Tories To Waste Billons On New Fighter Jets
- Thread starter dumpthemonarchy
- Start date
Would you believe I have ADHD?
If you think that was random...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwPas50dixA&feature=channel
If you think that was random...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwPas50dixA&feature=channel
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F-35B - Taking STOVL to a New Level
F-35B - Taking STOVL to a New Level - Videos - AircraftOwner Online
F-35B - Taking STOVL to a New Level - Videos - AircraftOwner Online
Here we go again!
Ignatieff doing a Chretien......
CBC News - Politics - Ignatieff vows to cancel F-35 jet deal
Ignatieff doing a Chretien......
CBC News - Politics - Ignatieff vows to cancel F-35 jet deal
Colpy I can't believe that you think, sixty five F-35s are what we need. I'm guessing that Harper has signed a deal
with such a penalty clause that we can't afford to get out of it.
I know it sounds impossible, but a single F-35 can take on 5-6 F-15's and unless something goes wrong will come out ahead. The F-15 become obsolete when just the mention of F-22 and F-35 were made.. It is only money, and well worth it compared to a pilots life.
If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!
So who is it that we are going to defend our country against again? Russia and Denmark are the only two that have expressed any issues over the "North" so we should be practical about it. Russia we do our turn with them every now and again but we aren't about to start a war with them under any circumstances. Any meaningful incursion into Canada is settled in the courts, not the battlefield. We wouldn't last long against Russia anyway so no matter what we do there, it's not a good reason to go into debt over.
So Denmark, a ha there is a nice scrap for us. I bet we could kick their ass too! But they don't want to invade Canada, they want to claim a barren wasteland that up until now has been frozen. Again, they just don't have enough people to actually attempt to take over Canada. So, we again turn to the court and settle our disputes.
What we do need to do though is rescue all the people who are going to be coming into our territorial waters for shipping and open up the frontier that is the North as climate change dictates. Policing the North West Passage, keeping those dang oil and mineral prospectors abiding the law on our land and of course building and supplying the
out posts as they develop into bases and jump off points for further northern development and research.
We aren't going to war here and if any Prime Minister wants to start that **** up, they can kiss their career good bye. We have the defend against terrorism, but jets aren't going to do that. We have to be able to move to and land on any given scrap of land that sticks out of the water in the north should the need present it self. Again, jets aren't going to do that. We have to be able to move fast and detect anything that comes within our air space or falls upon out land or slinks beneath the seas. Once detected we can use our military to defend our interests short of war.
So it seems to me that rather than attack jets or bombers we should be thinking of investing in our own development and rescue measures so that we can provide all the newly opened resources to the world. Step on up, and let Canada prosper.
So Denmark, a ha there is a nice scrap for us. I bet we could kick their ass too! But they don't want to invade Canada, they want to claim a barren wasteland that up until now has been frozen. Again, they just don't have enough people to actually attempt to take over Canada. So, we again turn to the court and settle our disputes.
What we do need to do though is rescue all the people who are going to be coming into our territorial waters for shipping and open up the frontier that is the North as climate change dictates. Policing the North West Passage, keeping those dang oil and mineral prospectors abiding the law on our land and of course building and supplying the
out posts as they develop into bases and jump off points for further northern development and research.
We aren't going to war here and if any Prime Minister wants to start that **** up, they can kiss their career good bye. We have the defend against terrorism, but jets aren't going to do that. We have to be able to move to and land on any given scrap of land that sticks out of the water in the north should the need present it self. Again, jets aren't going to do that. We have to be able to move fast and detect anything that comes within our air space or falls upon out land or slinks beneath the seas. Once detected we can use our military to defend our interests short of war.
So it seems to me that rather than attack jets or bombers we should be thinking of investing in our own development and rescue measures so that we can provide all the newly opened resources to the world. Step on up, and let Canada prosper.
The Tories are lackeys of the military-industrial complex and buy dumb jets. Does Harper know the Cold War is over?
What we need are patrol ships and helicopters for the North. Harper talks about the North but does nothing about it.
Canada’s $9-billion jet fighter deal raises questions - The Globe and Mail
Canada’s $9-billion jet fighter deal raises questions
A Canadian Forces pilot has his picture taken in front of a F-35 Strike Fighter mock-up before a news conference in Ottawa on July 16, 2010. THE CANADIAN PRESS
Critics ask whether such sophisticated and pricey planes are crucial to military needs
Campbell Clark and Steven Chase
Ottawa — From Saturday's Globe and Mail Published on Saturday, Jul. 17, 2010 12:00AM EDT Last updated on Saturday, Jul. 17, 2010 10:28AM EDT
The Harper government has committed to buying a fleet of $140-million-a-pop fighter jets at the outset of an era of austerity, sparking questions about whether post-Cold-War Canada still needs pricey cutting-edge airpower.
Marched in to a military band, Defence Minister Peter MacKay touted the new fleet of next-generation F-35s, fitted with stealth technology, state-of-the-art operating systems and super-secure communications, as the “best” that Canadian pilots need to defend the country’s sovereignty and fight in missions abroad.
But the price tag for 65 planes – $9-billion to buy them, and an estimated $16-billion when a maintenance contract is completed – has heightened questions about whether they are really crucial to Canada’s future military needs.
With no Soviet Union across the North Pole, critics say the Conservative government has yet to demonstrate a strategic need for fighters.
“There is a whole lot of bells and whistles on the F-35 that they don’t really need,” said Michael Wallace, a University of British Columbia defence and international relations professor. “It’s basically a Cold War upgrade, and the Cold War is over, so there’s nobody it’s really useful against.”
The F-35 Lightning II jets, developed by a cartel of nine nations led by the United States and including Canada, are the first “fifth-generation” fighter planes that U.S. allies can buy.
The announcement of one of the biggest military equipment purchases in recent Canadian history is symbolically at odds with the Conservatives’ planned five-year round of budget cutting to start next year.
Government ministers emphasized the potential economic benefits of the contract: By buying into a massive allied fighter program worth more than $400-billion, Ottawa enables Canadian companies to bid on subcontracts from manufacturer Lockheed Martin.
Controversially, the Harper government did not ask for other bids, saying Canada needs the same high-tech fighter that the United States and its allies will fly.
“There are a large number of our allies who are moving in the direction of purchasing this same aircraft,” Mr. MacKay said. “There is a need to be current, combat-capable and inter-operable.”
He outlined the general purpose for the fighters: to “defend the sovereignty” of Canadian airspace, remain a reliable North American defence partner for the United States and take part in international military operations. But he didn’t say what kind of threat Canada might be up against.
One Conservative said privately that the jets are in part a statement about protecting Canada’s Arctic sovereignty. And the United States might question Canada’s role in the NORAD alliance if it did not have modern fighters – the U.S. military is buying more than 2,000 F-35s.
There are other questions: Some military analysts wonder whether Canada will ever need fighter airpower in a conflict against an opposing air force. Fighters are less effective against the kind of insurgency Canadian troops are battling in Afghanistan, which some analysts believe will be the pattern of future conflicts.
Some argue that the F-35 is too much plane for Canada’s real needs. Michael Wallace, a University of British Columbia defence and international relations professor, said the life of the existing CF-18s, expected to wear out between 2017 and 2020, could be extended by replacing their airframes.
But other analysts insist that’s short-sighted: Canada needs a fast-flying interception plane to secure its airspace, and the F-35 is really the only option other than old technology. The only other real alternative – although too bold for Canada – would be to wait a few years for unmanned drone fighters to be feasible, he said.
Carleton University political scientist Elinor Sloan, a former Defence Department analyst, said fighters still play a fundamental role: preserving Canadian sovereignty by protecting its airspace from foreign incursions over the Arctic, or shooting down a hijacked plane.
In 2007, flush with money from high oil prices, Russia resumed regular air exercises in the name of protecting its own Arctic sovereignty.
“There's that North American air defence mission that continues on. It's arguably more important since 9/11,” Prof. Sloan said. “Also, there's an increased Russian bomber activity ... so that mission is coming back.”
Why do you use the word 'Tories' in the thread title when you know very well that they have a minority in Parliament and could never stand without support from outside their party? That being the case, wouldn't the phrase 'the government' have been more appropriate?
You never know who will invade you, it could come from the inside. Could happen tomorrow, next week, next year. You don't want to play catch up if and when it ever happens. Be prepared my friends.
But we also don't want our attempt at defending ourselves be our downfall owing to excessive expenditures leading to intolerable debt.
One solution I could see would be the pooling of resources. For example, why not create an international police force comprising a maximum of 100,000 well-trained and equipped men, all subject to international law. This would provide a few advantages. You yourself just said a threat could come from the inside. Well, hypothetically speaking, what would we do if it came from within the military itself, especially if among the higher ranks of the military. It's happened before in history. Remember the one who crossed the Rubicon?
Having an international police force would counterbalance the national police force and, should a nation wish to have one, the national military too. It could also supplement it.
For example, if Canada felt that this international police force, along with our national police force, sufficed to maintain our national security, then we could gradually eliminate the Canadian military, save money, and still have a larger force than we currently have at our disposal. This would allow us to have a sufficiently powerful force for our national defense while providing a valuable balance of power at a reasonable cost thus allowing us to defend our national sovereignty and economic sustainability at the same time rather than have to choose between one or the other.
The CF-18s have been long over due to be replaced, as with our navy copters. The Hornets should've never have been purchased in the first place, they're NAVY aircraft and don't have near the range to properly patrol a nation of Canada's size. It's pretty bad that Canadians demand so much from their Forces but then give them the middle finger when they (Forces) need their kit replaced or modernised.
Ya, well, if our government, a bunch of wannabe Yanks, would stop following you guys into all sorts of ill-planned and executed wars, we would not have to worry about being invaded. Still don't see anybody marching in here, unless of course, they are just passing through on their way to kick your asses. They wouldn't even consider that if you guys would stop interfering in other people's lives and trying to run the world.
You cannot hide all your life watching then complaining about everything wrong and do nothing. Time come out try and make a difference. Those Canadian solders that go fight somewhere in this world are doing something, you may not like it then do something better.
I am. I'm leaving them alone to work out their own problems. I know you think there are altruistic reasons for being there, but there ain't any. You can bet the farm, that all the reasons your government has told you why you are there is pure, unadulterated BS. Your soldiers and ours are sacrificing their lives for someone else's profit, nothing else.