Not making a lot of headway with them either. Sorry to be the one to tell you.
There is the evidence.
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I am not forcing myself on others; you are free not to read; I am not obliging you or anyone else.
So as long as I give the evidence that "there is a builder of the house, and God is the Creator of everything in the universe" and you deny this evidence and insist there is no evidence to confuse people ... I'll keep saying the evidence which you deny.
I'm not denying anything.
I am exposing you as a liar though.
And by posting here repeatedly, and you saying that anyone who reads the Quran - regardless of whether they want to or not - they "must" convert or go to Hell.
YOU said that.
So the moment anyone "reads" any of your stuff, that's their situation, according to you.
And to add to that, you KEEP posting, about only the Quran, and nothing else, anywhere else. When everyone who has replied to you has clearly been AGAINST your belief. You aren't reaching anyone here. Yet you persist. Because you are trying to 'force' people to believe in your religion, or rather, your version of it.
Or you're a masachist and enjoy being verbally beat on by others.
Your stubbornness and obstinacy are like that of the idolaters of Mecca towards God's messenger:
Quran 41: 5, which means:
(And they say [to Our messenger]:
"Our hearts are inside shells, [concealed] from such [monotheism] to which you invite us,
in our ears is deafness,
and between us and you is a barrier;
so do [whatever you like; for] we are doing [plots against you.])
quran-ayat.com/pret/41.htm#a41_5
And you think that by evading the evidence of the creation (that there must be a Creator of the universe), and by insisting on your 'no evidence' you can prove the atheism.
You gave no evidence. You gave an argument, that if something exists it must have been created by a creator, then immediately refuted your own argument by saying that Allah exists but had no creator.
Claiming there must be creator isn’t evidence, it’s just a belief of yours; you need evidence for that belief and the fact that the universe exists isn’t evidence for it, there are naturalistic explanations that don’t require a creator. I haven’t tried to prove atheism either, I’ve merely argued that given what I know it’s the more reasonable position.
Well, I am what God made me.
And while I have no issue with Islam in general, nor really Mohammed himself (well, on some things; others I have big issues with) you on the other hand are not exactly the spokesperson your religion needs.
And if being stubborn against your lies damns me by your version of God, well that's fine, since I wouldn't follow him anyway.
I said: A constructed house should have its builder, and the universe with its systems, there must be a Builder or Creator Who created it.
2- The law of physics inserted in the entire universe indicate One God Who applicated them in this way.
3- It can't be this marvelous universe with its systems and laws came into existence spontaneously.
Moreover, "there are naturalistic explanations"... why should anyone take these blindly? Saying there are scientists and naturalists thinking in this way .. and we follow them on the pretext they are scientists?
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Then you deserve no pity, for there is no help for you. You are as pathetic as any Christian of the past who tried to force the world to convert to their faith. You are as bad as the Crusaders. As the Missionaries. As the Popes, as all of them.
Because you are EXACTLY like them, only using Islam as your religion of choice.
You lie.
You "Force" your religion onto people, then blame them if they do not convert.
You post cherry-picked ayat's as if that proves anything, which it does not.
You are the LAST type of person Islam needs to be out in the world.
You are no better than the Terrorists, the Taliban.
If you are insulted; Good.
If you're angry; Good.
Because in the end, you are NOT representing God - any God - but your own bastardization of God and making a fool out of yourself in the process. I will no longer consider being respectful, as I have tried to be, nor even serious about your posts. You are a stain on Islam and people like you ruin it so people like those on this board treat it like it's garbage. That is on YOU, not the "disbelievers" or "Atheists", "Zionists", or whoever else you want to blame. It's YOU, not anyone else.
May you someday realize it.
Why must that be so? That's your conclusion, but it's not the only possible one. I refer you to the book A Universe From Nothing by the distinguished physicist Lawrence M. Krause. I could with equal plausibility argue that the creator must also have had a creator, who must also have had a creator, etc. The essence of Dr. Krause's thesis is there is something rather than nothing because "nothing" in that meaning, according to what we understand of quantum theory, is unstable, something is going to appear.
They indicate nothing of the sort, again that's not the only possible conclusion from the evidence, and where multiple conclusions are possible, you don't get to just pick the one you like, you have to await further evidence.
Sure it can. The best current evidence suggests that's exactly what happened, and there are plausible, testable explanations for how it happened. Your inability to grasp that is just a failure of your understanding and imagination.
I'm not suggesting taking them blindly, the scientists have made the case pretty well, as you might know if you'd read anything other than the Quran and Al-Hilly's interpretation of it. Modern science has gone way past both of you, and somehow it also seems worth noting here that every religiously derived cosmology has been proven wrong, and not just a little bit, but hugely, egregiously wrong. Science has shown reality to be grand and complex far beyond anything humans ever imagined, and we didn't discover that by reading scriptures.
If you evade this point, there can be no discussion with you.
Anyone can keep saying to any proof: this is not possible.
No, there must be a creator and a maker to everything and a mover for any movement, and a worker of every work.
Now, you start referring to others, which is your mistake.
This is another point, to which we replied before.
Dr. Krause and Dawkins are in extreme wrong, and you follow them in their mistakes.
God's work:
What we see in the universe around us is the work of God the Creator and Almighty.
E.g. we see the planets move in their orbits around the sun: why shouldn't they escape into the outer space? Because God bound them with the gravity laws and the repelling force and other physical laws that He inserted in the universe.
Quran 35: 41, which means:
(God holds the heavens and the earth [: the planets and the earth, with the gravity power of the sun]; in order that they do not escape [from it and scatter in the space.]
And if they were to escape [the gravity of the sun], no one else than He could hold them.
He is Ever-Clement [and] Most Forgiving.)
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/35.htm#a35_41
The illusion of many people in the West (and the East) is that they imagine God as a huge man hiding somewhere in the sky.. which is their wrong misconception: God is beyond the imagination of any creature; He is not like any material or spiritual creature.
This illusion came from the distorted Torah of Ezra in which God was described in this way that He made man in His likeness.
While in the Glorious Quran, there is no creature like God.
Quran 42: 11, which means:
(There is not, as His likeness, anything [material or spiritual]; He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing.)
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/41.htm#a41_11
And in another Quran revelation, God cannot be seen by the sight of eyes:
Quran 6: 103, which means:
(Sights do not perceive Him, but He perceives sights, and He is the Compassionate [about His servants], the Well-Aware [about His creatures.])
quran-ayat.com/pret/6.htm#a6_103
Moreover, God is Eternal, He is the First and the Last; He is above having any son or parents, and He is above having any wife, and is above having any associate with Him in the ownership and kingdom, and there is no equal to Him.
What we see in the universe around us is the work of God the Creator and Almighty.
E.g. we see the planets move in their orbits around the sun: why shouldn't they escape into the outer space? Because God bound them with the gravity laws and the repelling force and other physical laws that He inserted in the universe.
Quran 35: 41, which means:
(God holds the heavens and the earth [: the planets and the earth, with the gravity power of the sun]; in order that they do not escape [from it and scatter in the space.]
And if they were to escape [the gravity of the sun], no one else than He could hold them.
He is Ever-Clement [and] Most Forgiving.)
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/35.htm#a35_41
The illusion of many people in the West (and the East) is that they imagine God as a huge man hiding somewhere in the sky.. which is their wrong misconception: God is beyond the imagination of any creature; He is not like any material or spiritual creature.
This illusion came from the distorted Torah of Ezra in which God was described in this way that He made man in His likeness.
While in the Glorious Quran, there is no creature like God.
Quran 42: 11, which means:
(There is not, as His likeness, anything [material or spiritual]; He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing.)
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/41.htm#a41_11
And in another Quran revelation, God cannot be seen by the sight of eyes:
Quran 6: 103, which means:
(Sights do not perceive Him, but He perceives sights, and He is the Compassionate [about His servants], the Well-Aware [about His creatures.])
quran-ayat.com/pret/6.htm#a6_103
Moreover, God is Eternal, He is the First and the Last; He is above having any son or parents, and He is above having any wife, and is above having any associate with Him in the ownership and kingdom, and there is no equal to Him.
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Here is one for ya. The Quran says the Bible and Torah are "The Truth". That means the Quran is false.
And you got called out for a logical fallacy.
Uh no, they don't. Clearly you don't understand physics or scientific laws.
Why not?
As opposed to following a pedophile who enjoyed hallucinogens and "saw god"? Scientist provide evidence for their claims. When new information is learned scientific claims are adjusted for the new evidence. All you do is repeat the same bullshit ad nauseum and act like you've provided irrefutable proof.
"All things have a creator, except Allah". Wrong, WE created the gods, it wasn't the other way around. We are evolution's slave, chosen by coincidence.
And you, who read nothing but the Quran and Al-Hilly’s wildly erroneous claims, think you’re in a position to correct centuries of careful scientific work by some of the smartest people who’ve ever lived? Your religious beliefs have made you arrogant and ignorant, and closed your mind to reality. You’re obviously not stupid, but you might as well be for all the difference that makes. Science works, regardless of what you want to believe, and revelation is not a path to useful knowledge about it.