US Government is Closed!

[Sons of Liberty]

I worked in the tax field long enough to see dozens of cases where people became bankrupt for lack of adequate insurance. This has been discussed enough times on this forum and if you got your head out of your butt you would have known this by now.

Listen *******, anyone can manipulate statistics and reports to suit their political purposes, the fact remains those without proper coverage (poor and lower middle class) do so because their respective states have opted out of programs (in all six I believe) which by the way constitute half of all uninsured in the U.S. They elect their own moron politicians, they can wallow in them.

 

[PoliticalNick]

Listen *******, anyone can manipulate statistics and reports to suit their political purposes, the fact remains those without proper coverage (poor and lower middle class) do so because their respective states have opted out of programs (in all six I believe) which by the way constitute half of all uninsured in the U.S. They elect their own moron politicians, they can wallow in them.

What makes you so certain that the poor elected those politicians who made the decisions. Maybe some fought against it but were out-voted in state legislature. You obviously don't know sh*t about your own system or politics in general or you are just being an a$$hole.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Listen *******, anyone can manipulate statistics and reports to suit their political purposes, the fact remains those without proper coverage (poor and lower middle class) do so because their respective states have opted out of programs (in all six I believe) which by the way constitute half of all uninsured in the U.S. They elect their own moron politicians, they can wallow in them.

The fact remains? How do you know it's fact? Because of statistics and reports which you've just said are manipulated for political purposes?

No, don't tell me, let me guess. Statistics and reports that agree with youir political opinions are the unvarnished truth, untouched by evil deceiving deceivers, and statistics and reports that don't agree with your political opinions are the work of evil deceiving deceivers and Kenyan Muslim Socialists.

Right?

 

[Andem]

The Tea Party is just one more scam coming from the same sector of US society that brought the war in Iraq and economic meltdown in 2008. And they don't care how much damage they do to get their way, that much should be more than obvious by now.

I thought the Tea Party was a group which wanted to retain the U.S. constitution and allow free market to flourish. I fail to see how the core components of that reflect a scam, unless you believe in illegal foreign wars.

On the topic of Obamacare. Many believe that the system is unconstitutional. How can a free market society force its citizens to purchase a product, namely private medical insurance? That's exactly the real-world examples I learned of recently during a visit to that country.

Many believe that the Affordable Care Act is actually some type of universal healthcare: It is not. It's higher costs for everybody, especially small business and individuals.

I can't quote anything at the moment, but last time I looked, the majority of the US population did not support the introduction of Obamacare as it is, so I can understand the House of Representatives has blocked the government from continuing against the will of the people.

 

[Walter]

Where's sense of crisis in a 17 percent government shutdown? | WashingtonExaminer.com

 

[PoliticalNick]

I thought the Tea Party was a group which wanted to retain the U.S. constitution and allow free market to flourish. I fail to see how the core components of that reflect a scam, unless you believe in illegal foreign wars.

On the topic of Obamacare. Many believe that the system is unconstitutional. How can a free market society force its citizens to purchase a product, namely private medical insurance? That's exactly the real-world examples I learned of recently during a visit to that country.

Many believe that the Affordable Care Act is actually some type of universal healthcare: It is not. It's higher costs for everybody, especially small business and individuals.

I can't quote anything at the moment, but last time I looked, the majority of the US population did not support the introduction of Obamacare as it is, so I can understand the House of Representatives has blocked the government from continuing against the will of the people.

Unfortunately whatever the will of the people right now in regard to the ACA it is a law. It passed both houses and was signed by the POTUS.

Now the correct way to repeal or amend that law is to present a new bill, debate it and vote on it in both houses and if it passes congress and the senate it will go to the Pres for his signature or a veto.

What you don't do is attach that change to the federal budget bill which is required to pay federal employees and certain appropriations and of course the interest on your $17 trillion debt.

The interesting fact I came up with yesterday was the salary of all the furloughed workers amounts to about $48 billion/yr, if that amount was paid directly on the debt each year it would take 354 years to pay off the principle. That should be a stunning concern to all US citizens and those in govt especially since they continue to run a deficit each year no matter which party is in power.

 

[Kreskin]

I thought the Tea Party was a group which wanted to retain the U.S. constitution and allow free market to flourish. I fail to see how the core components of that reflect a scam, unless you believe in illegal foreign wars.

On the topic of Obamacare. Many believe that the system is unconstitutional. How can a free market society force its citizens to purchase a product, namely private medical insurance? That's exactly the real-world examples I learned of recently during a visit to that country.

Many believe that the Affordable Care Act is actually some type of universal healthcare: It is not. It's higher costs for everybody, especially small business and individuals.

I can't quote anything at the moment, but last time I looked, the majority of the US population did not support the introduction of Obamacare as it is, so I can understand the House of Representatives has blocked the government from continuing against the will of the people.

Nothing unusual about having to buy insurance. In Canada you have to purchase Provincial coverage.

 

[Andem]

Unfortunately whatever the will of the people right now in regard to the ACA it is a law. It passed both houses and was signed by the POTUS.

Any law could theoretically exist. That doesn't mean it is constitutional, making it thus an invalid and non-binding law.

Nothing unusual about having to buy insurance. In Canada you have to purchase Provincial coverage.

You can't compare the US system to the Canadian system. It's an apples-to-oranges comparison.

In Canada, health insurance is almost completely public and built into the tax system. That is the will of the Canadian demos and you would be very hard pressed to find an [even] sizable minority against that system. In the United States, the government is forcing the people to purchase private insurance... meanwhile creating even more bureaucracy in an ever-growing civil service.

We (as Canadians) can always bash the US-style system of healthcare, but the services people actually receive on either side of the border are atrocious. We can thank corrupt government and crony capitalism for all of that. Making the system worse in the US through so-called "affordable care" won't change a thing except making the poor poorer and the rich richer, thus shrinking the middle class (in the end.)

 

[PoliticalNick]

Any law could theoretically exist. That doesn't mean it is constitutional, making it thus an invalid and non-binding law.

In case you missed it it got past the US Supreme Court too, that challenge has past. It is quite constitutional (as much as any other legislation) and is very much binding.

What I see is that once it gets into full swing and 45 million people that never had healthcare suddenly have it and can afford it there won't be a popular consensus to go back. The Reps see this as their last shot to make life easier & cheaper for businesses.

Me, I say tough titties to corporations and businesses, I would have made it so they had to insure all employees all the time regardless.

 

[Goober]

In case you missed it it got past the US Supreme Court too, that challenge has past. It is quite constitutional (as much as any other legislation) and is very much binding.

What I see is that once it gets into full swing and 45 million people that never had healthcare suddenly have it and can afford it there won't be a popular consensus to go back. The Reps see this as their last shot to make life easier & cheaper for businesses.

Me, I say tough titties to corporations and businesses, I would have made it so they had to insure all employees all the time regardless.

The swing vote on the decision was a Conservative.
He ruled that it fell under commerce and was legal.
As to ObamaCare, it is filled with problems. You cannot roll out something so huge and not expect that.
Aside from the Republicans hating OC- The other reason is that when people register, they can also register to vote.
That demographic is a huge win for Democrats.

Update
A blink or an offer to negotiate.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/u-s-government-shutdown-pentagon-workers-ordered-back-to-jobs-1.1913914

 

[Andem]

In case you missed it it got past the US Supreme Court too, that challenge has past. It is quite constitutional (as much as any other legislation) and is very much binding.

Of course it did. Do you know what the court actually ruled on? I'm sure if you knew, you would realize that it doesn't help your argument. No, it wasn't the constitutional validity of Obamacare per se. It was on the argument over the ability of the federal government to interfere with commerce. Remember, an argument isn't valid just because it came from CNN, CBC or (god forbid) Wikipedia. A 5-4 ruling by justices with questionable allegiances isn't exactly a sweeping victory, I might add.

What I see is that once it gets into full swing and 45 million people that never had healthcare suddenly have it and can afford it there won't be a popular consensus to go back. The Reps see this as their last shot to make life easier & cheaper for businesses.

You're living in a dream. As I said before, Obamacare is not universal access. Your argument is irrelevant and probably rather insulting to the poor sods having to pay more for less.

Me, I say tough titties to corporations and businesses, I would have made it so they had to insure all employees all the time regardless.

That quote shows that you've very misinformed and/or ignorant. First, corporations are entities which are pretty much non-entities. They are people, but they aren't. Non-corporate businesses on the other hand are real people who are largely accountable for their activities.

Where is this money for healthcare for "45 million" supposed to come from? Is it growing on orange trees in Florida? Is it from the pockets of the political class whose bullshizzism propaganda you're spewing? Perhaps the corrupt pharmaceutical companies or overpaid (US) M.D.s who perform the work. Perhaps you've invented nuclear money. I can't help you out there.

 

[tober]

On the topic of Obamacare. Many believe that the system is unconstitutional. How can a free market society force its citizens to purchase a product, namely private medical insurance?

The American people elected Obama and his legislation has survived SCOTUS challenge. It is law. For the extreme right to ignore the result of a national election and the highest court in America and try to blackmail the nation into changing duly made law should be punished. Obviously the US still has not matured as a democracy.

 

[Goober]

The American people elected Obama and his legislation has survived SCOTUS challenge. It is law. For the extreme right to ignore the result of a national election and the highest court in America and try to blackmail the nation into changing duly made law should be punished. Obviously the US still has not matured as a democracy.

And laws passed can be changed or repealed.
That said, ObamaCare has a ton of problems.
Companies are reducing hours worked so they can stay below the min required for providing health care.
As to paying for it, the US, Obama is all for increasing revenues but no cuts.
Now recall 300 K votes gave him that landslide. 300 K out of how many.

 

[B00Mer]

The American people elected Obama and his legislation has survived SCOTUS challenge. It is law. For the extreme right to ignore the result of a national election and the highest court in America and try to blackmail the nation into changing duly made law should be punished. Obviously the US still has not matured as a democracy.

Both parties in the Senate and the House of Representatives are elect leaders, both representatives and senators are chosen through direct election in their districts.

So the House of Representatives is doing what it was elected for, to "BALANCE" out the government from making or enacting bad laws..

It's the Checks and Balance of a very amazing and brilliant democracy that the Founding Fathers envisioned in 1787.

House and Senate – Why We Have a House and a Senate

 

[Sons of Liberty]

What makes you so certain that the poor elected those politicians who made the decisions. Maybe some fought against it but were out-voted in state legislature. You obviously don't know sh*t about your own system or politics in general or you are just being an a$$hole.

Actually it is you that knows squat about the US political system, as you have repeatedly demonstrated, so I would quit while you're ahead.

 

[PoliticalNick]

Really, when it would take you 350 years to pay of your debt at 50 billion a year who cares anymore....just write another rubber check. Mortgage up another six or seven generations. It don't really matter anymore. They can never pay off their debt even if they tried because of the interest attached at the creation of their money. Nobody seems to get it with these fiscal arguments. They are so far in debt and in a system that makes it impossible to ever get out of debt so why care. Just give everyone universal healthcare and a cadillac or two and promise to pay it back in 400 or 500 years.

Actually it is you that knows squat about the US political system, as you have repeatedly demonstrated, so I would quit while you're ahead.

The standard argument of someone who just got fed their a$$hole. ;-)

 

[Kreskin]

Andem, in Canada you have to buy insurance. But you can only buy it from one source.

 

[B00Mer]

Andem, in Canada you have to buy insurance. But you can only buy it from one source.

Eh? What Province do you live in.. here in Alberta, I don't have to buy squat.. it's free.. Every Resident get's it for FREE.

Just keep filling your fuel tanks folks..

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=63835597-76da-4add-9d3e-c10510258254

 

[Andem]

Andem, in Canada you have to buy insurance. But you can only buy it from one source.

My words. I find that abhorrent, but it is the will of the people. Of course, that one source is the most inefficient spender of money ever to have existed, but I digress.

We have that system and it's supported by the majority. On topic: The affordable care act is not.

 

[Sons of Liberty]

Really, when it would take you 350 years to pay of your debt at 50 billion a year who cares anymore....just write another rubber check. Mortgage up another six or seven generations. It don't really matter anymore. They can never pay off their debt even if they tried because of the interest attached at the creation of their money. Nobody seems to get it with these fiscal arguments. They are so far in debt and in a system that makes it impossible to ever get out of debt so why care. Just give everyone universal healthcare and a cadillac or two and promise to pay it back in 400 or 500 years.



The standard argument of someone who just got fed their a$$hole. ;-)

PoliticalNick, you seem rather smart from where I sit, but your comments at times amaze me. You do not know anything about the US debt, nothing, nada. Eighty percent of our debt can be wiped away with a blink of any eye, get real.