Western Women #1 Converts to Islam

Curiosity

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Tracy

Any group whether it be religious or cultural or any other name they choose to adopt as their "reason for belief" that women are to be regarded only as sexual objects and child bearers are so off the chart
in humanity, I can only view them as extremists and mentally impaired.

You are correct - Africa is the birthplace of FGM - however why the intellectual middle eastern population wove it into their religion - inarguably the easiest way to achieve conformity making it a religious tradition - tells me that intellect in females is disregarded well over their service as sexual release objects only for the male.

FGM practices should be punishable by death - as they not only mutliate the women, they determine a life of poor health and even death thinking only to capture that woman's recepticle for their own uses denying her - her choice, her own pleasure and her humanity itself.

At the onset of the FGM when a young woman of puberty is beginning to understand the sexual role of females, along comes the "doctor" or rather "cutter/slicer" to sentence her to servitude for the remainder of her existence.

How any western "modern" woman can accept this for her sisters to me is fully involved in oppression. To say nothing, do nothing, permit and condone, to allow the practice to continue is fratricide.

And under the cover of devotion to one's religion is merely a weak and terrified excuse.

As long as any religion continues this practice they have fouled religion itself.

http://www.members.tripod.com/~Wolvesdreams/FGM.html
 

tracy

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I completely agree with you about FGM. It is a barbaric practice. It's a barbaric cultural practice. Religion is just the latest excuse for it. It's not practiced among most of the world's muslims.
 

Just the Facts

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Re: RE: Western Women #1 Conv

gopher said:
"You do realize that under Sharia, the woman in the link you posted is guilty of a crime punishable by death, don't you?"


You realize that under the law, those guilty of the offenses are also punishable by death?

Yes, but that is very much besides the point.
 

Colpy

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Re: RE: Western Women #1 Conv

gopher said:
"Many feminists would argue that men are oppressed in western countries as are women."


That much is true. Perhaps it should be emphasized more. And it should be discussed for all cultures without prejudice.

What hogwash!

Perhaps we should all pull our heads out of our asses and quit competing for the latest positiion as "victim".

Never has a society been so coddled, so spoiled as is that in the west.
 

gopher

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RE: Western Women #1 Conv

"Yes, but that is very much besides the point."


Maybe in your opinion. But it is a sure bet that nobody would bother to discuss what goes on in the ME if it wasn't for Bush's imperialism. That misconduct that you see on the tape would never have occurred without his criminal invasion in that part of the world.
 

Just the Facts

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Re: RE: Western Women #1 Conv

gopher said:
"Yes, but that is very much besides the point."


Maybe in your opinion. But it is a sure bet that nobody would bother to discuss what goes on in the ME if it wasn't for Bush's imperialism. That misconduct that you see on the tape would never have occurred without his criminal invasion in that part of the world.

Also besides the point. This thread is about women converting to Islam. That's not an opinion.
 

Colpy

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Re: RE: Western Women #1 Conv

gopher said:
"Never has a society been so coddled, so spoiled as is that in the west."


A perfectly meaningless comment.

What I was refering to was the comment that some feminists would consider MEN as well as women oppressed in western society.

BALONEY!

For both genders.

We're so spoiled with comfort and liberty we can't get off our asses to defend it, physically or intellectually, domestically, or in the international sphere.
 

gopher

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RE: Western Women #1 Conv

"This thread is about women converting to Islam."


And, as has been established by every link previously presented, this high amount of conversion is because they feel "liberated" by their experience.

Kudos to them.


~~ We're so spoiled ~~

Defend it from what? Except for Bush's wars, the West is doing quite well at the moment.
 

Curiosity

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Hear hear Colpy

It is so much more "in tempo" to sit back and remark idly - well that's their choice - their religion - their way and continue on with our comfortable
lives.

We deny our interference on religious grounds while we watch what is tantamount to the worst physical abuse on this planet - undefended.

AIDS, FGM, child birth/death, mutilation, physical abuse, starvation and worst of all - servitude of the soul.
 

Just the Facts

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Re: RE: Western Women #1 Conv

gopher said:
"This thread is about women converting to Islam."


And, as has been established by every link previously presented, this high amount of conversion is because they feel "liberated" by their experience.

Yeah, at first.
 

gopher

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RE: Western Women #1 Conv

Is it fair for Westerners to be judging them? Shouldn't they be allowed to apply their own set of standards for themselves?
 

Just the Facts

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Re: RE: Western Women #1 Conv

gopher said:
Is it fair for Westerners to be judging them? Shouldn't they be allowed to apply their own set of standards for themselves?

Of course. As you say, if they're happy, kudos to them. I just wanna know what happens when they change their mind, and decide they don't really want to be Muslim anymore.
 

gopher

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RE: Western Women #1 Conv

I cannot answer that but can give examples of Christians who have had difficult experiences such as the Jim Jones cult, Scientology, Moonies, etc.
 

Curiosity

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Re: RE: Western Women #1 Conv

gopher said:
Is it fair for Westerners to be judging them? Shouldn't they be allowed to apply their own set of standards for themselves?

Mr. G

I have read some amazing things on forums but that remark wins hands down for the most limp-wristed excuse.

Let's not look - maybe it will go away?

Let's not tell it like it is - it's too uncomfortable?

Amazing.
 

gopher

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RE: Western Women #1 Conv

Another silly remark. Why don't you try to answer my question in a rational manner?

In the USA we have millions of abortions and Middle Easterners view that as genocide. Should they be allowed to dictate to the USA how to run its political system because they disapprove of our politics?

Ridiculous.
 

tracy

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Re: RE: Western Women #1 Conv

gopher said:
Is it fair for Westerners to be judging them? Shouldn't they be allowed to apply their own set of standards for themselves?

Some things shouldn't be judged. They are a matter of taste and preference. Other things are universal. It is completely wrong to mutilate a girl as those who practice FGM do whether they are muslim or christian or jewish or animist.

The danger in saying that no one should ever judge is that no one ever will.
 

Curiosity

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Mr. G - what a strange comparison you have made....

I hope you can comprehend this:

Abortions - while I personaly view them as a terrible solution to whatever ails "modern society"..... they are still a choice and I would fight for that choice while disagreeing with the concept.

Oppression of the female - with the very young female - committing acts of mutilation on them from some notion of keeping them as personal chattel as dictated by some wild hair inclusion into their "religion" - is not a choice.

It equates with branding of cattle with even more destruction to their bodies and eventually health to mark ownership.

In modern and free society - we prefer choice regarding our bodies - abortions included unfortunately - and do not impose the procedure of unwanted abortion on all of our young unmarried pregnant females.
 

gopher

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RE: Western Women #1 Conv

Jews circumcize male babies and women wear snoods which are just like hijabs. If one group is to be criticized then the other should be as well.
 

tracy

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Re: RE: Western Women #1 Conv

gopher said:
Jews circumcize male babies and women wear snoods which are just like hijabs. If one group is to be criticized then the other should be as well.

I am not a fan of male circumcision (I won't participate in them as a nurse), but they are not the same as female genital mutilation. The vast majority of FGM includes removal of the entire clitoris which is not the same as removing the foreskin. The more serious form (infibulation) is absolutely barbaric. A circumcized man doesn't require cutting of his genitals in order to allow him to have sex.