The Tarriff Hype.

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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So, does Trump have any chance of winning his trade war with Canada?

The truth is that it’s hard even to figure out what a Trump win would mean in this context. Would it mean Canada agreeing to become the 51st state? That’s not going to happen Would it mean Canada giving up on French as a co-equal language with English? That also won’t happen.

Or would it mean Canada making enough concessions that Trump could at least claim victory? That’s also tricky, because until Trump went on the attack, Canada wasn’t doing anything wrong. It can’t promise to end unfair policies when there basically never were any such policies.

The bottom line is that Trump is going to lose his trade war with Canada as thoroughly as he has lost his shooting war with Iran. But because he won’t face reality, trade with Canada will probably be disrupted until the narcissistic bully in the White House no longer controls trade policy.
 
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no color

Electoral Member
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Would it mean Canada giving up on French as a co-equal language with English? That also won’t happen.
The problem is that French is not on equal footing with English. Bill C-13 passed by Trudeau gives preferential treatment to French speaking Canadians. At the federal level, Bill C-13 affords French speaking minorities in Canada the right to work in and be served in French in Federal institutions where numbers warrant. The law is not reciprocal for English speaking minorities in Canada. Due to Bill C-13, English speaking minorities don’t have rights at the Federal level to be served in and work in English in Quebec where numbers warrant.

Elon Musk exposed Canada for its biased and preferential treatment towards French speaking Canadians at the expense of English speaking Quebeckers. For this and many other reasons, Canada is broken, and many of us no longer trust our government and welcome a takeover from a Country that actually respects individual rights and it’s constitution.

There’s also Bills 96 and 101 in Quebec that literally amount to anti-English hate laws. I’d be fined heavily if I were to hypothetically post an English language billboard in Quebec in violation of my freedom of expression rights. These rights apply to all Canadians.

So, no. English and French ARE NOT on equal footing in Canada.

U.S. Congress is familiar with all of these discriminatory and anti-English hate laws in Quebec as interested parties made sure that members of both the House and Senate received details on the contents of both Bills C-13 and 96.
 
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55Mercury

rigid member
May 31, 2007
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Don't you love how Quebec likes to use the notwithstanding clause of a Constitution that it refused to sign?

In my opinion the fact that they use the notwithstanding clause makes them a de facto signatory to that same Constitution.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
32,871
11,828
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
The problem is that French is not on equal footing with English. Bill C-13 passed by Trudeau gives preferential treatment to French speaking Canadians. At the federal level, Bill C-13 affords French speaking minorities in Canada the right to work in and be served in French in Federal institutions where numbers warrant. The law is not reciprocal for English speaking minorities in Canada. Due to Bill C-13, English speaking minorities don’t have rights at the Federal level to be served in and work in English in Quebec where numbers warrant.

Elon Musk exposed Canada for its biased and preferential treatment towards French speaking Canadians at the expense of English speaking Quebeckers. For this and many other reasons, Canada is broken, and many of us no longer trust our government and welcome a takeover from a Country that actually respects individual rights and it’s constitution.

There’s also Bills 96 and 101 in Quebec that literally amount to anti-English hate laws. I’d be fined heavily if I were to hypothetically post an English language billboard in Quebec in violation of my freedom of expression rights. These rights apply to all Canadians.

So, no. English and French ARE NOT on equal footing in Canada.

U.S. Congress is familiar with all of these discriminatory and anti-English hate laws in Quebec as interested parties made sure that members of both the House and Senate received details on the contents of both Bills C-13 and 96.
Does that change anything though? Steven Harper was able to become Prime Minister without Quebec., but can you name another Prime Minister that managed the same thing in your lifetime?

The Carney government and the Trump administration have spent the last few days trading accusations over which side is to blame for the dramatic collapse of negotiations last week, with each accusing the other of making unacceptable last-minute demands and offering competing accounts of what exactly led to an all-out trade war.

“Declaring "transparency is essential" in that debate, Poilievre has called on Carney to "release the proposed text" so that Canadians can see the American demands that prompted the breakdown in negotiations.

"Canadians deserve to know what is the deal that the prime minister at first planned to accept and then later decided to reject," he said at a news conference in Windsor on Tuesday. "There are no national secrets in that text. It's already been shown to the United States administration.

But Canadian officials are brushing off any suggestion that the failed agreement should be released. On Tuesday, Finance Minister François-Philippe (Frankie Bubbles) Champagne did not directly answer when asked if the government would make all of the details public. "This is probably the most publicly advertised negotiation of a trade agreement I could recall," Champagne told reporters. "So in terms of transparency, I think Canadians have been able to follow that even on a daily basis."🙄

It’s fair for critics to question Ottawa's decision to walk away, the Canadians and the Americans have good reasons not to release detailed terms before a deal gets finalized. "These documents are extremely technical ... you're talking about hundreds, if not thousands, of pages," said Soudas (Stephen Harper’s former Director of communications) whose government negotiated dozens of trade deals. "The moment paper becomes public ... it becomes impossible to reach a deal because everybody has their thing that they say, 'No, you can't do that,' or, 'Yes, you have to do this.'"

Carney has said last-minute demands from the Trump administration included limiting Canada's ability to strike trade deals with other countries, exempting heavy-duty Canadian trucks from auto tariff relief, and taking aim at rules boosting French content online. However, American officials have denied it was them who derailed the agreement. U.S. Trade Representative Jamieson Greer told CNBC on Monday that Canada's negotiators were offered "the best access to the United States of any country in the world" but "they wanted to retain their sovereignty more."

Anyway, here’s news from India:
(YouTube & Trump Is Bullying Canada. But America Could Get Hurt Too |The Palki Sharma Show |India Global Review)
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Three moves in the last week have exposed the limits of Donald Trump’s economic bullying. The US slapped 50% tariffs on another $20bn of Canadian goods – then threatened the same rate on the cars, trucks, parts and steel that America Inc depends on. On Monday, the Treasury secretary, Scott Bessent, menaced Iran’s trading partners with exclusion from the US financial network, hoping that coercion can deliver what months of war have not. And as the costs of war, tariffs and pro-billionaire tax cuts helped send US bond yields higher, the Treasury stepped in to tame long-term rates. These are not contradictory policies but a gamble: that US economic power can be repeatedly weaponised without reducing others’ willingness to depend on it.

Nations hold one another’s currencies partly because they trust the political relationship. Mr Trump is testing what happens when they don’t. The trade war with Canada is economically stupid and legally dubious. In 2025, the Trump tariffs amounted to an average tax increase of $1,000 per US household. More than a quarter of Canadian exports to the US are now subject to significant tariffs or threatened with tougher ones. Ottawa’s retaliation will start in September. North American production has been organised around such trade flows and tariffs will make both Canadian and US manufacturing more expensive, not less.

Why Canada? Washington has largely given up trying to change China’s economic model. Canada is seen as a soft target. Mr Trump picks on a friendly neighbour because that is what bullies do. This cannot go on. American economic power depends on other countries wanting to remain in a system the US dominates. Mr Trump thinks their dependence is his weapon. The more often he uses it against them, the harder they should look for the exit.
Donald Trump was determined to have his way with Iran only to find that Iran wasn’t willing to bend to his commands. Then he tried the same technique – demands, tough talk, threats of punishment – with Canada only to find the same result. The stunning break in trade negotiations, which Mr. Trump had signalled were on the verge of settlement – much like the negotiations with Iran, which he repeatedly also said were nearing a happy resolution – grafted the U.S. President’s Middle Eastern frustration onto a North American landscape.

Indeed, there is a “Groundhog Day” element to the two conflicts, one military, the other economic. In both cases, negotiations are suspended. In both cases, at issue is a second country’s sovereignty and dignity.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
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Who is the U.S. ?
After the newest new Trump tariffs were imposed, California Gov Gavin Newsom – who is a Democrat – quickly took to social media to condemn the move, saying “What the actual fuck are we doing?”
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Newsom says Trump is “creating a lot of political pressure” for members of the Republican Party. “Imagine the phone calls Donald Trump’s receiving from members of his party, not from those condemning him from my party,” Newsom said in an interview with CTV News’ chief political correspondent Vassy Kapelos on Tuesday.

This fall, Trump will face a big test during the U.S. midterm elections. The midterms happen midway through a four-year presidential election cycle and could change the balance of political power in Washington. Multiple American polls currently show Trump with the lowest approval rating of his presidency.

When asked directly by Kapelos whether Canadians can expect tariffs to be reversed under Democratic leadership, Newsom said he “can’t guarantee that but I can guarantee you nothing like this.”

Newsom has not officially declared a presidential run in 2028 but has previously said he would be “lying” if he claimed he was not considering it. His term as California governor ends in January 2027, and he has stated he will decide on a White House bid after the 2026 midterm elections in November.
Trump’s latest order to apply 50 per cent duties on billions of dollars of Canadian imports was bad enough, but his earlier duties on Canadian autos, steel and aluminum back in February 2025 ended confidence in the value of the U.S. signature. Without prior notice or consultation, those actions violated one of the sacred principles of international law — that treaties are to be complied with “in good faith.”
 

55Mercury

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May 31, 2007
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So almost, but not quite, half a century ago, with a minority government, that lasted nine months. I actually forgot about him.
Joe Who?

Yeah, the media certainly played its part in his demise, but the fool didn't help himself either by saying things like "we're a minority government but we're going to rule like we have a majority".
(can you say 'duh'?)
They called it the 18-cent election.
The one election that the original Prime Traitor, Pierre Elliott Trudeau, did not have to lie in to get elected. He simply said "I will not raise the price of gas 18 cents a gallon."
And once elected with a majority by our gullible electorate, proceeded to bring in the metric system, the tooling up of which caused the price of gas to jump by nearly $1.80 per gallon.
That's probably not an exact figure but I did the math back then and it was close to 40 cents a liter which is close enough to $1.80/gallon, a figure I used because it contrasted well with the 18 Cent mark.
 
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Taxslave2

Senate Member
Aug 13, 2022
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Maybe we are all looking at this wrong. There is no doubt the US government is disfunctional, bankrupt, and detached from the current reality. Canada, OTH has been in that position for well over a decade, so we have some experience to look back on.
Perhaps instead of tariffs and trade war and various non productive protectionism and the 51st state thing, we look at NA along the lines of the EU? We have arbitrary borders that align us with neighbours that don't have as much in common as we do with neighbouring US states. FOr instance BC, Washington, Oregon, Northern Idaho, and perhaps Montana have much more in common with each other than with the rest of either country. This area has had many discussions about forming Cascadia for decades. All three have socialist governments that have been living high off the avails of capitalism 50 years or more.
The US of course would lose a great deal of military power if it was no longer a country but a trading block. I don't know if that would be good or bad.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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Both buffoons in their own right.
Then, assuming that we (Canada) don’t get crushed like a bug:

“When European Union head Ursula von der Leyen sat alongside Donald Trump at his Turnberry golf resort in Scotland last year, she promised Europeans that accepting a blanket 15 per cent U.S. tariff on EU exports would buy the continent "predictability and stability."
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Some critics now see the trade deal as a one-sided capitulation that instead paved the way for an ongoing cycle of American economic coercion. First came U.S. efforts to reclassify certain European industrial goods to impose higher tariffs. Now, a fresh battle has emerged over European efforts to levy a digital services tax on U.S. tech giants — a dispute that echoes Washington's recent attempts to dictate tax terms to Ottawa.

No sooner was the Turnberry deal ratified by the European Parliament than Trump was on Truth Social, threatening to override the entire accord by slapping 100 per cent tariffs on any European nation that implements or expands tech taxes.
Then back on the homefront, in Canada, Saskatchewan and Alberta did not pull American booze off of store shelves, letting their provincial citizens be adults and decide for themselves if they want to buy it or not….And I don’t think many were.
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I get it I guess? Solidarity and such, but if it’s on this shelves and almost nobody is buying it…putting a large tariff on it accomplishes what again?
U.S. President Donald Trump says his country does not need Canada. But every day, roughly 4 million barrels of Canadian crude oil flow south, helping fuel American cars, trucks and airplanes and supply U.S. industry. And oil is only the beginning.
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Canada also supplies aluminum, potash to U.S. farms and parts for an auto industry built on both sides of the border. “WE DON’T NEED CANADA, THEY NEED US!” Trump posted this week, repeating his long-running claim.
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Yet Trump has imposed a 50% tariff on Canadian aluminum while acknowledging this week that the United States badly needs the metal.“This country desperately needs aluminum,” Trump said. “We don’t have it. We get it all from Canada for the most part, and we need it badly.”

The contradiction underscores how deeply the two economies remain intertwined — and how much could be at stake if Trump’s trade war reaches more of the energy, materials and supply chains that the U.S. still relies on Canada to provide.

Canada is the second-largest U.S. trading partner after Mexico, and energy is at the heart of that relationship. The two countries exchanged about $872 billion in goods and services last year. Canadian crude imports equal nearly 20% of total U.S. petroleum consumption, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, part of the Department of Energy.

Daniel Béland, a political science professor at McGill University, said Trump’s claim that the U.S. doesn’t need Canada is “absolutely false,” citing U.S. reliance on Canadian oil and natural gas and deeply integrated industries such as autos.

Much of Canada’s crude flows to Midwest refineries built to process its heavy oil into gasoline, diesel and jet fuel. Energy also explains much of the U.S. trade deficit with Canada, which Trump frequently cites as evidence of an unfair relationship with a nation that’s about 1/10th the population of America.

The White House this week portrayed the relationship in starkly negative terms, saying Canada had taken roughly $50 billion a year from the U.S. over the past decade. Much of that gap reflects U.S. purchases of Canadian energy, which helps power the U.S. economy. And Canada’s heavy crude typically trades at a discount (call it the Friends discount?) to U.S. benchmark oil, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. Asian buyers do not get the same heavy discount that the U.S. receives; instead, oil exported to Asia via the Pacific is priced closer to global benchmarks like Brent or Middle Eastern markers, minus varying marine shipping costs…so…?
United States Trade Representative Jamieson Greer has stated on several occasions that if there is further Canadian retaliation, the Trump administration will not sit idly by and take it.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
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We do have a highly lucrative resource that I think its time to exploit. All of Southwestern US needs it badly and it doesn't need to be delivered that far south of the 49th. The benefits for both nations instantly.
But…but if we do take something like your example of “water” and put an export fee on it, or potash or uranium or steel or aluminum or hydroelectric power or what have you…would the Trump administration use that as finally having a real excuse and not the made up shit they’ve been using for the last 18 months…to intervene into Canada (the bottom 300kms of it anyway, with the odd spike for things like Fort Mac, militarily?
The North American Free Trade Agreement struck in 1987 forbid any export taxes on any goods traded between Canada, the U.S. and Mexico — a clause that was maintained under the current Canada-U.S.-Mexico Agreement…that Trump doesn’t want to renew. The negotiations between the American and Canadian sides fell apart because they weren’t really a negotiation in the first place. The list of demands that emerged in the final hours included concessions that have nothing to do with business and more to do with subservience. The American demands were so extreme that they amounted less to a proposal for trade than to terms of surrender.

Canada and the United States have a free trade agreement. The Trump administration wants to violate it by hitting Canada with a bunch of tariffs. We don’t want that. The free trade agreement was negotiated by President Donald Trump, signed by President Trump, praised by President Trump and ratified by the U.S. Congress. It says that almost everything that crosses our shared border will do so tariff free. Because it’s a free trade agreement.

Though almost all of Trump’s tariffs so far violate USMCA/CUSMA/TMEC, and his most recent ones haven’t faced a court challenge yet, they will also most likely be shot down also, but that could be months or years from now, so short term that doesn’t help anything. The trade war has begun in earnest. America’s economy is roughly 12 times the size of Canada. They can hurt us a whole lot more than we can hurt them. That’s just a fact.

The Americans demanded full control over Canada’s ability to tariff other countries. Our trade policy would not be our own. We would be, in effect, a colony. We don’t want that either. Washington demanded that Canada sign papers saying that we’re okay with the tariffs slapped on us over the last 18 months – even though those violate the letter and spirit of the free trade agreement. If Canada didn’t agree, the Trump administration said it would not only keep all of the existing, treaty-violating tariffs, it would also tack on a new 50-per-cent tariff on another $28-billion of Canadian exports. Those new tariffs are now in effect.
 

spaminator

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Oct 26, 2009
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This below sounds so familiar somehow…
Trump's threat to rename Lake Ontario comes after he changed the ⁠name of the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America last year…in his own mind anyway.

Days after taking office, Trump II imposed steep tariffs on Canadian goods. His supposed economic rationale was nonsensical, and I immediately argued it was a “dominance display.” Canada’s is a relatively small economy that relies heavily on selling to the U.S. market. Trump believed he could make an example of Canada, forcing it to grovel, possibly even bullying it into becoming the 51st state.

“Two years ago, the idea of a trade war between Canada and the United States would have seemed absurd. Canada was our closest ally, a nation whose soldiers have fought and died alongside American troops in many wars, up to and including Afghanistan. Most of us speak more or less the same language. And we’ve had free-trade agreements with Canada since 1988, the most recent version having been signed by none other than U.S. President Donald Trump.

A clear lesson from a year and a half of Trumpian trade war is that when trade conflicts become extreme, access to crucial imports becomes more important than the ability to export to another country’s markets. Trump’s tariffs on China have been little more than an inconvenience to China's economy — but Chinese threats to cut off exports of rare-earth minerals represent an existential threat to Western technology industries.

An all out trade war would create a lot of pain in the U.S. in addition to inflicting severe damage on the Canadian economy. And all indications are that the Canadians are far more willing to bear the pain of a trade war than Americans are, especially given the great majority of Americans are already dissatisfied with Trump’s economic management. Canada has “escalation dominance” — the ability to retaliate to every U.S. action with an even more damaging counter-action, but to what end? Despite Trump’s best efforts, only a minority of Republicans — and nobody else — has been persuaded that the Canadians are acting badly. On the other side, Trump has managed to convince Canadians of all political stripes that the U.S. can’t be trusted.
its official now. :rolleyes: :(
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
32,871
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Regina, Saskatchewan
its official now. :rolleyes: :(
I’m not sure how official that really is, outside of Trumps MAGA-Stan with their cartographer in chief.
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The renaming of the Gulf of Mexico to the "Gulf of America" is official only for the U.S. federal government and does not have any international recognition. I’m still waiting on the renaming Lake Michigan into Lake Epstein.
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Trump, speaking in the Oval Office after signing the order, took the opportunity to once again criticize Canada’s trade policies and leadership but insisted he loves the country (?) and that renaming Lake Ontario was not about sending a message.🙄 Lake Ontario appeared on maps more than a century before the U.S. declared independence and long before there was a province called Ontario, but it’s probably just a coincidence.
 

bob the dog

Council Member
Aug 14, 2020
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"The name "Ontario" is derived from the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) word "oniatarí:io," which means "lake of shining waters," and it predates European settlement in the region. The exact date of the original naming is not specified, but it has been in use since before the 17th century."

The name Ontario predates Canada
 
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