UN group wants Europe's 'baby boxes' banned

[gerryh]

I support the right of everyone to choose... up to the point where that choice affects others.

and a womans right to kill her baby ( abortion, for the terminally stupid) doesn't effect anyone...right? Or is it, it doesn't effect anyone that can vote.... or complain. :roll:

Really?

If I lit the fuse on your tampon, I apologize. Figured I'd step up first. Next?

whatever Ron.... if making light of an issue that effects the health and welfare of our most innocent and helpless members of society is what floats your boat. You go for it.

and you know what your implied threat means to me.

 

[Goober]

Obviously abortion is an important issue for gerryH.

I appreciate humor too, especially when the subject is heavy.

I am glad gerryH raised the topic and I believe I agree with him on this topic. Baby boxes are yet another reasonable, humane choice for a woman when faced with an unwanted pregnancy. Taking away the boxes would limit a woman's possible choices.

I disagree with him regarding abortion for the same reason why I agree with him regarding baby boxes. Taking away safe doctor assisted abortions would also limit choice.

I support the right of everyone to choose... up to the point where that choice affects others.

A huge difference between myself and many who oppose abortion under all conditions is that they believe that a fetus is entitled to full human rights. I believe in a graduated increase in rights starting with what we can do with sperm and egg before conception, up until you get full rights (and responsibilities) as an adult. I support abortion as a reproductive choice under three months. From 3-6 months if the pregnancy is a health issue or the result of a crime. After 6 months the baby has the same rights as a new born. At 5 or 6 years a child can start to be be held responsible for their actions. At 16 they are fully responsible. By 19 they can use recreational drugs and make porn movies.

My point is, even people who oppose abortion, believe in a graduated system of rights and freedoms.

We have no abortion law in Canada-
Late term abortions - over 24 weeks - Legal
Sex selection- Legal
A Doctor may not know the reasons but that they occur is fact.

So are you for no abortion law. Yes- No

If so then read the SCoC decision on the case.

 

[taxslave]

I'm quite happy with the abortion laws the way they are right now. Helps keep the religious fanatics from imposing their view on other people and no one is forcing them to have abortions.

 

[gerryh]

I'm quite happy with the abortion laws the way they are right now. Helps keep the religious fanatics from imposing their view on other people and no one is forcing them to have abortions.

there are no "abortion laws" in Canada. They were struck down a number of years ago by the SCC and the governments since then have not had the balls to rectify it.

 

[taxslave]

there are no "abortion laws" in Canada. They were struck down a number of years ago by the SCC and the governments since then have not had the balls to rectify it.

Which is why I am perfectly happy with it the way it is. It is nobody's business except the woman involved.

 

[Goober]

Which is why I am perfectly happy with it the way it is. It is nobody's business except the woman involved.

And why we differ on this- late term pregnancies- over 24 weeks- sex selection- aborting a twin.
The problem is that many Canadians are not aware that these - mentioned above- are legal in Canada.
I believe in a womens right to choose but what is happening is beyond disgust in my opinion

 

[Cliffy]

As I said to a Catholic friend one time, "If you don't like abortions, don't have one. what other people do is none of your business."
A woman's decision to abort encompasses untold variables in her personal life and may cause all sorts of emotional trauma, as well. If you believe that God is the final judge, then a woman's decision is between her and her God. There is no justification for anybody else to interfere. If God really wanted that child to be born, he would have found a way to make it happen, or he is not omnipotent.

 

[eh1eh]

Religious people don't believe in other people's freedom only their own thoughts and beliefs.

 

[gerryh]

As I said to a Catholic friend one time, "If you don't like abortions, don't have one. what other people do is none of your business."
A woman's decision to abort encompasses untold variables in her personal life and may cause all sorts of emotional trauma, as well. If you believe that God is the final judge, then a woman's decision is between her and her God. There is no justification for anybody else to interfere. If God really wanted that child to be born, he would have found a way to make it happen, or he is not omnipotent.

I'm curious as to why YOU brought God into this. Especially since you've made it perfectly clear you don't believe. Is it a matter of you can't make an argument without bashing God? One trick pony?

 

[Cannuck]

As I said to a Catholic friend one time, "If you don't like abortions, don't have one. what other people do is none of your business."

So if you were living in Nazi Germany and the SS came to take your Jewish neighbor away, you would say "It's none of my business"?

 

[petros]

 

[Cliffy]

I'm curious as to why YOU brought God into this. Especially since you've made it perfectly clear you don't believe. Is it a matter of you can't make an argument without bashing God? One trick pony?

Where do you see me bashing god? I find it useful to use your beliefs (which I am familiar with, having been brought up a catholic) to show how your emotional response to abortion is unjustifiable.
I may not believe in the man made god as presented in the bible, but I do have a strong faith, as well as a belief in the Creator. I too have had personal revelations of a spiritual nature. Just because they don't agree with yours doesn't mean they are any less valid. It only proves to me that the spirit communicates to each individual in a way they can relate to. I would even go as far as saying that spirit communicates with atheists, only in scientific terms.

So if you were living in Nazi Germany and the SS came to take your Jewish neighbor away, you would say "It's none of my business"?

Straw man argument. I deal with situations that are within my personal realm of influence.

 

[Cannuck]

Straw man argument. I deal with situations that are within my personal realm of influence.

No, it's not a straw man argument. Pro-life people believe that life begins at conception and that a fetus is a human life. To suggest that the child (an innocent life) is none of their business is like suggesting that a Jew in Nazi Germany would be none of their business either.

 

[Cliffy]

No, it's not a straw man argument. Pro-life people believe that life begins at conception and that a fetus is a human life. To suggest that the child (an innocent life) is none of their business is like suggesting that a Jew in Nazi Germany would be none of their business either.

I believe that all life is sacred, not just human life. I don't want to stop people from killing other species or each other in general. If I am present when it is happening, I may or may not be moved to prevent it. But not being omnipotent, I cannot be in all places at all times. Most of life operates outside my field of influence, so I am not emotionally attached to what happens.

Pro-life people want to inflict their beliefs on others. They hold the sanctity of human life above all others and they think everybody should behave in a manor that reflects their beliefs.

I really don't care what anybody believes. It is their right. But I do take exception when they try to make others live by them. Like I said, if you don't like abortions, don't have one. I wasn't in Germany in the 1940s, so there is nothing I could do about it.

 

[Cannuck]

I wasn't in Germany in the 1940s, so there is nothing I could do about it.

A cop out. If a predator was taking a child on a street corner, you would do nothing?

 

[Cliffy]

A cop out. If a predator was taking a child on a street corner, you would do nothing?

If I'm present, then I would do everything in my power to prevent it. If a man is brutalizing his or someone else's dog (or any other animal) I would try to stop it. If a woman in Montreal is having an abortion and I am in BC, what do you expect me to do about it?

This has nothing to do with beliefs. It is human nature to react to situations where others are in danger. If you are a fireman like you say, you know how that works. But to sit around and decide what others are doing is wrong based on a belief system is not the same thing.

 

[Cannuck]

If I'm present, then I would do everything in my power to prevent it. If a man is brutalizing his or someone else's dog (or any other animal) I would try to stop it. If a woman in Montreal is having an abortion and I am in BC, what do you expect me to do about it?

If the woman in Montreal is killing a human being you would call the police, just like if you knew somebody was brutalizing a dog or molesting a child and you were not present to stop it. Or, maybe you wouldn't.

 

[DaSleeper]

 

[Cliffy]

I was thinking more like a solo circle jerk.

 

[Cannuck]

If the woman in Montreal is killing a human being you would call the police, just like if you knew somebody was brutalizing a dog or molesting a child and you were not present to stop it. Or, maybe you wouldn't.

The real question would be, is it self centered or selfish to only concern yourself with your immediate surroundings. I believe it is and I believe it is a copout to say that because I'm not in (insert place name) I'm not concerned about the humanity there.