1. no one said it was a right
2. Mr. Pot calling a junky illegal?
3. what others have said about harm reduction and reduced crime, HIV, used needles lying around alleywayz, etc.
Vancouver’s safe-injection site
- Thread starter Unforgiven
- Start date
2. Mr. Pot calling a junky illegal?
3. what others have said about harm reduction and reduced crime, HIV, used needles lying around alleywayz, etc.
What do you call a place where you have impunity from the law?
What would happen if a police officer went inside the Insite clinic, arrested a person in possession of heroin, and dragged him to the police station?
People would be screaming because the RIGHT for this individual to use Insite was violated. Once you give someone a place where they are exempt from law, you create a right.
The finger isn't on me at the moment, it's on the poor folks who use Insite. Don't change the subject.
It really hasn't put a dent in the problems of these people. HIV and littered needles still overrun the downtown eastside. Crime may be down since Insite opened, but that's more than likely due to the stepped up law enforcement. This was part of the 4 pillar approach. Prevention (educating youth), treatment (drug and alcohol programs), harm reduction (insite) and law enforcement.
The last thing a heroin addict needs is heroin, especially when a good portion of these souls are mentally ill.
Shut down Insite.
Perhaps the bottom line in all of this is what is the least costly for the taxpayer what is least harmful for the druggie. We do have some laws on the books that could use "fine tuning".
The only people who seem to complain are the ones who don't live downtown /inner core and don't have to deal face to face with the people who use facilities such as Insite or one of HUNDREDS of Needle Exchange programs Canada wide.
As for calling them low-life junkies, odds are extremely high you have one in your family. It's still junk when it's in a pill form. Keep that in mind when passing judgement.
As for calling them low-life junkies, odds are extremely high you have one in your family. It's still junk when it's in a pill form. Keep that in mind when passing judgement.
Of course they would. Again you go out of your way to show that you can't quote nor comprehend even simple concepts.
Isn't there a thread on dancing with the stars or American idol that desperately needs your level of input?
Yup. All needles are accounted for and sharps are put into a container for disposal at Insite.
Granted some here feel they would be better off leaving them in play grounds or parks for the kids and dogs to step on barefoot. I don't get that, but there you go.
Who has impunity from the law?
Why would a police officer on the Vancouver force, who happen to support Insite btw, go in and arrest a person without a complaint?
Really? People would be screaming because an addict got arrested? They get arrested every day so what the hell are you talking about?
The finger isn't on me at the moment, it's on the poor folks who use Insite. Don't change the subject.
Yeah this is true, but you're no less a hypocrite for that fact. The argument you make is applied to you. You enjoy Cannabis, it's illegal, you should be arrested, jailed and most of your stuff taken away from you and sold to support the system preventing you from using and dealing drugs.
Of course it has. The research shows that clearly. There is no cure for HIV so no matter what those with HIV will always have HIV. Why do you expect an injection site to cure HIV? Every needle used and disposed of at Insite is a needle that isn't going to end up in a park or playground or where someone could get stuck by it. Do you realize how stupid it sounds when you say crime has been reduced by a four pillar approach so one pillar should be removed?
Heroin addicts are going to get Heroin. There is nothing you or anyone else is going to do about that. Nothing. You really need to understand that part first before you can manage to understand harm reduction. Heroin is physically addictive. That means that you just don't stop using it without causing some problems.
Generally someone who is addicted to injecting drugs, is self medicating. Some do have mental health problems. Just because you allow the government to cut funding to services that help those with drug or mental health issues doesn't mean the problem is resolved. Neither does it mean that you moral obligation to you fellow man is fulfilled.
Insite as intended, uses proven techniques to reduce the harm that IV drug addiction has on both the addict and the community the addict lives in.
Increasing referrals to health and social programs
Reducing overdose fatalities
Reducing the transmission of blood-borne infections like HIV and Hepatitis C
Reducing injection-related infections
Improving public order
The only person who is able to help an addicted person break the addiction is the addicted person. Do what you like, but unless the addicted person wants to quit, there is no changing the addiction.
Having the right people with the right resources on hand when the addict chooses to try and kick the addiction provides a much better chance that the addict will have success over simply ignoring the problem. All the good things that come from harm reduction helps the rest of the community as well.
I'm not a person who considers addiction to be a disease, I know that's the common parlance for it, but that's not what it is in my view. Regardless of the reason, it begins with a choice, a very poor choice, a choice undertaken for a variety of reasons and it takes an extreme force of will to stop making that choice. In fact, it can be argued that, once that path is taken, choice doesn't even become part of the equation. It is at this point, I believe, that everyone who utilizes the services of Insite is at, beyond the point where they can make the simple decision not to use. They no longer have that option really, to simply stop using, not without an extreme force of will and one hell of a lot of help.
So these are the individuals that partake of the services of Insite, services which also include counselling, healthcare, housing assistance, and yes a safe place to inject where needles are disposed of properly. None of these things are present with an addict who is using on the street. You can legislate these people and their activities to hell and back, you will not solve any of the problem. So, I think, we need to ask ourselves this question. What do we want here? Do we want to curb as much drug use as may be possible, prevent the spread of infectious diseases, prevent more dirty needles from being left around the neighbourhood, and help as many of these individuals as possible? Or do we just want to be right?
Tough on crime is a political slogan, a standard election style quip that makes the voting public think that something is being done. Dealing with crime is a process that involves more than building prisons to house criminals. It also involves prevention, and as contrary as it may seem, part of the process of preventing drug use in some cases may just include providing an atmosphere where they can use, with the safety of both the user and the public in mind, so that all the elements that can help to reduce the use of drugs can also be provided.
So these are the individuals that partake of the services of Insite, services which also include counselling, healthcare, housing assistance, and yes a safe place to inject where needles are disposed of properly. None of these things are present with an addict who is using on the street. You can legislate these people and their activities to hell and back, you will not solve any of the problem. So, I think, we need to ask ourselves this question. What do we want here? Do we want to curb as much drug use as may be possible, prevent the spread of infectious diseases, prevent more dirty needles from being left around the neighbourhood, and help as many of these individuals as possible? Or do we just want to be right?
Tough on crime is a political slogan, a standard election style quip that makes the voting public think that something is being done. Dealing with crime is a process that involves more than building prisons to house criminals. It also involves prevention, and as contrary as it may seem, part of the process of preventing drug use in some cases may just include providing an atmosphere where they can use, with the safety of both the user and the public in mind, so that all the elements that can help to reduce the use of drugs can also be provided.
In the early 1900s when cocaine, heroin and cannabis were first restricted 1% of the population was addicted. Today 100+ years later we still have 1% addiction and have spent TRILLIONS trying to fight it and have decimated millions of families with incarcerations.
Now what? What is next?
The opposition in Ottawa has it's outline on Canadian drug policies: EndProhibition | EndProhibition .
Now what? What is next?
The opposition in Ottawa has it's outline on Canadian drug policies: EndProhibition | EndProhibition .
I pretty much agree with everything you say (must be 'cause we're related.....:lol
Having said that I think the bottom line is it doesn't matter whether it's a "disease" or not- we could call it a "mal function". In our society and I believe it's the right thing to do we help people who have made poor choices or simple mistakes, the same way we do to the poor schmuck who turns left instead of right on the ski hill and smacks into a tree. We have to face the fact that not ALL addicts are going to overcome their addiction but aim for the possibility of them being functional on a reduced quantity of drugs. Locking up addicts (unless they've commited another crime) serves no purpose. BUT I am in favour of Harper building bunkers to house the pushers and importers for a very long period of time. When the "shooting gallery" first opened I was dead against it because it condones the act (and I'm still having a hard time with that part) On the realistic side we DO have to do whatever is necessary to reduce healthcare costs and reduce unnecessary illness and make the community safer and more attractive."Heroin addicts are going to get Heroin. There is nothing you or anyone else is going to do about that. Nothing. You really need to understand that part first before you can manage to understand harm reduction. Heroin is physically addictive. That means that you just don't stop using it without causing some problems."
So what you are saying is there are no ex heroine users- I call bullsh*t- there was a guy speaking on C.K.N.W. years ago who had been a heroine addict for something like 20 years and finally just got tired of the whole scenario and quit...........cold turkey. (But that's not surprising as a lot of your rantings are bullsh*t) :lol:
Those folks that possess, use and possible traffik the drugs within the walls of Insite....
You do understand that they are illegal, right?
That's a moot point. The cops aren't allowed to enter Insite for the purpose of apprehending people that possess these drugs.
But not within the walls if Insite. Insite is it's own little embassy where there is full addict immunity, but that doesn't change the fact that the substance(s) are still highly illegal.
He does face that potential and to my knowledge, there is no federally sponsored facility wherein he can smoke pot... Talk about hypocrisy, it's a drug right? How is a pot smoker not an addict and therefore afforded all of the rights and benefits of heroin users?
... Great, so are you making a big deal about how Insite reduces the occurance of HIV? The only way that would be remotely possible is if the addicts only used drugs at Insite and also didn't engage in any other high risk activities.
... And yet the parks and public places all around Hastings are littered with needles, condoms and other paraphernalia... So basically, we can say that Insite, as a facility, is nice and clean and free of sharps... That doesn't do a whole lot for the neighboring communities, but at least Insite is safe.
At this point, your logic acts only to enable to addicts.... I think that we all can agree that this is not a solution.
At some point, we all have to assume personal responsibility for our individual decisions. While cutting funding to this demographic is regrettable, there is also
Which is why I find the suggestion that Insite can assist in the quitting process highly misleading.
I find this assumption that doing something 'illegal' must be followed by 'punishment' to be kind of infantile.
These people need to be healed not punished even if what they do is against the law.
What I find kinda funny with the law and order types is that there is no way to get through the day without breaking some law or other. There are just so many laws on the books that it is impossible to not break at least one a day and probably many more. So, condemning others is just a form of deflecting guilt away from oneself.
Three points 1. Unforgiven, you should tone it down - your credibility evaporated years ago. :lol: 2. No use arresting an addict for merely being an addict, if he steals arrest and deal harshly with him. 3. Start shooting the traffickers.
If you have some information about drug trafficking within Insite, you should make a complaint to the police in the division Insite is located. Of course everyone knows you're blowing smoke so big deal. Heroin is still illegal regardless of the existence of Insite.
Of course they are illegal. No one at any point said they weren't. Well except for you but your misguided. lol
No it's not. In Canada we have laws and even the police have to abide them. They can simply store Insite, arrest people and lay all kinds of charges, but everyone knows those charges will get thrown out of court because the police have to abide the law. Search warrants must be in place for the police to enter Insite. Just like any other place. But then what would be the point of cleaning up East Hastings if it's just going to be a matter of putting drug addicts in the revolving door system that after costing ten or twenty grand the addict is released back in East Hastings without support and returns to injecting drugs. I suppose the circular thinking appeals to you but it doesn't work. You should just accept that smarter people than you understand that and have taken measures to reduce the problems in the area.
Insite has the same rules as everyone else. I think that it bothers you that something that works so well simply bothers you. I bet you privately loath lottery winners too just because they got something and you didn't.
Bah you can smoke Cannabis any where and as long as you're not in anyone face about it, no one gives a damn. There are many many cafe now that are Cannabis friendly. They get the same tax breaks as any other small business. To far beyond your limited abilities to recognize that?
That's how it is for many people. Deal with it.
Less than before. If you legalized prostitution and opened a red light district then there wouldn't be condoms littering any where. But then that would mean that you love prostitution and that you want to push all the children into prostitution cause that's what you like. Never mind that prostitutes get taken out to pig farms and slaughtered because there is no regulation what so ever in a business that has been going on since we've been around.
Your prohibition position is stupid, doesn't work and harms people.
You have at this point stopped making sense. You need to calm down, think about what you want to say and then take your time to type it out.
So you, in your ever short sighted and poorly thought out way, think a drug addict should take responsibility for themselves? Do you even know what the fu ck we're talking about in this thread? You should take responsibility for saying something that stupid on a forum and turn off your computer.
Well you're an idiot and Insite doesn't need you. They do a better job at harm reduction than they would with your help so, for all the IV drug addicts, people who work and support Insite, and the general population, go **** yourself.
No wonder cops kick people in the face out west.
People who use Insite! HELLO!
It was a hypothetical question to demonstrate that the PD doesn't even have the authority to do that.
People get arrested everyday LEGITIMATELY, therefore no reason to bark. But if someone using Insite was arrested at their facility, then obviously bleeding heart assholes like the ones at the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association would be on the news crying foul. Would they not?
I swear I'm quitting.
There is so much more we can do rather than watching and enabling these people destroy their lives. Injecting drugs to self medicate doesn't solve their problem in the least, in fact it makes it worse because the longer you addicting the more damage you do to yourself and the harder it is to quit.
Sorry, Alley, but you really don't know what you are talking about. Probably 80 - 90% of users are people who hold good paying jobs. The problem with East Hastings is that those people are poor or mentally ill. They spend their food money on drugs and are malnourished, that is why they look so run down. Those with money are not malnourished and can function fairly well at their jobs and in society. You couldn't tell by looking at them that they were even high. A lot f junkies are professional people like lawyers, doctors and judges. The junkies down on Hastings are not your average user.People who use Insite! HELLO!
It was a hypothetical question to demonstrate that the PD doesn't even have the authority to do that.
People get arrested everyday LEGITIMATELY, therefore no reason to bark. But if someone using Insite was arrested at their facility, then obviously bleeding heart assholes like the ones at the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association would be on the news crying foul. Would they not?
I swear I'm quitting.
There is so much more we can do rather than watching and enabling these people destroy their lives. Injecting drugs to self medicate doesn't solve their problem in the least, in fact it makes it worse because the longer you addicting the more damage you do to yourself and the harder it is to quit.
Also, if poppy production has taken a quantum leap since our invasion, where do you think all this smack is coming from and who do you think is importing and supplying the pushers?
Again, we're not talking about anybody other than the people who use Insite. Functionally heroin users who hold jobs and shoot up at home are a completely different issue. What we do know is that this particular segment of the population will end up poverty stricken like the folks on East Hastings if they never receive help. Again though, different issue.
The CIA?
Maybe we should utilize more resources to catch this stuff at the border, in cargo containers etc.
and slow down legitimate commerce so we can minutely increase the amount of drugs seized? Can't search every single vehicle or ship entering Canada
Much of it comes in diplomatic pouches, immune from inspection. Like the Brits before them, the US controls the world drug trade and we are complicit with our involvement in Afghanistan.