Vegetarian diets

[YukonJack]

mabudon, did I say anything about potatoes having eyes? Did I say anything about vegatables/plants experiencing pain?

I merely said that when you decide to boil, fry, steam or eat raw a carrot, potato or a bean, you are killing a LIVING thing, no worse and no better than killing a cow, rabbit or pig.

And just so that you know, science today can and did take a piece of sheep and from it cloned a new sheep. Remember Dolly? And that ain't no fairy tale.

 

[Praxius]

mmmmmm Portabello top sauteed in caesar (or ranch) salad dressing and eaten in a sandwich.

Um, if you aren't used to it and ever eat moose or other strong flavored game meat, you'll be belching out the back a lot, too, between runs to the loo.

I've eaten moose and a pile of other things, and I've eaten portabello mushrooms before... it was how they processed the mushrooms into a burger patty that made them taste horrible. If they were just the mushrooms on top of an actual burger, that'd be a different story.

 

[karrie]

I've eaten moose and a pile of other things, and I've eaten portabello mushrooms before... it was how they processed the mushrooms into a burger patty that made them taste horrible. If they were just the mushrooms on top of an actual burger, that'd be a different story.

what, you don't think that meat flavoured vegetables, like vegetarian pepperoni, are organic and healthy? lol.

 

[YukonJack]

"what, you don't think that meat flavoured vegetables, like vegetarian pepperoni, are organic and healthy? lol."

Name me just one thing that illustrate more vividly the words 'phony' and 'hypocrite' than "vegetarian pepperoni" or "meat flavoured vegetables".

Were the vegetables used producing these culinary and organic masterpieces grown with manure as fertilizers?

 

[Praxius]

Nociceptors.

Of course it's different. Plants have evolved completely different response mechanisms to stress. There is no known mechanism by which plants could be said to experience pain.

Uh oh.... I hope I don't have to haul out my old post detailing the various scientific tests on plant's responses to stimuli and pain?

People think that because plants don't have a brain, that they're not worth considering, yet jellyfish have no known brain, but have eyes, can co-ordinate themselves through complicated terrain and hunt/kill/eat fish and other small creatures. Not only that, but when they detect they're being attacked or killed, they automatically release their sperm/eggs to make sure their species/dna survive.

Some plants eat small animals and insects as well.

Plus the fact that plants use thorns, shells, poison, and other forms of protection to keep themselves alive from predators and other dangers, in some level they are aware that they can be at risk, can be damaged/injured and can be killed.

Case in point:

When tomatoes detect an insect is attacking/eating them, they send out a chemical response that makes it's leaves and other parts harder to digest for the insect and turn them off, among other things.

One could sum these things up as basic electrical stimuli/response and nothing more, yet that's all that occurs in our own brains, so what's the difference besides our own level of self centeredness?

We think that the only way someone can sense pain is if they have a central nervous system and a brain to register the pain.... but as we all know, pain is subjective, as some people may find pleasure in other things people find painful.... All pain is is our own subjective identification of the electrical messages sent to our brain. We either like a sensation or we don't, and we respond accordingly to how our species is designed, much like any other living thing on this planet.

Regardless of all of this, no matter if you only eat animals, reptiles, plants or insects, in order for one thing to live, another must die and what really matters is the amount of lives one takes to sustain their own.

Since you usually have to kill and eat more plants to survive then you do from one animal that can feed multiple people, One has to re-think exactly who are the worst "Murderers" of the bunch ;-)

 

[karrie]

"what, you don't think that meat flavoured vegetables, like vegetarian pepperoni, are organic and healthy? lol."

Name me just one thing that illustrate more vividly the words 'phony' and 'hypocrite' than "vegetarian pepperoni" or "meat flavoured vegetables".

Were the vegetables used producing these culinary and organic masterpieces grown with manure as fertilizers?

Hypocritical seems like a stretch to me. Many vegetarians I know don't quit eating meat because of the taste... they quit eating it based on ethics reasons, environmental reasons, etc. Many miss the taste. Getting a 'taste' without killing an animal doesn't seem hypocritical to me, just, highly processed and chemical laden.

 

[JLM]

I find there isn't much more nonsensical than the discussion about pain inflicted to animals to provide meat. Does the animal suffer any less when being used to make shoes or belts or purses or mink fur coats? I would like to see one question answered....................How is the nutritional value of Tofu superior to meat?

 

[Praxius]

what, you don't think that meat flavoured vegetables, like vegetarian pepperoni, are organic and healthy? lol.

I imagine they're somewhat healthy and organic in some degree.... but for me what matters is the taste, texture and what it does to my insides.... if it tastes horrible, has the texture of solidified snot and makes my guts all gassy and makes me poop all day.... it doesn't seem at all worth the effort of making the food product, purchase it, prep it and eat it.

I mean for me, what exactly is the reward?

That I'm eating healthier and helping out the planet in some way?

I can do all that by walking, planting a few trees and still be able gobble up a choked chicken. (dirty pun intended)

 

[Praxius]

I find there isn't much more nonsensical than the discussion about pain inflicted to animals to provide meat. Does the animal suffer any less when being used to make shoes or belts or purses or mink fur coats? I would like to see one question answered....................How is the nutritional value of Tofu superior to meat?

What, you never wore a Tofu Hat before? :lol:

It's pretty good to wear when off-road biking and you fall.... and if you get lost you got something to eat.

 

[JLM]

Hypocritical seems like a stretch to me. Many vegetarians I know don't quit eating meat because of the taste... they quit eating it based on ethics reasons, environmental reasons, etc. Many miss the taste. Getting a 'taste' without killing an animal doesn't seem hypocritical to me, just, highly processed and chemical laden.

People can make all kinds of arguments for different diets and personally I don't care what anyone else eats other than I would hate to see anyone suffer from malnutrition. I think the "balanced diet" is a fairly sensible way to go. I do however have a concern about diets that lack vitamin B12 and the sources of B12 are very limited.

The Vegetarian Society - B12 Information Sheet

 

[JLM]

What, you never wore a Tofu Hat before? :lol:

It's pretty good to wear when off-road biking and you fall.... and if you get lost you got something to eat.

Thank Christ there is a valid use for such disgusting stuff....................:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[YukonJack]

Balanced diet varies from year to year, from one group of scientists to another.

Butter is bad for you one year, good for you the next. Same with eggs, white bread, red meat, wine, etc., etc.

What is a constant is that scientists "publish or perish". So any group of scientists - in order to hang onto their grants - go to any and all lengths to publish anything and everything contrary to the prevailing current opinion.

I live by the common sense that consume anything you want IN MODERATION.

 

[JLM]

Balanced diet varies from year to year, from one group of scientists to another.

Butter is bad for you one year, good for you the next. Same with eggs, white bread, red meat, wine, etc., etc.

What is a constant is that scientists "publish or perish". So any group of scientists - in order to hang onto their grants - go to any and all lengths to publish anything and everything contrary to the prevailing current opinion.

I live by the common sense that consume anything you want IN MODERATION.

That's my philosophy.

 

[talloola]

I am a vegetable lover, but I have to make sure I don't
eat too many, as they cause too much 'activity' in the
gut, not comfortable, but the rule is - 2-3 servings of
fruits and vegetables a day, as they are eaten in the
same catagorie, and should be balanced with each other.
I used to eat lots of veggies and hardly any fruit until
I had a visit with a good dietician, who told me to balance
fruits and veggies each day.

I also don't eat too much red meat, but would never be a
vegetarian. I love chicken and turkey, and a little bit
of fish, and I would eat far too many eggs if I had my
way, but the little voice in my head makes me keep them
down to a sensible quantity.
The meats I do avoid, and hardly eat at all are, bacon,
sausages and cold cuts and the very salty ones, salami
etc., I like them all, but keep those meats to a minimum, and only small servings, once in a while.
(I love 'good' bacon, and when I do eat it, I enjoy it so
much, it's like a special treat once in a while).


There are lots of places to makes selections of good
quality meats, even safeway and other such stores, have
a selection of meats that are naturally raised, and no
additives or anti biotics.

 

[JLM]

I am a vegetable lover, but I have to make sure I don't
eat too many, as they cause too much 'activity' in the
gut, not comfortable, but the rule is - 2-3 servings of
fruits and vegetables a day, as they are eaten in the
same catagorie, and should be balanced with each other.
I used to eat lots of veggies and hardly any fruit until
I had a visit with a good dietician, who told me to balance
fruits and veggies each day.

I also don't eat too much red meat, but would never be a
vegetarian. I love chicken and turkey, and a little bit
of fish, and I would eat far too many eggs if I had my
way, but the little voice in my head makes me keep them
down to a sensible quantity.
The meats I do avoid, and hardly eat at all are, bacon,
sausages and cold cuts and the very salty ones, salami
etc., I like them all, but keep those meats to a minimum, and only small servings, once in a while.
(I love 'good' bacon, and when I do eat it, I enjoy it so
much, it's like a special treat once in a while).


There are lots of places to makes selections of good
quality meats, even safeway and other such stores, have
a selection of meats that are naturally raised, and no
additives or anti biotics.

I find the big beef sausages very hard to resist, I also love bacon but avoid it due to the salt. WHY does everything have to be salted so much, haven't these people heard of refrigeration???????? :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Johnnny]

folks you gotta eat meat, in my business the vegetarian has as much energy as the kid who jacks off too much, and they both usually dont last

 

[karrie]

folks you gotta eat meat, in my business the vegetarian has as much energy as the kid who jacks off too much, and they both usually dont last

One of the vegetarians I know does triathlons and marathons as well as a decent amount of weight training. People who don't eat right will have low energy... vegetarianism doesn't necessarily mean poor diet.

 

[Johnnny]

good point karrie, i guess the folks i met who are into that thing just had poor diet plans, which would make sense cause i bet your athlete friend doesnt eat just nachoes for dinner

 

[darkbeaver]

darkbeaver, unless you developed the ability of photo synthesis, no matter what you eat, you are killing a living thing. Your justification of vegetables not having eyes and therefore could be rent squashed is a lame excuse and a pretentious and phony disregard for life. Cutting up a potato, slicing up a carrot or boiling beans is no different from killing a chicken, a rabbit or a pig. Your false logic is clearly displayed and proven by your own words: "Hunting and fishing is different". Could you tell us WHY??

Game has a fair chance of escape or eating me and I have not developed a relationship with it. I understand my logic is flawed and I'm still a cold hearted killer of life but that is because I'm still only human.

 

[karrie]

good point karrie, i guess the folks i met who are into that thing just had poor diet plans, which would make sense cause i bet your athlete friend doesnt eat just nachoes for dinner

Nope, no living off nachos. Lentils, beans, etc factor heavily into his diet, as well as the 'gross' veggies many don't want to eat, like broccoli, spinach, etc.