the planes aren't dropping bombs, that doesn't mean they aren't sitting on the tarmacs on alert 5 waiting to go up. The U.S. Air Force, their Army Air Arm, Marine Air Arm, and Naval Air Arm, are so stretched that whole bases in the U.S. are devoid of aircraft. When I stopped over at Keflavik Naval Air Station (Iceland) on my way home from Afghanistan, they had litterally dozens of aircraft heading to the Gulf, Germany, or Italy in support of the War in Iraq and the War in Afghanistan. To say their Air Force is free and ready to go is a misnomer.

This would take appoximately 6-9 months to complete the bombing raids before troops could move in, so even if a draft is instated at the onset of war which it will likely be, they have time to train fresh recruits to move in as the air force finishes.

Where do you get these numbers from? 6-9 months for a bombing raid? On what targets? Military, logistical, economic? I want to know how you quantified the duration of the air war. Also during the 2nd War in the Former Yugoslavia, NATO bombed Serbia in to submission in undr 80 days. 80 days of casual bombing (for lack of a better term). If NATO had wanted to utterly bomb Serbia back in to the stoneage we could have done so in less than a month. A 6-9 month bombing war against Iran is sheer stupidity. With regard to reserves, do you have any idea how long it takes to train a soldier in a modern Army? Equip him? Maintain him? It takes upwards of 6 months to fully train a basic combat soldier. That doesn't include the cost and equipment required to outfit him to fight. You deem a draft will be put in to place however the U.S. military is in no position to train, equip, and maintain a draft force set to deploy this summer. During World War II the U.S. military took over a year to get their draft in place and working properly. Even then they had a shortage of weapons, ammunition, and equipment for the draftees. During Vietnam it took what is called a "sloping build up" to bring their troop strengths in Vietnam up to what they needed to be, this took almost three years. This however wasn't a true draft as the draftees signed on for a term of 1 year of service. A real draft is an indefinite term of service. By doing a short term draft they were able to recycle equipment, however at a cost of quality, a lesson they learned all too well. I'll tell you this, a War in Iran will not occur in June, it isn't militarily possilbe given the current conflicts going on in the World.

The US army also doesn't give a damn about victory in Iraq, only holding it, so many of the troops will be marched into Iran right from Iraq.

Once again proof you have no idea what you're talking about. You claim that when the U.S. "invades Iran", that all troops in Iraq will simply do a right turn and march in to Iran? Are you aware of how stupid that is? Here's why it's stupid from a military stand point?

1. Where are the chief U.S. logistical bases in the Persian Gulf? Kuwait. I'm not sure if you're aware but in order to get to Iran from Kuwait you do have to go through Iraq.

2. If the U.S. just stopped paying attention to Iraq, every militant in that nation would be hitting any logistical train that the U.S. tried to push through Iraq on to Iran. As the war progressed deeper in to Iran, that logistical train would grow larger, and thus more susceptible to attack. The same thing happened to the Germans in World War II on the Russian front. They over extended their supply lines and thus lost the War.

3. Lastly, and most importantly in my opinion, is the fact that Iranian military is much larger than anything the coalition saw in Iraq. While the Iranians aren't well trained by Western standards, they are trained well enough to do the job. Envision the U.S. fighting across both Iran and Iraq and try to imagine the casualties they'd take. Until Iraq is fully pacified, Iran is not a viable option.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: What are we doing in

Actually the people who go against the grain of society are the individuals who drive change in all the arts and science even that of a military nature, if it were not for them Mogz you,d still be dressed in skins and carrying a club. Mogz you,ve used the word overwhelm twice in your frothing rant. So idiot boy according to you were being overwhelmed by facts and ignorant individuals, I know that you certainly haven,t being overwhelmed by facts but you definately have been overwhelmed by ignorance, and that,s a fact your to stupid to change.

Yes, you're the savior of society :roll:. This is exactly what i'm talking about. You have this self-inflated image of how "important" you are to society. Secondly I was never dressed in skins and carrying a club, therefore it is impossible for me to go back to such a state. My "frothing rant", as you so eloquently put it, clearly highlights (with your assistance in this post) that people try to justify every aspect of society, even subjects they have no knowledge on. I personally think on this subject I have more knowledge than you could ever hope to amass. Having punched my time, having been to the region in question, I can answer any question better than you could ever hope to. This is exactly what I was talking about in my previous post. You know nothing of Afghanistan, nothing of the military, nothing of external defence, yet you speak as if you know everything. My point in the post before, as with this one, is that society is full of people like you. Individuals who lack any knowledge in a given area, but just because they read one book or see a newcast, they instantly deem themselves the subject matter expert. I am by no means an ignorant person beaver. I fully understand why we're in Afghanistan. I understand why my fellow soldiers have died and I fully understand why people can't come to terms with it. I have never said I know everything, but in this case I know more than you could ever hope to learn. I'm sorry you cannot look past the cloud you live in.

I understand that you knew what you were doing when you were in Afghanistan but I also know that you have no idea about why you were sent there. I,ll take a day off next week and amass your level of knowledge. If you fully understand why Canada is in Afghanistan, then tell us. You can shit on me all you like Mogz, I love it, ya foul mouthed little twirp.

 

[Sassylassie]

Ah, Darkbeaver I see now that you are a artsy fartsy pacifist. Perhaps you would look better if you were being worn on the head of an RCMP officer.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: What are we doing in

Sassy it,s an artsy fartsy pacifist not a, da, and I fart in your general direction.

 

[I think not]

You know in the beginning Darkbeaver you were entertaining, soon thereafter you became an annoyance, lately you have become a riddle.

 

[Sassylassie]

Go drape yourself on the head of an RCMP officer Darkbeaver. At least you'd be keeping someone warm and dry.

 

[elevennevele]

There should be a debate. Our role is suppose to be peacekeeping. If it goes beyond that, then our role in Afghanistan should be reassessed. If the USA didn't attack the wrong country (Iraq) they could have secured stability in Afghanistan with the proper resources. I don't think it's up to Canada to fix the United States mess for not focussing on Osama bin Laden and the real culprits.

I think the people of Afghanistan deserve a stable political system, but who is to say they are even ready for the system we ourselves understand. We could end up becoming military oppressors in an attempt to create something that will fail due to cultural/ideological reasons.

The best attempt at change throughout the world in recent years has been though economic incentives. When the standard of living is improved, peoples standards towards their well being improve.

The United States military operations in Iraq however has only insured a religious Shia dominated government take power. That is far from the change I think the USA envisioned. It also isn’t a recipe for lasting democratic change either. This despite all their ‘might’ and ‘shock and awe’ and ‘billions and billions’ (207 billion) spent and a whole bunch of lives both American and Iraqi to do what they have done. To do very very little.

Now our PM is talking and strutting around in such a way that you think he was reading right out of George Bush’s handbook and that is really dangerous. USA’s attitudes have pinned them in a corner and it continues to get worst but again their leadership says to “stay the course” despite continually being on the wrong side of the idea of progress they like to suggest.

I’m all for peacekeeping, but I’m not for military occupation — if it becomes that regardless of what we would like to call it.