There is so much wrong being said by both sides about the Gerald Stanley trial

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
There is so much wrong being said about the death of Colten Boushie and the trial of Gerald Stanley, it’s hard to know where to begin.
First off, let me start by saying I covered the North Battleford Provincial Court and Battleford Court of Queen’s Bench from 2004-2008 for the Battlefords News-Optimist, averaging one to three days in any given week. The only people who spent more time in those courts were the court staff, RCMP, security, judges and lawyers.

I followed the case intensely via Twitter, following numerous reputable journalists who were rigorously live-tweeting the case. None seemed to get everything, but by following enough of them and seeing the concurrence between what they put out, it was the closest coverage I have ever seen of a case without actually sitting on those hard wooden pews in Battleford Court of Queen’s Bench.
In following the commentary and news coverage afterwards, it has become apparent that several myths have arisen on both sides of the affair, and some things that should be considered.
Let’s begin by noting the chief justice of Saskatchewan’s Court of Queens Bench chose to assign himself as the judge for this case. That’s right from the top. If anyone should be expected to ensure a fair trial, one would think it would be the chief justice of province.
Much has been made of the all-white jury. But the calling of 750 potential jurors of a jury pool is extraordinary. That was a deliberate attempt by the court to provide as wide a jury pool as possible, and certainly larger than anything I encountered. That just a sliver of those potential jurors showed up is a reflection that many people, including First Nations people, did not wish to put in an effort for this case. Perhaps if all, or even most, of those 750 people showed up, given the local demographics and substantial Indigenous population, it would have been impossible for the defence to challenge them all people of visible minorities. There would have been too many.
Such challenges have been a part of the legal system basically forever. They exist for both the Crown and defence, and for good reason. They are seeking impartiality.
Many, many people have said this case justified people defending their property. Some people seem to think it happened in the middle of the night – it didn’t. It was late afternoon. The defense did not claim a defence of property, nor did it claim self-defence on behalf of Gerald Stanley. They claimed it was an accident, and the jury – 12 people, who heard all the evidence – believed it.
Some people think Canadians can “stand their ground.” Some people think you can get away with purposely shooting someone in the head. Both are wrong. This does not give precedent to “defend our places,” as one person commented.
The defence of accident was significantly based on the presence of a bulged shell casing found on the dashboard of the SUV. That part has been frequently left out in the coverage and commentary.
A great many people think the five in the Ford Escape were just looking for help with a tire, yet that is not what their own testimony reflected. They did not testify they walked up to the house to ask for help, or to the people working on the fence. Rather, they testified they had been “checking” vehicles, on another farm before coming to the Stanley farm. They testified to trying to start a quad. That is not asking for help, nor asking for a floor jack.
Many people have said those in the vehicle were unarmed. That is false. They drove into that yard with a loaded .22 rifle, albeit damaged from their attempt to break into a vehicle in a nearby farm just before. The SUV had live rounds and spent .22 casings in it, as they had been shooting that day. Anyone who knows anything about firearms knows you do not put a round in the chamber unless you plan to shoot something. The .22 was found with a round in the chamber, and in Boushie’s immediate proximity with his blood spattered on it.
From my experience as a court reporter, there could have been a slew of charges on both sides. Gerald Stanley could have been charged with various firearms charges regarding storage and careless usage, for instance, charges that may have stuck if they had been included in the trial. The occupants of the SUV could have been charged with similar firearms charges from their attendance at both farms. There could have been impaired driving charges as well, given their various (and often contradictory) testimony implied different drivers. They also could have been charged with armed robbery, use of a firearm in commission of an indictable offence, attempted theft and mischief charges. Possibly perjury, too. For whatever reason, we didn’t see that.
Gerald Stanley was found “not guilty” of second degree murder and manslaughter. That is not “innocent.” There is a distinction.
There are broader contexts to consider. When I was covering those courts, several of the worst cases I covered were with respect to young people from Red Pheasant First Nation committing break and enters and home invasions in the area, including on the reserve. There was a long history of these things taking place. Is that why Gerald Stanley had a gun in his shed?
Who will ever be willing to sit on a jury now? For one, those who didn’t show up seem to have gotten away with it. Those who served have been labelled racist, and wrong, by no less than an implied comment by the prime minister of Canada, who did not hear all the evidence. Thank goodness they are officially anonymous.
Emotions are high and tempers are flaring. There has been an enormous amount of racism, and a great deal of outright fallacies, expressed by “supporters” on both sides of this case. The whole affair has greatly set back relations between Indigenous and non-Indigenous people of Saskatchewan.
How we come back from that, I don’t know.
 

Mowich

Hall of Fame Member
Dec 25, 2005
16,649
998
113
76
Eagle Creek
There is so much wrong being said about the death of Colten Boushie and the trial of Gerald Stanley, it’s hard to know where to begin.
First off, let me start by saying I covered the North Battleford Provincial Court and Battleford Court of Queen’s Bench from 2004-2008 for the Battlefords News-Optimist, averaging one to three days in any given week. The only people who spent more time in those courts were the court staff, RCMP, security, judges and lawyers.

I followed the case intensely via Twitter, following numerous reputable journalists who were rigorously live-tweeting the case. None seemed to get everything, but by following enough of them and seeing the concurrence between what they put out, it was the closest coverage I have ever seen of a case without actually sitting on those hard wooden pews in Battleford Court of Queen’s Bench.
In following the commentary and news coverage afterwards, it has become apparent that several myths have arisen on both sides of the affair, and some things that should be considered.
Let’s begin by noting the chief justice of Saskatchewan’s Court of Queens Bench chose to assign himself as the judge for this case. That’s right from the top. If anyone should be expected to ensure a fair trial, one would think it would be the chief justice of province.
Much has been made of the all-white jury. But the calling of 750 potential jurors of a jury pool is extraordinary. That was a deliberate attempt by the court to provide as wide a jury pool as possible, and certainly larger than anything I encountered. That just a sliver of those potential jurors showed up is a reflection that many people, including First Nations people, did not wish to put in an effort for this case. Perhaps if all, or even most, of those 750 people showed up, given the local demographics and substantial Indigenous population, it would have been impossible for the defence to challenge them all people of visible minorities. There would have been too many.
Such challenges have been a part of the legal system basically forever. They exist for both the Crown and defence, and for good reason. They are seeking impartiality.
Many, many people have said this case justified people defending their property. Some people seem to think it happened in the middle of the night – it didn’t. It was late afternoon. The defense did not claim a defence of property, nor did it claim self-defence on behalf of Gerald Stanley. They claimed it was an accident, and the jury – 12 people, who heard all the evidence – believed it.
Some people think Canadians can “stand their ground.” Some people think you can get away with purposely shooting someone in the head. Both are wrong. This does not give precedent to “defend our places,” as one person commented.
The defence of accident was significantly based on the presence of a bulged shell casing found on the dashboard of the SUV. That part has been frequently left out in the coverage and commentary.
A great many people think the five in the Ford Escape were just looking for help with a tire, yet that is not what their own testimony reflected. They did not testify they walked up to the house to ask for help, or to the people working on the fence. Rather, they testified they had been “checking” vehicles, on another farm before coming to the Stanley farm. They testified to trying to start a quad. That is not asking for help, nor asking for a floor jack.
Many people have said those in the vehicle were unarmed. That is false. They drove into that yard with a loaded .22 rifle, albeit damaged from their attempt to break into a vehicle in a nearby farm just before. The SUV had live rounds and spent .22 casings in it, as they had been shooting that day. Anyone who knows anything about firearms knows you do not put a round in the chamber unless you plan to shoot something. The .22 was found with a round in the chamber, and in Boushie’s immediate proximity with his blood spattered on it.
From my experience as a court reporter, there could have been a slew of charges on both sides. Gerald Stanley could have been charged with various firearms charges regarding storage and careless usage, for instance, charges that may have stuck if they had been included in the trial. The occupants of the SUV could have been charged with similar firearms charges from their attendance at both farms. There could have been impaired driving charges as well, given their various (and often contradictory) testimony implied different drivers. They also could have been charged with armed robbery, use of a firearm in commission of an indictable offence, attempted theft and mischief charges. Possibly perjury, too. For whatever reason, we didn’t see that.
Gerald Stanley was found “not guilty” of second degree murder and manslaughter. That is not “innocent.” There is a distinction.
There are broader contexts to consider. When I was covering those courts, several of the worst cases I covered were with respect to young people from Red Pheasant First Nation committing break and enters and home invasions in the area, including on the reserve. There was a long history of these things taking place. Is that why Gerald Stanley had a gun in his shed?
Who will ever be willing to sit on a jury now? For one, those who didn’t show up seem to have gotten away with it. Those who served have been labelled racist, and wrong, by no less than an implied comment by the prime minister of Canada, who did not hear all the evidence. Thank goodness they are officially anonymous.
Emotions are high and tempers are flaring. There has been an enormous amount of racism, and a great deal of outright fallacies, expressed by “supporters” on both sides of this case. The whole affair has greatly set back relations between Indigenous and non-Indigenous people of Saskatchewan.
How we come back from that, I don’t know.

Good post, Colpy. Thank you.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
Disturbing Background Of Gerald Stanley Trial Judge




One issue that has not been addressed is the background of Saskatchewan Chief Justice Martel Popescul, who was the judge in the Gerald Stanley trial.
I came across his name in an article and recognized it, and had to double check to make sure it was the same person, and it is. The judge wasn't random, Martel Popescul, Chief Justice of Saskatchewan’s Court of Queens Bench, chose to assign himself as the judge for this case. This is not the first racially charged murder case he has been involved in, and not the first racially charged murder case in which the RCMP have been viewed with great suspicion.
Martel Popescul's name should be very familiar for those following the campaign for a public inquiry into the 1991 killing of Leo Lechance by Aryan Nations leader/RCMP informant Carnie Nerland.
Popescul was the lawyer representing the RCMP in their efforts to prevent a public inquiry into the Carney Nerland case, claiming the inquiry may inadvertantly expose other 'informants". Martel Popescul represented the RCMP while working as a lawyer for the Sanderson Balicki Popescul law firm based in Prince Albert.



Disturbing Background Of Gerald Stanley Trial Judge | The Media Co-op
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
It seems that arriving at the all white jury given the pool of 750 is even more remarkable.

With that sort of diversity how do you end up with a homogeneous group?

Some good info in this article but some dubious conclusions. The chief justice is somehow more ethical than the rest of the judges? - isn't the same as calling the jury racist?

At any rate a white man was the judge.
 

Murphy

Executive Branch Member
Apr 12, 2013
8,181
0
36
Ontario
Yes, he was white, and qualified. :lol:

Mister contrarian couldn't stir the pot last night. Gonna try again tonight? :lol:
 

Johnnny

Frontiersman
Jun 8, 2007
9,388
124
63
Third rock from the Sun
Being one the only white guy here minus Cliffy who has more Native friends than any of you guys have seen in your life i will say this.

This isn't about individual racism.

The natives aren't out to get us, they aren't out here to lynch the white man.

This is way complicated and with the under representation across the board its not hard to see where the natives are coming from. Yes its identity politics, but you know what? The courts should have at least pulled someone who was native from off of the streets and put them in the jury, even if it was "kicking and screaming". Yes he was a gangster, yes he was the initiator but still, there should have at least been 1 or 2 natives in the jury.

That being said. You come on my property and if i feel you are threatening my family then regardless of the colour of your skin, your getting it. Any one of us would
 
Last edited:

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
Being one the only white guy here minus Cliffy who has more Native friends than any of you guys have seen in your life i will say this.

This isn't about individual racism.
Precisely. It is systemic and all pervasive in this society.
 

Dixie Cup

Senate Member
Sep 16, 2006
6,215
3,950
113
Edmonton
Trudeau is an idiot so what else is new?


I, personally, don't know whether he was guilty because I wasn't in the courtroom and I didn't hear the evidence given. I am assuming the jurors made the correct decision based on what they heard. Calling them racists is in and of itself racist.


If there was something fishy about the whole trial or mistakes made, the prosecution will appeal the decision to a higher court. Everyone get a grip and take a deep breath. Things always has a way of working out.


BTW, I bet no one feels as much regret as the offender, ESPECIALLY if it was accidental. He has to live with it and maybe those who were involved will decide that breaking and entering and stealing might not be such a good idea!! But that's just me.


JMHO
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
Disturbing Background Of Gerald Stanley Trial Judge




One issue that has not been addressed is the background of Saskatchewan Chief Justice Martel Popescul, who was the judge in the Gerald Stanley trial.
I came across his name in an article and recognized it, and had to double check to make sure it was the same person, and it is. The judge wasn't random, Martel Popescul, Chief Justice of Saskatchewan’s Court of Queens Bench, chose to assign himself as the judge for this case. This is not the first racially charged murder case he has been involved in, and not the first racially charged murder case in which the RCMP have been viewed with great suspicion.
Martel Popescul's name should be very familiar for those following the campaign for a public inquiry into the 1991 killing of Leo Lechance by Aryan Nations leader/RCMP informant Carnie Nerland.
Popescul was the lawyer representing the RCMP in their efforts to prevent a public inquiry into the Carney Nerland case, claiming the inquiry may inadvertantly expose other 'informants". Martel Popescul represented the RCMP while working as a lawyer for the Sanderson Balicki Popescul law firm based in Prince Albert.



Disturbing Background Of Gerald Stanley Trial Judge | The Media Co-op

Sorry Cliffy, but doing your job as a lawyer is not a Disturbing Background

It seems that arriving at the all white jury given the pool of 750 is even more remarkable.

With that sort of diversity how do you end up with a homogeneous group?

Some good info in this article but some dubious conclusions. The chief justice is somehow more ethical than the rest of the judges? - isn't the same as calling the jury racist?

At any rate a white man was the judge.

So, are you accusing all 12 jurors of racism?

Nice, considering they are forbidden by law to defend themselves.
 

Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
22,040
6,160
113
Twin Moose Creek
From the article in the other thread of the 200 remaining potential jurors 1/2 where native of that 1/2 80 or so asked to be let go due to relation to the victim or prior commitments, of the 6 drawn from random selection where challenged and released by the defence. Of the 14 remaining 2 where no shows on the first day of trial. Which part of this selection would be considered racist? of the remaining 12 was one Metis with light skin? or how about the 2 no shows?
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
Sorry Cliffy, but doing your job as a lawyer is not a Disturbing Background



So, are you accusing all 12 jurors of racism?

Nice, considering they are forbidden by law to defend themselves.
the writer accused every judge in saskatchewan of it.

How about manning up and paying attention?
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister

Exactly, what is disturbing about the judge sitting as The Judge

The courts should have at least pulled someone who was native from off of the streets and put them in the jury, even if it was "kicking and screaming".

The reason that the jury selection process is done randomly is to eliminate any purposeful engineering of the final jury selection to render a finding

Yes he was a gangster, yes he was the initiator but still, there should have at least been 1 or 2 natives in the jury.

The attempt was made through the jury selection process to achieve that ends... From what I've read (and assuming that it is accurate) a disproportionately high percentage of the randomly selected jurors were of FN ancestry.

I can only imagine that forcing someone to participate (kicking and screaming) would jeopardize any opportunity for an objective assessment of the events if the unhappy juror already had venom in their eyes due to being there against their will

That being said. You come on my property and if i feel you are threatening my family then regardless of the colour of your skin, your getting it. Any one of us would

In terms of Boushie's gangster affiliation, that reality has all kinds of impact on how this result was reached.... Unfortunate as that may be, Stanley (to my knowledge) did not have a track record that would impact someone's general impressions of him, whereas Boushie did.

It's awfully difficult to ignore the premise that as the local community was experiencing situations of theft, robbery, etc, that people like Stanley would have that in the forefront of their thoughts and be fearful.

Can't say that i blame Stanley for having a rifle handy, all considering
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
116,696
14,116
113
Low Earth Orbit
Exactly, what is disturbing about the judge sitting as The Judge



The reason that the jury selection process is done randomly is to eliminate any purposeful engineering of the final jury selection to render a finding



The attempt was made through the jury selection process to achieve that ends... From what I've read (and assuming that it is accurate) a disproportionately high percentage of the randomly selected jurors were of FN ancestry.

I can only imagine that forcing someone to participate (kicking and screaming) would jeopardize any opportunity for an objective assessment of the events if the unhappy juror already had venom in their eyes due to being there against their will



In terms of Boushie's gangster affiliation, that reality has all kinds of impact on how this result was reached.... Unfortunate as that may be, Stanley (to my knowledge) did not have a track record that would impact someone's general impressions of him, whereas Boushie did.

It's awfully difficult to ignore the premise that as the local community was experiencing situations of theft, robbery, etc, that people like Stanley would have that in the forefront of their thoughts and be fearful.

Can't say that i blame Stanley for having a rifle handy, all considering
Long before this current mess:

An apparent spike in crime in some parts of rural Saskatchewan has some farmers arming themselves and it has the Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities, SARM, asking for more RCMP officers.

"We know the RCMP have only so many officers out there in the rural areas. We've requested from the province that we could get more funding for those officers. We've lobbied the federal government as well," said SARM president Ray Orb.

#farmerswithfirearms
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
116,696
14,116
113
Low Earth Orbit
Every section no longer has a family living on it year round.

Now it can be a few miles between occupied home quarters