US Government is Closed!

Goober

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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?hp
WASHINGTON — Shortly after President Obama started his second term, a loose-knit coalition of conservative activists led by former Attorney General Edwin Meese III gathered in the capital to plot strategy. Their push to repeal Mr. Obama’s health care law was going nowhere, and they desperately needed a new plan.

To many Americans, the shutdown came out of nowhere. But interviews with a wide array of conservatives show that the confrontation that precipitated the crisis was the outgrowth of a long-running effort to undo the law, the Affordable Care Act, since its passage in 2010 — waged by a galaxy of conservative groups with more money, organized tactics and interconnections than is commonly known.

With polls showing Americans deeply divided over the law, conservatives believe that the public is behind them. Although the law’s opponents say that shutting down the government was not their objective, the activists anticipated that a shutdown could occur — and worked with members of the Tea Party caucus in Congress who were excited about drawing a red line against a law they despise.

Coalition Letter: Congress Must Honor Sequester Savings and Defund ObamaCare Before It Is Too Late | FreedomWorks
FreedomWorks has signed on to the following Memo to the Movement by the Conservative Action Project:

Current Event:

The current continuing resolution (CR) funding the government expires on March 27, setting up an opportunity for Congress and President Obama to honor the bi-partisan sequester savings already agreed upon. It also presents an opportunity to achieve even more savings by defunding and stopping the implementation of Obamacare, which the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) recently reported will force 7 million Americans out of their existing health insurance.

Action:

Conservatives cannot support a CR that is above the sequester level of $974 billion annually. While many conservatives would prefer reprogramming defense cuts to other areas of discretionary spending (dollar for dollar cuts in the same year), the current sequester savings are better than none at all.

Conservatives should not approve a CR unless it defunds Obamacare. This includes Obamacare’s unworkable exchanges, unsustainable Medicaid expansion, and attack on life and religious liberty.

A mere “date-change CR” is unacceptable. Although the Obama administration and others will argue the CR is not the appropriate legislative vehicle to defund Obamacare, it is easily done through a series of appropriation riders. Because the CR represents one of the best vehicles possible to delay the implementation of Obamacare, it must not be used to bargain on the upcoming sequester.

Issue in Brief:
On October 1, 2013, open enrollment begins for the federally backed health care exchanges. On January 1, 2014, new money from Washington will begin flowing to states and individuals, all but ensuring that these new entitlements will become a permanent fixture of life in America. The window of opportunity to stop the implementation of these massive new subsidies is closing.
Although many of Obamacare's provisions are now the law of the land, many of the law's most damaging and irreversible provisions do not take effect until 2014.

Once implemented, the new spending contained within Obamacare, primarily the Medicaid expansion and exchange subsidies, will cost taxpayers more than $1.6 trillion over the next decade, according to the latest CBO estimates. Given the history of federal entitlement programs and the back-loaded nature of Obamacare spending, some estimate the full implementation cost could reach $2.6 trillion over ten years. It will increase the federal government's health spending by 15 percent.

The issue is far from settled in the states, which are tasked with either implementing the wide-ranging mandates and invasive requirements put forth by Obamacare, or deferring such choices to the bureaucrats in Washington.

The fractured opinion amongst the states is one reason the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) has continually pushed back the deadline for states to make a decision on the exchanges and Medicaid expansion.

The invasive elements of Obamacare are not set in stone; in fact, elements of the law are already under assault from Republicans and Democrats alike. The CLASS Act was repealed and there is bipartisan support for eliminating the devastating Medical Device Tax.

Blueprint to Defunding Obamacare
 

Cobalt_Kid

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So Obamacare isn't perfect, what was having close to 50 million people without health coverage, many nations would consider that a disgrace and possibly a disaster. And claiming that they had Medicaid and other programs is BS, you have to be pretty much destitute to qualify, is the answer really to force millions of Americans into poverty so they can get healthcare.

It's no secret that a tiny minority of Americans have almost completely taken over control of government in the country mostly through the use of massive amounts of funding for successful election campaigns and they give no evidence at all of caring about the interests of their fellow Americans, the subprime scandal and the loss of home for millions of Americans is fairly stark evidence of this. In the light of this it's amazing that Obama got any health reform through and those that are more than satisfied with treating their fellow citizens as de-facto slaves are doing what they can to try to turn what they see as a dangerous tide.

It's sad that broad-based representation is a fading light in the country that is supposed to be based on freedom. And if you don't have your health then it's pretty hard to count yourself as being free.
 

Goober

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So Obamacare isn't perfect, what was having close to 50 million people without health coverage, many nations would consider that a disgrace and possibly a disaster. And claiming that they had Medicaid and other programs is BS, you have to be pretty much destitute to qualify, is the answer really to force millions of Americans into poverty so they can get healthcare.

It's no secret that a tiny minority of Americans have almost completely taken over control of government in the country mostly through the use of massive amounts of funding for successful election campaigns and they give no evidence at all of caring about the interests of their fellow Americans, the subprime scandal and the loss of home for millions of Americans is fairly stark evidence of this. In the light of this it's amazing that Obama got any health reform through and those that are more than satisfied with treating their fellow citizens as de-facto slaves are doing what they can to try to turn what they see as a dangerous tide.

It's sad that broad-based representation is a fading light in the country that is supposed to be based on freedom. And if you don't have your health then it's pretty hard to count yourself as being free.

The 50 million is not accurate.
Obama is on a spending spree and has no plan to decrease spending.
Guess what happens.
ObamaCare has increased the use of part time workers- those that were over the, 30 hrs or so had their hours reduced so business would ot incur costs.

Care to list what Obama is willing to cut.
 

PoliticalNick

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Mar 8, 2011
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The 50 million is not accurate.
No, it's around 45 million. That is soooo much better than 50 million.
Obama is on a spending spree and has no plan to decrease spending.
But we will just forget about a trillion bucks to the bankers and another couple of trillion on a couple of illegal wars from the republicans. :roll:
ObamaCare has increased the use of part time workers- those that were over the, 30 hrs or so had their hours reduced so business would ot incur costs.
Well Goobs, this actually says a hell of a lot more about the state of your society and what is acceptable business practices in the US than it does about Obama. He is trying to ensure a large group of americans that can't afford healthcare can get it. If businesses are that despicable they will cut hours and screw over their employees just to save a few bucks then they really deserve to be out out of business. There are good reasons I don't shop at home depot or wal-mart and the like and it is mainly because they f*ck over their staff.
Care to list what Obama is willing to cut.
I wish he would cut corporate welfare to any business that cuts the hours of just one employee in order to get out of providing health insurance.
 

Goober

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No, it's around 45 million. That is soooo much better than 50 million.

As to the 45 M - Numbers are not accurate.

But we will just forget about a trillion bucks to the bankers and another couple of trillion on a couple of illegal wars from the republicans. :roll:
Past, that is the past.
Well Goobs, this actually says a hell of a lot more about the state of your society and what is acceptable business practices in the US than it does about Obama. He is trying to ensure a large group of americans that can't afford healthcare can get it. If businesses are that despicable they will cut hours and screw over their employees just to save a few bucks then they really deserve to be out out of business. There are good reasons I don't shop at home depot or wal-mart and the like and it is mainly because they f*ck over their staff.

Same thing in Canada for PT- Look at Superstore, they went on strike in AB today.

Any luck on what Obama is willing to cut. Aside from raising taxes.
 

PoliticalNick

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As to the 45 M - Numbers are not accurate.
So what are the numbers cause every source on the web says 45 million

Past, that is the past.
It accounts for about 17.5% of your national debt in 8 years of G W Bush. Hardly chump change.

Same thing in Canada for PT- Look at Superstore, they went on strike in AB today.
I'm glad they did. I don't shop there just for those reasons.

Any luck on what Obama is willing to cut. Aside from raising taxes.
His hair?
 

Goober

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PoliticalNick

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Being uninsured is not the same as being unable to access healthcare.

As has been pointed-out on a number of occasions, Medicare and Medicaid fill in for people with no private insurance.

Medicare is only for those over 65. Medicaid is only for those who receive assistance from the govt (on welfare). Where the large gap occurs are those that work but do not earn enough to afford their required bills (housing, power, food) and a health insurance plan. In Canada provincial healthcare sets your premiums based upon your income so those 'working poor' can still have coverage equal to everyone else. In the US these people cannot afford insurance so are limited to county hospitals and some charity walk-in clinics. Sometimes this access is hours away. To a family with no extra income and little spare time it can be almost impossible to get to a doctor. Some will go wait in the ER at a county hospital for 8, 10, 12 hours because their small child has an ear infection and then can only treat it with medication given by the hospital because they cannot afford to fill the prescription and still feed their other kid that week.

Healthcare is a big issue in the US. You can try to gloss it over and make light of it from now till the next blue moon but the problem remains the same. For what is supposed to be one of the greatest countries in the world their social programs, especially some form of universal access to adequate healthcare, falls far short of even mediocre in reality rates somewhere around atrocious!
 

PoliticalNick

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So what? He'll never catch up to Reagan, Bush 1 and dubya.
Republican, Democrat....it don't matter, they all run up the debt. Given the fact that none of them can run a balanced budget let alone a surplus and they are borrowing money just to pay the interest on the current debt the death spiral is way to far advanced to ever stop. Even if they could get to a surplus of $50 billion/yr and put it all on the principle of the national debt it would take 350+ years to pay it off. I mean it is just so ridiculous that anyone complaining about a few billion here or there should give their head a shake. The US is in an impossible position financially and should just start handing out million dollar checks and Ferraris for how much difference it would make to their debt and ability to pay it off.
 

tober

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Republican, Democrat....it don't matter, they all run up the debt. Given the fact that none of them can run a balanced budget let alone a surplus and they are borrowing money just to pay the interest on the current debt the death spiral is way to far advanced to ever stop. Even if they could get to a surplus of $50 billion/yr and put it all on the principle of the national debt it would take 350+ years to pay it off. I mean it is just so ridiculous that anyone complaining about a few billion here or there should give their head a shake. The US is in an impossible position financially and should just start handing out million dollar checks and Ferraris for how much difference it would make to their debt and ability to pay it off.

China owns a lot of the US debt. To the extent that it gives them control and they try to exercise it, does war seem a likely inevitability to you? In Gwyn Dyer's book War he posits that the economic collapse of a major power is what causes major-power wars. Other powers move in to scavenge the remains and a spark sets it off. That didn't happen when the USSR collapsed because everybody worked to make sure it didn't. Will America act that responsibly when its turn comes to tug the forelock, or will it prefer to drag the rest of the world into a nuclear holocaust? Whattya think?
 

Colpy

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So what? He'll never catch up to Reagan, Bush 1 and dubya.

You should REALLY check your facts.

National Debt by Year

Between 2000 and 2008, "Dubya" increased the debt from 5.67 Trillion to 10.025 Trillion............4.355 Trillion in EIGHT years.

Between 2008 and 2012. Obama increased the debt from 10.025 Trillion to 16.356 Trillion......6.331 Trillion in FOUR years.
 

PoliticalNick

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China owns a lot of the US debt. To the extent that it gives them control and they try to exercise it, does war seem a likely inevitability to you? In Gwyn Dyer's book War he posits that the economic collapse of a major power is what causes major-power wars. Other powers move in to scavenge the remains and a spark sets it off. That didn't happen when the USSR collapsed because everybody worked to make sure it didn't. Will America act that responsibly when its turn comes to tug the forelock, or will it prefer to drag the rest of the world into a nuclear holocaust? Whattya think?

I think when they finally default they will declare they are not paying anything, withdraw into their own borders, institute an Orwellian police state and dare anyone to come and try to have a war with them. But that is just me guessing.
 

Sons of Liberty

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You guys really need to do your research and stop listening to all the headlines. I'm near 50 years old this year and you have any idea how many times I have heard we're going down by the nose, XXXX country has a big portion of our debt, blah blah blah.

You know why doomsday never hits us? Because its only doomsday to those that don't do their research.
 

PoliticalNick

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You guys really need to do your research and stop listening to all the headlines. I'm near 50 years old this year and you have any idea how many times I have heard we're going down by the nose, XXXX country has a big portion of our debt, blah blah blah.

You know why doomsday never hits us? Because its only doomsday to those that don't do their research.

So you are about my age and a bit younher than the average on here.

Doomsday never comes because you guys just pass another spending measure, issue a crapload more bonds to the fed for less than you redeem them for, and go further into debt. What a great way to stop a national debt crisis. Just keep increasing the national debt. :roll:
 

gopher

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Listen *******, anyone can manipulate statistics and reports to suit their political purposes, the fact remains those without proper coverage (poor and lower middle class) do so because their respective states have opted out of programs (in all six I believe) which by the way constitute half of all uninsured in the U.S. They elect their own moron politicians, they can wallow in them.



That's horseshït and you know it dumbfück.

There are thousands of homeless people and impoverished veterans who don't have insurance despite the fact that their states have insurance plans. As I mentioned on another thread, I used to pass right by the Dorothy Day Center in down town St Paul to get to work every day and the lines for health care would go around the block:






If we had the same universal health care that other countries have we wouldn't have these problems that exist in every state. Some people are just so fücken stupid and live in such neurotic denial that it's unreal.

Republicans blaming Obama for shut down so why don’t they giveup their fight and let America open




RepubliCONs are blaming Obama but the majority of Americans are blaming the CONs.

 

taxslave

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The cons are fighting for liberty not keep non-essential gubmint funded.[/FONT]

Then why haven't they shut dow the army and homeland security. Neither one of them is anywhere near as important as a healthy population.

Wally I forgot to add, if the extreme right had even the slightest interest in liberty they would demand that pot be made legal and everyone currently in jail for possession be imediately released and everyone ever convicted of possession be given an immediate pardon.
 

gopher

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Then why haven't they shut dow the army and homeland security. Neither one of them is anywhere near as important as a healthy population.

Wally I forgot to add, if the extreme right had even the slightest interest in liberty they would demand that pot be made legal and everyone currently in jail for possession be imediately released and everyone ever convicted of possession be given an immediate pardon.




And they would demand that the Pentagon be dissolved just like our Founding Fathers did. But that would entail having principle which is something they know nothing about.