The US is Messing with Iran

Nascar_James

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Re: RE: The US is Messing with Iran

jimmoyer said:
I am not sure whether or not Iran having nuclear power is good or bad. I know for sure that even the political opponents who argue with each other in Iran are all agreed that Iran deserves the national aspiration to join the big boys of nuclear poker.

Allowing Iran to have nuclear weapons would be equivalent to handing Nuclear Weapons to terrorists on a silver platter.

jimmoyer said:
Perhaps our tolerance of this may or may not lead to a greater disaster down the road.

It surely will if Iran ever does succeed in producing nuclear weapons.
 

Ocean Breeze

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But as long as the Americans feel threatened they will do what ever they want to feel secure

that is probably the case. What many fail to do is evaluate the situation objectively and examine/consider their own pattern of behavior on the international scene ......that has caused so much anger at the US to date......and therefore rendering them "insecure" and "threatened".

In many ways, the US is the author of its own misfortune. ....and the patterns of its conduct over the years have yeilded the outcomes we are seeing now.

cause and effect. ( albeit simplistic......still applies)
 

Just the Facts

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Ocean Breeze said:
Just the Facts said:
Of course, they only want Nuclear Technology for peaceful purposes.

:D :p :lol: :p :D :) 8)


and you can prove otherwise???..........again. Where are the FACTS???

Did you even read my previous post, let alone the linked article.

A nation that is supposed to be responsible enough to ward nuclear technology writes "Death to America" on it's missile carriers for a national parade, and you ask me for proof. :D :) :lol: :D :) :lol: 8)
 

Jo Canadian

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Just the Facts said:
A nation that is supposed to be responsible enough to ward nuclear technology writes "Death to America" on it's missile carriers for a national parade, and you ask me for proof. :D :) :lol: :D :) :lol: 8)

Nooooooooo, that would mean they write Death to America on their regular armemants, how would writing that on a missle with TNT turn it into the plan for a nuclear weapon?? That's just assumption not proof. The only proof there is that their Gov't is not fond of the States.

:lol: If I wrote Death to Finland on my .22 calibre and then wanted to buy a keg of gunpowder to make homemade fireworks, will the Finns assume I'm going to make a terrorist attack...Same logic.

Anyways the Hardliners In Iran are only clinging to power and are desparate to keep it that way, unfortunately for them the ratio of youth vs. adults in Iran is severely in favour of the youth right now and they're not very happy with the way things are run there. There's a growing resentment for the conservative leadership there and pretty soon the old ones will be dying off with many many Youths now adults in charge and wanting reform. It's just of matter of time really for a change to take place.

The states has the choice then to help them when the time comes for their social upheaval, or start pissing the younger ones off now so when they do come into power nothing will change. The answer to the above is very easy if we want positive change, but I'm not holding my breath the way things are run around the world today.
 

Just the Facts

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Jo Canadian said:
:lol: If I wrote Death to Finland on my .22 calibre and then wanted to buy a keg of gunpowder to make homemade fireworks, will the Finns assume I'm going to make a terrorist attack...Same logic.

You are not a nation state, you can write whatever you want on your .22.

The logic is not even remotely the same. I trust with a little more reflection you will see the difference between some whack job scribling inscriptions on his rifle and a nation-state on the verge of having nuclear power making threats against other nations.

Anyways the Hardliners In Iran are only clinging to power and are desparate to keep it that way, unfortunately for them the ratio of youth vs. adults in Iran is severely in favour of the youth right now and they're not very happy with the way things are run there. There's a growing resentment for the conservative leadership there and pretty soon the old ones will be dying off with many many Youths now adults in charge and wanting reform. It's just of matter of time really for a change to take place.

I agree with you there but unfortunately the conservatives hold all the power. The recent "election" was a clear indication of that. The conservative power base trancends generations, and the vocal opposition is disapperaing in the night.

The states has the choice then to help them when the time comes for their social upheaval, or start pissing the younger ones off now so when they do come into power nothing will change. The answer to the above is very easy if we want positive change, but I'm not holding my breath the way things are run around the world today.

The U.S. is very popular among Iranian youth, that's true. Or at least western culture is, anyway. However, I don't think effecting change in Iran can in any way be characterized as very easy, unfortunately, for the reason cited above about the vocal opposition.
 

Jo Canadian

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The U.S. is very popular among Iranian youth, that's true. Or at least western culture is, anyway. However, I don't think effecting change in Iran can in any way be characterized as very easy, unfortunately, for the reason cited above about the vocal opposition.

And of course the states should try to keep it that way. If they do go into Iran with the Iraq mentality, the Iranian youth's bubble will be burst.

You are not a nation state, you can write whatever you want on your .22. The logic is not even remotely the same. I trust with a little more reflection you will see the difference between some whack job scribling inscriptions on his rifle and a nation-state on the verge of having nuclear power making threats against other nations.

:? Of course I'm aware of the difference, I figgered the Analogy would be lost on you.

I agree with you there but unfortunately the conservatives hold all the power. The recent "election" was a clear indication of that. The conservative power base trancends generations, and the vocal opposition is disapperaing in the night.

:D There's no denying that the conservatives are in power and it's because of a so called election. My point was that the youth that do want change are a very large population compared to the now aging conservative population. Ironically it's because when The mullahs came into power in the late 70's they outlawed ALL birth control,
and the population went Zing!!! Now it'll bite them in the end.

The Iranian Gov't right now is no more hostile to the US than the US is being with them. And just because there is hostile dialogue between both of them doesn't mean that the first thing they reach for would be nukes.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Blame Iran.

What we were actually doing in Basra was to turn a blind eye on abuse, murder and anarchy

By Robert Fisk

09/24/05 "The Independent" - - "Water is your friend" was the advice regularly given to a truly good friend of mine here in the Middle East. The speaker was a member of the One-Thousand- Litres- a-Day-Keeps-Dehydration-at-Bay Brigade, although I have to say that the Arabs take a different view. After generations of sword-like desert heat, they take tea in the morning, endure an oven-like day without sustenance, and then sip another scalding tea at dusk. The less you drink, the less you perspire, the less you need to drink. In a land with few oases, it's a craft worth learning.

The problem is that today, water is not our "friend". It comes smashing into New Orleans; it drowns the nursing home elderly in their baths; it assaults Galveston and Houston; it kills millions in Bangladesh, dozens in Andhya Pradesh; it floods south from the great ice-cold green bays of the Arctic; it carries 19th-century houses through the centre of Prague, and it bubbles into the bars of English pubs from the ancient, overflowing river-banks of Kent. Water has become our enemy.

There is a beautiful, delicate, inevitably cruel irony at the way in which nature and man conspire to uncover the lies of the rich and powerful. Just as President Bush's disastrous environmental policies are now destroying the southern coast of the United States--yes, it is global warming that causes this massacre of the innocent--America is preparing to receive its 2,000th dead soldier back from Iraq. No bodies, please--let's not dishonour the dead of New Orleans by taking photographs of them. Nor the American dead of Iraq by taking pictures of their coffins en route home. Death, as usual, is what happens to other people.

But the photographs of British soldiers, cowled in fire, hurling themselves from the top of their Warrior fighting vehicle in Basra this week, were the final iconic images of our uniquely British folly in Iraq. Lord Blair of Kut al-Amara's henchmen have concocted another monstrous lie about all this, of course. The Iraqi policemen who protested at Britain's destruction of their prison--and the crowds who set fire to the Warrior (and its crew) -- were only a few hundred people. Who were we to suggest they represented the millions of Shia Muslim voters who solemnly went to the polls last January? Ho, ho, ho. Yes, and who were we to suggest that the "few hundred" Saddam "remnants" identified as troublemakers in mid-2003 represented a Sunni insurgency? And who were we, back in 1971, to suggest that a few hundred stone-throwers in the Falls Road and Short Strand in Belfast represented "the vast majority of ordinary peace- loving Catholics" in Northern Ireland?

I speculated some weeks ago as to when the bubble will burst. With the insurgent capture (and massacre) of a US base in Iraq? With the overrunning of the Green Zone in Baghdad? Every day now brings Vietnam-style evidence of our collapse. The Americans batter their way into Tal Afar and kill, so they say, "142 insurgents". Get that? US forces manage to kill 142 of their enemies, not a single innocent man, woman or child among them!

But let's go back to the Brits. Remember how we were told that our immense experience of "peace- keeping" in Northern Ireland had allowed us to get on better with the Iraqis in the south than our American cousins further north? I don't actually remember us doing much "peacekeeping" in Belfast after about 1969--the rest, I recall, was about biffing the IRA--but in any case the myth was burned out on the uniforms of British troops this week.

Indeed, much of the war in Northern Ireland appeared to revolve around the use of covert killings and SAS undercover operatives who blew away IRA men in ambushes. Which does raise the question, doesn't it, as to just what our two SAS lads were doing cruising around Basra in Arab dress with itsy-bitsy moustaches and guns? Why did no one ask? How many SAS men are in southern Iraq? Why are they there? What are their duties? What weapons do they carry? Whoops! No one asked.

What we were actually doing to "keep the peace" in Basra was to turn a Nelsonian "blind eye" on the abuse, murder and anarchy of Basra since 2003 (including, it turns out, quite a bit of abuse by our very own squaddies). When Christian alcohol sellers were murdered, we remained silent. When ex-Baathists were slaughtered in the streets--including women and their children, a civil war if ever there was one--our British officers somehow forgot to tell the press. Anything to keep our boys out of harm's way.

But this is what has been happening in Basra. As the locally recruited police force (paid by the occupation authorities) sucked into its ranks the riff-raff of every local militia--as it did in Sunni areas to the north--we ignored this. Even when an American reporter investigating this extraordinary phenomenon was murdered--almost certainly by these same policemen--the British remained silent. We were "controlling" the streets. In Amara--by awful coincidence, the very same Kut al-Amara with whose name, I'm sure, my favourite prime minister will soon be ennobled--British soldiers now operate just one heavily armed convoy patrol a day. That is the extent of our "control" over Amara. Now we are reducing our patrols in Basra. You bet we are.

And a familiar bleat is rising from the sheep pen. "Outside powers" are interfering in southern Iraq. Thirty-five years ago, it was the Irish Republic that was assisting Britain's IRA enemies. Now it is Iran that is supposedly urging the Shia of Basra to revolt. In other words, it's not our fault--yet again, it's the bloody foreigners what's to blame.

Alas, it is not. Iraqis do not need Iranian weapons or military expertise. Their country is afloat with weapons and they learned how to make bombs--in their millions--during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war. Half the Iraqi cabinet are linked to Iran--have the British forgotten that their honourable Dawa party government officials in Baghdad worked for the very same Dawa party that blew up the US and French embassies in Kuwait, and tried to kill the emir in the late 1980s? That these same gentlemen belong to a party which was effectively controlling the western hostages in Beirut during this same period?

No. All this is forgotten. Blame Iran. Later, no doubt, we'll blame those ungrateful Iraqis and then we'll declare victory and do what Defence Secretary John Reid claims we won't do: cut and run. And there again, we're in danger of forgetting the origin of such things. Faced with the imminent destruction of his vessel, a sailing ship captain would cut his anchor or sail ropes to allow his ship to move away from rocks or from being overwhelmed by the waves. Cutting and running was often an eminently sensible thing to do. But not for John Reid. We're not going to cut and run. We're going to be blown on to the rocks.
 

Ocean Breeze

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September 26, 2005

"Top-ranking Americans have told equally top-ranking Indians in recent weeks that the US has plans to invade Iran before Bush's term ends. In 2002, a year before the US invaded Iraq, high-ranking Americans had similarly shared their definitive vision of a post-Saddam Iraq, making it clear that they would change the regime in Baghdad." Calcutta Telegraph 9-25-05

The UN's nuclear watchdog agency, the IAEA, officially signed Iran's death-warrant yesterday. By passing a US-backed resolution that refers Iran's nuclear program to the Security Council, the member states have endorsed America's genocidal Middle East policy and paved the way for another war. Even though Tal Afar, Samara and other civilian enclaves are still under a withering attack from American forces, and even though reports of rampant prisoner abuse and torture continue to surface around Falluja, and even though increasing numbers of young Sunni men, who've been beaten and shot in the back of the head, are being fished from the Euphrates River every day; the sycophantic Euro-allies have thrown their support behind a resolution that will unavoidably lead to another war. Everyone who signed on to this treacherous pact is equally culpable of the misery it will inevitably produce.

Behind the fraudulent rhetoric and grand gestures for peace, the former colonial powers, Germany, France and England, have bonded with the Master-state to plunder and occupy the resource-rich world beyond their borders. They'll be knocking the cobwebs off the pith-helmets and jodhpurs in jolly-England as they join the campaign to strip another unsuspecting nation of their natural wealth and subjugate their people.

Old habits die hard.

The balloting on the IAEA's resolution was another stunning example of US political fakery. Normally the agency requires that resolutions be unanimously approved.
Not this time.
The vote for a resolution typically requires that two-thirds of the members consent. (The resolution only got 22 of 35 possible votes)
Not this time.

Every part of the voting was twisted, manipulated and corrupted to meet the needs of the superpower and its lust for war. Behind every sordid ballot, the coercive influence of the American Goliath could be felt.
No one wants this war, but few have the courage to defy their Washington overlords.

The resolution will never reach the Security Council where it would be immediately struck-down by a veto from Russia or China, but the damage has been done, all the same. The Bush administration will use the mere suggestion of "non-compliance" as cover for unleashing the Israeli hell-hounds on Iranian weapons-sites; following the strategy that has been in place from the very onset.
Schroeder, Chirac and Blair are as guilty of this impending aggression as the perpetrators in Tel Aviv or Washington.
Iran has no nuclear weapons, no nuclear weapons-program, no plans for acquiring nuclear weapons, and no territorial ambitions.
They pose no threat to their neighbors.
Did they help to push Israel out of Lebanon after a 20 year occupation?
Yes. Was that a crime?

Tehran is not involved in the Iraqi resistance, is not supplying military hardware or bomb-making material to foreign terrorists, does not want another war, and has no desire to be nuked by Don Rumsfeld. Despite the nonsensical braying from Time Magazine's Michael Ware; accusing Iran of all kinds of nefarious activity in fueling the Iraqi resistance, none of his claims can be verified. What can be verified, however, are the myriad attempts by the Pentagon to propagandize and finger-point at other states for the problems they created for themselves in Iraq.

Sorry, guys; Iraq is your baby. Now, fix it. As for Michael Ware, the Pentagon has a whole stable-full of enlightened scribes ready to manufacture whatever fiction is required for the next war. Ware is no exception. He's just doing his job.

So far, Iran's nuclear program has operated entirely within the confines of the NPT (Non-proliferation Treaty) The IAEA's chief Mohammed Elbaradei has stated repeatedly that there is no evidence whatsoever that Iran is building nuclear weapons.
None!

But, let's not ignore the real meaning of the NPT. The Non-proliferation Treaty is nothing more than a legal-framework that institutionalizes the double-standards and hypocrisy of the more powerful states. Why should Iran grovel for nuclear fuel for its power plants, while the USA is developing new bunker-busting nukes, space-warfare weaponry, and upgrading its 10,000 nuclear missile stockpile?
What we really need is an IAEA inspection team to ferret through the US arsenal. Then the world could really make some headway on proliferation issues.

Why should Iran be threatened and humiliated in front of the world body when Israel, India and Pakistan stole nuclear technology and developed bombs for themselves?
The NPT is a degrading apartheid-system that maintains the status quo and keeps America's boot firmly placed on the neck of the developing world. It should be replaced with a scheme that puts justice and evenhandedness above the self-serving bigotries of the superpower and its cohorts.

But, why are we kidding ourselves anyway? The current farce at the UN has nothing to do with Iran's imaginary nuclear weapons-program. The whole affair is just a shabby rerun of the lead up to "Shock and Awe".
Where's the hidden stash of Iraqi WMD we were promised by Bush, Cheney and Powell? Apparently, they were secretly spirited away to Tehran where they could create the pretext for another war.

Iran's real crime is that it sits on an ocean of oil; the driving force behind all administration policies. It is in "non-compliance" with the Bush directive that puts every drop of world petroleum in the hands of the Washington cabal.

The EU's participation in this charade tells us that the global oil shortfall is even more severe than most people imagine. In just 5 years, all of the existing reserves of world oil will begin trending downward; falling well short of growing demand. Much of the current research indicates that Saudi Arabia is drying up as well; leaving western economies at the mercy of Teheran, Baghdad and Caracas. Despite the phony bluster about "free trade", Bush and co. have no intention of sacrificing American supremacy to something as fickle as the market. Nor do they plan to allow the global economic system to slip into foreign control by entrusting the world's most valuable resource to the dubious rulers in Iraq and Iran; not while they have an endless supply of laser-guided missiles and bunker-busting munitions.

The handwriting is on the wall. It's just a matter of whether Iran "will go peacefully into that good night" or not. The ground has already been cleared for another larcenous crusade; another monstrous, unprovoked aggression against a peaceful nation. The red-herring of "non-compliance" will be brandished to the world while Washington gears up for its next bloody campaign. The plan to reshape the Middle East is moving forward at breakneck-speed and unsuspecting Iran just entered the imperial crosshairs.

Fasten your seatbelts for another savage cakewalk.



could be that bush's claim to fame will be a WAR Trilogy. Gosh, that man LOVES WAR. Must make him feel so empowered. (which implies his inferiority as a man, a person and leader. A complex that has repeated itself with many inadequate men through history)

*murdering savage " comes to mind.....when describing him..
 

jimmoyer

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Sometimes war talk is just war talk in the game of international poker to see if someone blinks and if the bluff works, well then a lot of lives have been saved then, n'est pas ?

You can read a lot of memos and in every nation there is a memo for a scenario on everything you can imagine.
 

Johnny Utah

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Mar 11, 2006
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Re: RE: The US is Messing with Iran

Nascar_James said:
jimmoyer said:
I am not sure whether or not Iran having nuclear power is good or bad. I know for sure that even the political opponents who argue with each other in Iran are all agreed that Iran deserves the national aspiration to join the big boys of nuclear poker.

Allowing Iran to have nuclear weapons would be equivalent to handing Nuclear Weapons to terrorists on a silver platter.

jimmoyer said:
Perhaps our tolerance of this may or may not lead to a greater disaster down the road.

It surely will if Iran ever does succeed in producing nuclear weapons.
Iran is the Worlds biggest sponsor of Terrorism. So if they gain control of a Nuclear Weapon they would pass it along to a Terrorist group of their choice, this is something the Anti-War Moonbats don't understand.

If Bush did nothing and let Iran obtain a Nuclear Weapon, the Anti-War Moonbats would be bashing him for doing nothing. Bush is trying to stop Iran and he is getting bashed for it being compared to Hitler BS like that. Bush is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, at least he is doing something rather then sitting back for 8 years doing nothing like Clinton.
 

Colpy

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Re: RE: The US is Messing wit

darkbeaver said:
That,s a good cartoon Jo, it,s whats coming as fast as Uncle Sham can make it happen.

It is a good cartoon. Jo seems to have a million of 'em.

I just think a wrecked Iran is better than a nuclear-armed Iran.
 

Sassylassie

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Jan 31, 2006
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Johnny the entire world now knows Billy was doing more than nothing with um Monica in the Oval Office.
 

mabudon

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Mar 15, 2006
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RE: The US is Messing wit

I think he would be a lot less damned if he didn't

the cartoon, to me (which is why I asked) seems to make a point of humour on the fact that, while pretending to play a beautiful symphony of peeance and freeance in Iraq, he instead wound up ruining the music AND the instrument he was to be playing it on..... then the cartoon suggests that the same mangling is about to happen in Iran, in the exact same way, one the same stage and with the same pretexts assumed for the first grand misadventure... and I just don't get how it shows the "plight" of the great freedom lover.. if anything it is a "sad but true" cartoon to me, nothing funny at all there, oh well