Whales, seals, and oxen: what's the difference?

[Lessie]

We all want bans on the seal hunt and whaling, yet we see nothing wrong with eating beef.

Personally, I eat vegan (though will eat non-vegan when necessary such as to not offend a host for example). However, I don't understand the logic in people who oppose whaling and sealing but who are not equally vocal about eating beef, chicken, etc.

Am I the ony one who sees a double-standard here or is there something I'm missing?

It is not a simple question. And your position is quite popular.

I think that one of the main principle of environmental protection is that people can’t give up consumption of meat, therefore they must grow and kill domestic animals. But we do not really need in whales and seals, therefore we must stop to kill them. People must stop the unneeded cruelty.

 

[TenPenny]

We all want bans on the seal hunt and whaling, yet we see nothing wrong with eating beef.

I'm not sure how you define 'all', but according to my definition, you're starting with an incorrect premise.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

So in the name of consistency, who here among those who support a ban on commercial whaling and sealing would also support a ban on commercial fishing?

I for one, would support a total ban on hunting and fishing (except of course, Indians and native people all over the world, who hunt and fish only to eat, they would not be allowed to make money off it).

At the same time, I have no problem farming any animal, including fish for human consumption. Animal farming does not interfere with nature in any way; we may do with the farm animals as we choose.

When we visited Australia two years ago, I tried crocodile meat. They don’t shoot crocodiles in the wild of course, it is banned. However they grow crocodile on the farms, and use it for food, leather etc.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

In this respect, when we visited Galapagos Islands, I asked our tour guide if they had considered farming the gigantic turtles for food and oil. The turtles produce an oil. Since turtles are vegetarians, the oil is of totally vegetable origin, and is supposed to be very good, as good as olive oil.

He didn’t seem happy with the suggestion. The very idea of killing the turtles, even if grown on the farm, seemed scandalous to him.

 

[taxslave]

Whales make cuter pictures which makes for better donations.

 

[countryboy]

I for one, would support a total ban on hunting and fishing (except of course, Indians and native people all over the world, who hunt and fish only to eat, they would not be allowed to make money off it).

At the same time, I have no problem farming any animal, including fish for human consumption. Animal farming does not interfere with nature in any way; we may do with the farm animals as we choose.

When we visited Australia two years ago, I tried crocodile meat. They don’t shoot crocodiles in the wild of course, it is banned. However they grow crocodile on the farms, and use it for food, leather etc.

I would not support a total ban on hunting and fishing, as it is an important part of many different cultures.

Animal farming, depending on how its done, does indeed interfere with nature in many ways. Our U.S. and Canadian method of mass animal farming (e.g. feedlots for cattle) concentrate wastes in one confined area, leading to pollution of ground water. Still on cattle - but only as one example - the feed they're given in these feedlots makes the cattle sick (grain and supplements vs. grass) beginning with a deterioration of their livers. This necessitates antibiotics being fed to them in large amounts to keep them alive long enough to be killed at a decent weight. In addition, this feed creates huge upsets in their digestive systems, resulting in inordinate amounts of methane gas being passed.

There are many, many more examples of how animal farming can interfere with nature.

 

[Machjo]

I for one, would support a total ban on hunting and fishing (except of course, Indians and native people all over the world, who hunt and fish only to eat, they would not be allowed to make money off it).

Why only them? Don't you think they'd want to promote their culture? If that's the case, why not raise restrictions on commercial fishing and hunting through the roof and simply allow subsistence fishing and hunting (sport fishing and hunting ought to be banned). Beyond that, it should be limited to farming.

At the same time, I have no problem farming any animal, including fish for human consumption. Animal farming does not interfere with nature in any way; we may do with the farm animals as we choose.

I agree, but why not expand that to any animal. If someone decided to farm seal, what would e the problem with that?

When we visited Australia two years ago, I tried crocodile meat. They don’t shoot crocodiles in the wild of course, it is banned. However they grow crocodile on the farms, and use it for food, leather etc.

I certainly do agree that if you're going to kill it, then use it, and use every usable part of it.

 

[Machjo]

I'm not sure how you define 'all', but according to my definition, you're starting with an incorrect premise.

OK, I was being a little loose in my wording there, and was not even necessarily including myself in this 'all'. Sorry for the loose wording.

 

[countryboy]

In this respect, when we visited Galapagos Islands, I asked our tour guide if they had considered farming the gigantic turtles for food and oil. The turtles produce an oil. Since turtles are vegetarians, the oil is of totally vegetable origin, and is supposed to be very good, as good as olive oil.

He didn’t seem happy with the suggestion. The very idea of killing the turtles, even if grown on the farm, seemed scandalous to him.

It doesn't surprise me that a bizarre suggestion like that would upset him. That's what happens when people from so-called developed countries blunder into a foreign culture of which they know nothing, and attempt to "improve things" based on their own values.

Sometimes it's best to observe, listen, and keep one's great ideas to oneself and just enjoy the holiday. We don't know everything...

 

[gerryh]

one thing to keep in mind..... how long it takes for a Galapagos turtle (and actually they are tortoises)

"Sex can be determined only when the tortoise is 15 years old, and sexual maturity is reached at 20 to 25 years old. The tortoises grow slowly for about 40 years until they reach their full size. Reproductive prime is considered to be from the ages of 60–90."

I'd say the above is the main reason for surprise. Maturity not reached till 20-25 years old...... sjp's statement just showed how ignorant he was/is concerning these tortoises.

 

[countryboy]

one thing to keep in mind..... how long it takes for a Galapagos turtle (and actually they are tortoises)

"Sex can be determined only when the tortoise is 15 years old, and sexual maturity is reached at 20 to 25 years old. The tortoises grow slowly for about 40 years until they reach their full size. Reproductive prime is considered to be from the ages of 60–90."

I'd say the above is the main reason for surprise. Maturity not reached till 20-25 years old...... sjp's statement just showed how ignorant he was/is concerning these tortoises.

Well, I suppose the world of science could create some kind of growth hormone to speed up maturity, but I'm not sure I'd want to be eating any of the oil. I don't think I'd look that great with a set of boobs.

 

[TenPenny]

At the same time, I have no problem farming any animal, including fish for human consumption. Animal farming does not interfere with nature in any way; we may do with the farm animals as we choose.

Can you explain how animal farming (including fish) does not interfere with nature in any way? What do you mean by 'nature'?

 

[lone wolf]

At the same time, I have no problem farming any animal, including fish for human consumption. Animal farming does not interfere with nature in any way; we may do with the farm animals as we choose.

No ... some of them are still illegal and quite frowned upon.

 

[AnnaG]

Should we apply your logic to say the overpopulation of humans? Personally, I would like to see an open season on poachers and trophy hunters.

.... and most politicians, people who value $ over other people and other life, jaywalkers, people who go too slow on the highway, murderers, rapists, bigots, religious zealots and extremists, .........

 

[AnnaG]

I for one, would support a total ban on hunting and fishing (except of course, Indians and native people all over the world, who hunt and fish only to eat, they would not be allowed to make money off it).

There are a number of people around here who rely on wildlife to help make ends meet and not all are natives. Typical Gliberal city scuz; haven't a clue about life outside their own minute world.

At the same time, I have no problem farming any animal, including fish for human consumption. Animal farming does not interfere with nature in any way; we may do with the farm animals as we choose.

Straight out BS. Beef cattle use up a tremendous amount of land, for instance. People in general like living on relatively flat spaces near water sources and what this land usually is, is the best land for growing things.

When we visited Australia two years ago, I tried crocodile meat. They don’t shoot crocodiles in the wild of course, it is banned. However they grow crocodile on the farms, and use it for food, leather etc.

Ya think? Along with gators, a variety of birds, snakes, rabbits, cape buffalo, llamas and alpacas, and a variety of other wildlife.

 

[AnnaG]

Well, I suppose the world of science could create some kind of growth hormone to speed up maturity, but I'm not sure I'd want to be eating any of the oil. I don't think I'd look that great with a set of boobs.

Aaaahhh, more Frankenfoods, just what we want.

 

[AnnaG]

Can you explain how animal farming (including fish) does not interfere with nature in any way? What do you mean by 'nature'?

Anything outside his miniscule world, obviously. Prime NIMBY material.

 

[YukonJack]

"I for one, would support a total ban on hunting and fishing (except of course, Indians and native people all over the world, who hunt and fish only to eat, they would not be allowed to make money off it)."

Would the Indians and Native peoples be doing their hunting using snowmobiles, ATV's, binoculars, rifles and gortex winter suits?

 

[countryboy]

Whales, seals, and oxen: what's the difference?


Well, let's see...Whales and seals both swim, so their method of getting around is the same. I think oxen could swim but, having 4 legs, they likely prefer walking. Other than that, I guess they're all just basically a bunch of protein.

Seriously, the whole issue of farming animals is likely making a lot of people sick...physically. All the "improvements" in modern farming methods have been done with the wrong goals in mind...higher production, lower costs, faster growth, etc.

If the primary goal was "better quality food" (meaning healthy, good nutrition, etc.) farming methods would be much different. And it's possible that some animals just can't be farmed successfully following a goal like that.

The bulk of the population in Canada and the U.S. still doesn't take their food very seriously, meaning that they eat mainly for "cheap" convenience. It might be changing (to eating for good health and well being), but it's slow...

 

[YukonJack]

"Last edited by Ron in Regina; 32 minutes ago at 03:48 PM."

Ron, you got into the annoying habit of butchering my post with no explanation. Is it bcause you CAN?

Once you told me that if I have a problem with your actions, I should send you a PM.

How about you sending ME a PM before or even after you abused your power?