Thomas Mulcair, being "Thomas Mulcair"....

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petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Re: Stéphane Dion criticizes Thomas Mulcair for East-West strategy

IF Mulcair offered up options to replace jobs and provincial incomes from resources or explained WTF 'sustainable oil" is maybe....just maybe he'd get some support in Western Canada. When you spew BS and try to stymie progress in the west, there is no chance in hell NDP will get the seats in the west back that they once held. He'll never be PM or even be the opposition next time around. Never ever. not in a million years.
 

captain morgan

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Re: Stéphane Dion criticizes Thomas Mulcair for East-West strategy


Study (with graphs and everything so it must be factual!)

Jack Mintz: No Dutch disease here



Then there are economists who point to the “Dutch disease,” whereby the booming resource economy is said to be crowding out the manufacturing industry. The term “disease” itself is pejorative, with the presumption that resource sectors are bad and the manufacturing sector is good. It is rooted in a 1977 Economist article on how Netherlands manufacturing suffered as a result of a 1959 discovery of a large natural gas field, which drove up the Dutch currency. Maybe Dutch manufacturing did decline, but one would be hard pressed to argue that the Netherlands has not been one of the exceptional European economies in the past half century.

While the “Dutch disease” argument has some relevance in that natural resource booms can push up a country’s exchange rate, thereby making other exporting industries less competitive,
it would also be the case with declining natural resource prices and falling exchange rates that exporting industries would grow while the resource-based economies would fall back.

As shown in the graphs, manufacturing in Ontario, industrial states and the United States in general has been on a steady decline for 35 years. In Ontario, manufacturing jobs as a share of total industrial employment has fallen from 23% in 1976 to 12% in 2011. In the U.S., manufacturing has declined from 22% in 1976 to 9% today. Today, even in Ontario, Michigan and Ohio, manufacturing is not that important as a source of employment.

Sure, there are some cyclical trends when manufacturing jobs rose in Ontario during the period of a low exchange rate. But the long-term trend in manufacturing decline dominates. Thus, the “Dutch disease” explains little. Canada, like the United States, has lost manufacturing jobs going elsewhere, especially low-wage economies, a historical trend that is typical of most industrialized economies.


Read more here and see, first hand, the graphs that lend factual credibility!

Jack Mintz: No Dutch disease here | FP Comment | Financial Post
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Re: Stéphane Dion criticizes Thomas Mulcair for East-West strategy

OooooOOOOOoooooo graaaaaaphs!

Hey! Don't **** up the BS with the truth!
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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Re: Stéphane Dion criticizes Thomas Mulcair for East-West strategy

The real problem here is that you subjectively interpret your messiah's words to fit into the narrow constructs that you believe are factual... Hence the perpetual references in the OPs of Study or Report; somehow you feel that the inclusion of those 2 words adds credibility to an otherwise ridiculous train of logic.

Nice... So basically, dutch disease can't be quantified.

Wrong on both accounts.

Mulcair's implication of the dutch disease is more than what has been empirically shown. It exists, but not to the same degree that he was implying. I based my opinion on the most recent reports from respected economic outlets.

And the quantifier is that 25 out of 80 manufacturing sites have been affected by dutch disease.
 

mentalfloss

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Re: Stéphane Dion criticizes Thomas Mulcair for East-West strategy

Oilsands profits inflated, Mulcair charges

Federal NDP leader Thomas Mulcair, who came under blistering attack from Prime Minister Stephen Harper and western premiers Wednesday over his oilsands policy, turned up the political heat by saying that profits earned by oilsands firms are artificially inflated.

"Right now, we're allowing them to use the air, the water and the land as a free dumping ground and that's where the problem arises," Mulcair said in an interview Wednesday with The Vancouver Sun.

As a result, "profits are higher than they should be" in the oilsands sector.

"Why is that the case? Because they're not assuming their obligations under the law because the government is not enforcing the law."

Earlier Wednesday, Harper accused Mulcair of calling the oilsands industry a "disease" that should be shut down, while Alberta Premier Alison Redford said the NDP leader should show more "courtesy" by informing himself properly before making "disparaging comments about Alberta."

Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall and B.C. Finance Minister Kevin Falcon also tore into the Montreal MP, who has blamed lax federal regulation of the oilsands industry for an inflated dollar and hundreds of thousands of lost jobs across Canada, especially in Ontario and Quebec.

"The leader of the NDP and our-selves are really on different wave-lengths here," Harper said in the House of Commons. "We're not interested in identifying which industries we're going to call diseases and shut down."

Harper was referring to Mulcair's argument that the oilsands industry has caused "Dutch disease" - a term to describe the damage experienced by manufacturing firms due to a currency inflated by soaring natural-resources exports.

His comments coincide with a report from the respected Institute for Research on Public Policy, which concluded that Canada is suffering from a "mild case" of the Dutch disease.

Redford made her strongest statements yet on the controversy after Mulcair dismissed her, Premier Christy Clark and Saskatchewan's Wall a day earlier as Harper's "messengers" in the oilsands controversy.

"Is this national leadership?" Red-ford wrote on Twitter Wednesday. "Thomas Mulcair continues to make divisive, ill-informed and false comments."

"There they go again. Mulcair, NDP stick to attack on West, dismiss concerns of western leaders and economists," Wall tweeted Falcon, meanwhile, said Mul-cair is making "incredibly ignorant" comments about the role of natural resources in Canada's economy.

"I am just amazed that he is going to start out his leadership aspirations to want to be prime minister by having an attack on the West."

Falcon also dismissed the suggestion that western premiers are Harper's messengers.

"Of course not. The prime minister or the finance minister has never phoned me to suggest what we should be saying about ignorant comments that a national leader may say," he said.

"I'm just telling you exactly what I think about those comments. When I read them, at the time, I was shaking my head. I just could not believe it," he added.

Acting Liberal leader Bob Rae said Mulcair is dividing the country and disrespecting the premiers.

"You don't create a national strategy as a country by dismissing the premiers as messengers for one party or another," Rae told reporters.

"The premiers are serious, elected people who are defending the interests of their province, and if you disagree with them the least can do is treat them with respect."

Mulcair, who has always rejected allegations he wants to shut down the oil-sands sector, pointed out in Wednesday's interview that he's not criticizing Alberta's environmental laws.

"My debate has been with Stephen Harper all along," Mulcair said when asked about the premiers' criticism. "I've never referred to any failure on the part of the government of Alberta."

He was asked several times Tuesday and again Wednesday if his goal is to reduce production from the oilsands to lower the dollar.

Mulcair, who advocates a cap-and-trade system to bring down Canada's greenhouse gas emissions, replied each time that his only objective is to enforce the "polluter pay" principle by enforcing federal laws such as the Fisheries Act and the Navigable Waters Act.

He drew attention Tuesday to the Sydney tar ponds, one of Canada's worst ecological messes caused by effluent from a now-closed steel mill on Cape Breton Island. A Toronto Star report last month described it as "an industrial wasteland of toxic sludge."

Mulcair said Canadians will have to pay $1 billion to clean that up.

"What we're leaving future generations are dozens and dozens and dozens of tar ponds," Mulcair said of the oilsands sector.

Oilsands profits inflated, Mulcair charges
 

captain morgan

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Re: Stéphane Dion criticizes Thomas Mulcair for East-West strategy



Study (with graphs and everything so it must be factual!)

Jack Mintz: No Dutch disease here



Then there are economists who point to the “Dutch disease,” whereby the booming resource economy is said to be crowding out the manufacturing industry. The term “disease” itself is pejorative, with the presumption that resource sectors are bad and the manufacturing sector is good. It is rooted in a 1977 Economist article on how Netherlands manufacturing suffered as a result of a 1959 discovery of a large natural gas field, which drove up the Dutch currency. Maybe Dutch manufacturing did decline, but one would be hard pressed to argue that the Netherlands has not been one of the exceptional European economies in the past half century.

While the “Dutch disease” argument has some relevance in that natural resource booms can push up a country’s exchange rate, thereby making other exporting industries less competitive,
it would also be the case with declining natural resource prices and falling exchange rates that exporting industries would grow while the resource-based economies would fall back.

As shown in the graphs, manufacturing in Ontario, industrial states and the United States in general has been on a steady decline for 35 years. In Ontario, manufacturing jobs as a share of total industrial employment has fallen from 23% in 1976 to 12% in 2011. In the U.S., manufacturing has declined from 22% in 1976 to 9% today. Today, even in Ontario, Michigan and Ohio, manufacturing is not that important as a source of employment.

Sure, there are some cyclical trends when manufacturing jobs rose in Ontario during the period of a low exchange rate. But the long-term trend in manufacturing decline dominates. Thus, the “Dutch disease” explains little. Canada, like the United States, has lost manufacturing jobs going elsewhere, especially low-wage economies, a historical trend that is typical of most industrialized economies.


Read more here and see, first hand, the graphs that lend factual credibility!

Jack Mintz: No Dutch disease here | FP Comment | Financial Post
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Re: Stéphane Dion criticizes Thomas Mulcair for East-West strategy

"Right now, we're allowing them to use the air, the water and the land as a
free dumping ground and that's where the problem arises," Mulcair said in an
interview Wednesday with The Vancouver Sun.
Really? I'm sure AB charges for water the same way SK Water (a Crown Corp) does and there is no ****ing way in hell you can legally "dump" anything. You can't even dump in the woods unless it's in a baggie.
 

captain morgan

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Re: Stéphane Dion criticizes Thomas Mulcair for East-West strategy

That's an old Op-Ed that doesn't prove anything.

People are going by qualified studies from economic academics.

Keep up with the news, will you?


But it has graphs.. All scientific an everything.

Tell ya what, how about you simply respond to the highlighted portions. With all of the quantified info at your finger-tips, you ought to make mince meat out of it.

So, how about it? You up for the challenge or is this a little too inconvenient for ya?
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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Re: Stéphane Dion criticizes Thomas Mulcair for East-West strategy

The “Dutch disease” argument has some relevance in that natural resource booms can push up a country’s exchange rate, thereby making other exporting industries less competitive.

Agreed.

Now, deny this:

25 of the 80 industries (accounting for about one-quarter of total manufacturing output) show a significant negative relationship between the US-Canada exchange rate and output.
http://www.irpp.org/show_study.php?id=395
 

Goober

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Re: Stéphane Dion criticizes Thomas Mulcair for East-West strategy


It mentions textiles and apparel as hard hit - labor intensive- low skilled - competition from China- Vietnam- India - Only one western country has managed to keep a strong clothing industry - Italy - Now how they managed that I do not know.
 

captain morgan

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Re: Stéphane Dion criticizes Thomas Mulcair for East-West strategy



Nice!... The selectivity of your address pretty much confirms your inability to provide any of these 'quantifiable facts' that you talk so much about.



... And?... This somehow provides irrefutable evidence that dutch disease (insert sinister music here) is the smoking gun?

You can link that to the number of kittens that get stuck in trees for all I care, it doesn't provide any real cause and effect rationale now does it?
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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Re: Stéphane Dion criticizes Thomas Mulcair for East-West strategy

This somehow provides irrefutable evidence that dutch disease (insert sinister music here) is the smoking gun?

Of course not.

If you actually read the words that I type, you'll know that I've expressed already that the dutch disease is simply one component affecting the manufacturing sector. The other components are definitely within our control.

So, I don't even know why you're in such a tiff.
 

captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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Re: Stéphane Dion criticizes Thomas Mulcair for East-West strategy

It mentions textiles and apparel as hard hit - labor intensive- low skilled - competition from China- Vietnam- India - Only one western country has managed to keep a strong clothing industry - Italy - Now how they managed that I do not know.

I'd speculate that the Italian situation relates to supplying a niche market in which the suppliers are considered (or perceived to be) the best quality.

Basically, Gucci doesn't compete with Walmart brand clothing
 

captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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Re: Stéphane Dion criticizes Thomas Mulcair for East-West strategy

Of course not.

If you actually read the words that I type, you'll know that I've expressed already that the dutch disease is simply one component affecting the manufacturing sector. The other components are definitely within our control.

So, I don't even know why you're in such a tiff.


It comes down to this, you select 1 or 2 variables that you admit are not the predominant forces in this econ system and demand that an entire nation and multiple sectors take it on the chin for 1 sector that has been in decline for decades.

Your solutions are so partisan that it's truly beyond comprehension.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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Re: Stéphane Dion criticizes Thomas Mulcair for East-West strategy

Of course not.

If you actually read the words that I type, you'll know that I've expressed already that the dutch disease is simply one component affecting the manufacturing sector. The other components are definitely within our control.

So, I don't even know why you're in such a tiff.

1 question - the pipeline that is already shipping oil east to west - Mulcair wants another environmental review- As it is already shipping oil why would another review be required. Does direction affect the environment?
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Re: Stéphane Dion criticizes Thomas Mulcair for East-West strategy

It comes down to this, you select 1 or 2 variables that you admit are not the predominant forces in this econ system and demand that an entire nation and multiple sectors take it on the chin for 1 sector that has been in decline for decades.

Wrong again.

I've stated time and time again, that the oilsands can be developed in a manner that maintains prosperity in that sector without hampering the manufacturing sector. The reason why this external force isn't as pervasive right now is because we've just begun.