The stratified heavens: the gaseous layers of the stratosphere?

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
113
Regina, SK
If you truly believe in God you will not dare reviling Him and will certainly fear Him.
I don't believe in any god or gods, but if when I die I find myself face to face with your version of him, I'll call him out as a liar, a bully, a cheat, a fraud, and an unmitigated bastard. What could he do to me at that point that'd make things any worse for me, condemn me for eternity plus a week? I'm already condemned for all time according to you, there's nothing more to lose, so he's going to hear about what a dick I think he is for doing that to me.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
I don't believe in any god or gods, but if when I die I find myself face to face with your version of him, I'll call him out as a liar, a bully, a cheat, a fraud, and an unmitigated bastard. What could he do to me at that point that'd make things any worse for me, condemn me for eternity plus a week? I'm already condemned for all time according to you, there's nothing more to lose, so he's going to hear about what a dick I think he is for doing that to me.
I would try everything in my power to kill the bastard before he can pronounce his sentence. But the concept of such a god is completely foreign to me so I know that will never happen. I'm more like AnnaG - the gods just don't give a damn about all these pesky little, self indulgent carbon based units.
 

eanassir

Time Out
Jul 26, 2007
3,099
9
38
Nice; I'm condemned because I don't believe as you do. Also typical of your massive ignorance.

You are not condemned because you don't believe as I do; you are condemned because you don't believe in God alone and in His Quran.

The moon is not spherical because it was once hot and liquid,

I did not say it was liquid; I said it wasn't solid at the start.

it's spherical (approximately) because it's large enough that its gravitational potential overwhelms the rigidity of the rocks it's made from.

Who says the things were like you describe?

Spinning doesn't make things spherical, in the extreme it makes them disk-shaped, and in lesser circumstances it makes them bulge at the equator.

About spherical if the object is not solidified yet; in addition to the possibility of changes in the axis of spinning, if the object is not regular at the start.

I'm not hindering anyone from the Quran, anybody who wants to can read it. I'm just offering the well-founded and readily defensible opinion that as a source of scientific information it's worse than useless, it's actively misleading.

You acted like the Pharisees to Jesus: hindering his words like the rock in the fountain: neither have you drunk, nor let others drink. That is by asserting the notion: the Quran is old and non-sense and not agree with the claimed science.
As in the Gospel according to Matthew 23: 14

"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men; for you don't enter in yourselves, neither do you allow those who are entering in to enter"
 

eanassir

Time Out
Jul 26, 2007
3,099
9
38
Whatever I say to them they will increase in their blasphemy and disbelief; therefore I shall leave them be for a while, after having warned them against the atheism and idolatry.


This is according to the Quran 51: 54-55

فَتَوَلَّ عَنْهُمْ فَمَا أَنتَ بِمَلُومٍ ..الخ

The explanation:
(So turn away from them [O Mohammed, and migrate to Yathrib: the Medina]; you will not be reproached [for leaving them after you have already conveyed the message to them.]

And admonish [others]; for the admonition benefits the believers.)


 

eanassir

Time Out
Jul 26, 2007
3,099
9
38
I don't believe in any god or gods, but if when I die I find myself face to face with your version of him, I'll call him out as a liar, a bully, a cheat, a fraud, and an unmitigated bastard. What could he do to me at that point that'd make things any worse for me, condemn me for eternity plus a week? I'm already condemned for all time according to you, there's nothing more to lose, so he's going to hear about what a dick I think he is for doing that to me.


There is a joke here:
Someone came to a restaurant and said to them: Give me food freely, or I shall do like my father.
So they gave him food freely without payment.
Then he repeated that many times; then one of the workers in the restaurant said to him: We shall not give you food freely; so what is that your father did?
He said: He slept that night hungry without food.

So if you return to your True Master, then in case you stay stuck to your disbelief, He will not speak to you or look at the disbeliever with mercy.

As in the Quran 3: 77

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَشْتَرُونَ بِعَهْدِ اللّهِ وَأَيْمَانِهِمْ ثَمَنًا قَلِيلاً أُوْلَئِكَ لاَ خَلاَقَ لَهُمْ فِي الآخِرَةِ وَلاَ يُكَلِّمُهُمُ اللّهُ وَلاَ يَنظُرُ إِلَيْهِمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَلاَ يُزَكِّيهِمْ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ

The explanation:
(Those that sell God's covenant, and their oaths, for a little price:
[they] will have no portion [in Paradise] in the afterlife;
God shall not speak to them [to congratulate them, because they will not enter into Paradise,]
neither look [with mercy] on them on the Doomsday,
neither will He purify them [from sins]
and there will be for them [in Hell] a painful chastisement.)


But His angels will speak to them with reproach, so speak at that time whatever you claim that you will speak. Moreover, they cannot speak but they may talk in whispering.


As in the Quran 77: 35-36

هذا يَوْمُ لا يَنْطِقُون . ولا يُؤْذَنُ لَهُمْ فَيَعْتَذِرُون

The explanation:
(This is the day when they cannot utter [any audible word,]
Nor are they permitted [to talk] so they may apologize.)

They haven't the ability of utterance and articulation because they are ethereal souls; moreover, they are not allowed to do so in order that they may then apologize.


The speaking and the uttering
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
Like many Christians, you Muslims seem to be only concerned with saving your own sorry asses. What a shallow and self centered way of being on this planet if everything you do is with the expectation of reward.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
113
Regina, SK
You are not condemned because you don't believe as I do; you are condemned because you don't believe in God alone and in His Quran.
I don't see any significant difference there.
I did not say it was liquid; I said it wasn't solid at the start.
Fine, call it a mass of unconsolidated material then. You're still wrong.
Who says the things were like you describe? About spherical if the object is not solidified yet; in addition to the possibility of changes in the axis of spinning, if the object is not regular at the start.
It's fairly elementary physics. In a group of gravitating particles, they all move toward the centre of mass, and a sphere is the shape that minimizes the average distance from the centre for all the particles. Changes in the spin axis are no more or less likely before or after consolidation, because of the conservation laws.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
Because He is the True Monarch; and His servants below His throne rejoicing in Paradise and fear of Him when He is above them.

As in the Quran 16: 50 about the angels in Paradise or the kingdom of heavens:
يَخَافُونَ رَبَّهُم مِّن فَوْقِهِمْ وَيَفْعَلُونَ مَا يُؤْمَرُونَ
The explanation:
(They fear their Lord above them, and they do what they are commanded.)
If this god was full of mercy and love, then why would anyone need to fear it?
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
No of course, if it is hot and not solid to start with, it will be spherical when it will spin.
Why? If you heat things up it makes them spin? Cooling them off makes them stop spinning? Why? Show us why.
I can tell you if something is spinning and it gets hot enough it will pancake.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
Could it be that his very limited comprehension of the English language makes his translations of Hilly's rather radical interpretation of the Quran incomprehensible and his attempts to explain his scientific understanding equally incomprehensible? I say this because no matter how much I read of his translations and how hard I try to understand what it says, I find it completely unintelligible. It makes absolutely no sense to me.
That occurred to me months ago but I dismissed the idea. I am pretty sure that the intelligence to question is lacking and as eannasir has been programmed like a good little robot, all he can do is regurgitate the dogma by rote without actually thinking about what he's saying. We are expecting a lump of rock to be something other than a lump of rock, I suspect.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Nobody has ever seen an accretion disc, it is mythological nonsense. Nobody has ever seen a group of particles move toward a center of mass whose particles havn't created yet and never can, soon as any spin happens away they go. Mass ejections from Bennet or Z pinches tend to the spherical.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
I don't believe in any god or gods, but if when I die I find myself face to face with your version of him, I'll call him out as a liar, a bully, a cheat, a fraud, and an unmitigated bastard. What could he do to me at that point that'd make things any worse for me, condemn me for eternity plus a week? I'm already condemned for all time according to you, there's nothing more to lose, so he's going to hear about what a dick I think he is for doing that to me.
Before that face-to-face meeting you reference do these other parameters have any effect on your prepared speech (which can be altered up until that very moment)?
You need to be made alive again in order to be face-to-face. By way of introduction, death is just how many meet Christ, at best that is death and sleep and at worst hell is 1,000 years. Both groups are face-to-face with the one who sent 'their killer' at Judgement Day. Calling God names doesn't rate death and torment, delight in causing pain and suffering to another person is enough to get a person torment added to their 'stay'. Much as you dislike the idea that 'act of kindness' keeps them from qualifying for the lake which is a much worse punishment. Say you have been given the worse route and you are given 1,000 years to practice what you are going to say once you are face-to-face. That is enough to set your mood, the place God has chosen to give you that opportunity is only after the ringleader Satan has been punished. Since you are from a line of long dead ancestors you have to wait your turn and what they have to say to God is heard by every-body there and eventually you get your turn and there may or may not be anybody standing behind you. It could be no-one if from that point on if all your children would have been believers they would be in the 'bleachers' already. So now the place of that first meeting is know no sense letting your appearance remain unknown.
Re:7:9: ... before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

I would think in all likelyhood you will be doing some revisions before you say anything.

I would try everything in my power to kill the bastard before he can pronounce his sentence. But the concept of such a god is completely foreign to me so I know that will never happen. I'm more like AnnaG - the gods just don't give a damn about all these pesky little, self indulgent carbon based units.

Then you would not even be 'pesky' perhaps more a particle of dust floating around a banquet where the 'quest' are acting much like hungry and thirsty Vikings after a long day of war in which much blood of others was shed. A speck of dust that does not escape detection of their keen eyes. What are you going to say about the one they 'work for'? (IMWITHHIM is the password) They already have you name, know the little I do about you they would pass you by and continue on hunting the ones described in Re:16.

Joe:2:6:
Before their face the people shall be much pained:
all faces shall gather blackness.
Joe:2:7:
They shall run like mighty men;
they shall climb the wall like men of war;
and they shall march every one on his ways,
and they shall not break their ranks:
Joe:2:8:
Neither shall one thrust another;
they shall walk every one in his path:
and when they fall upon the sword,
they shall not be wounded.
Joe:2:9:
They shall run to and fro in the city;
they shall run upon the wall,
they shall climb up upon the houses;
they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
Joe:2:10:
The earth shall quake before them;
the heavens shall tremble:
the sun and the moon shall be dark,
and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

You will have to suffer meeting Christ face-to-face as described in Re:10

Re:10:2:
And he had in his hand a little book open:
and he set his right foot upon the sea,
and his left foot on the earth,

Now you get to say those things in a face-to-face setting, same question I gave Dex, would you change anything and if yes, why promote something as fact (what you would say) when those words cannot be determined before hand.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
Before that face-to-face meeting you reference do these other parameters have any effect on your prepared speech (which can be altered up until that very moment)?
You need to be made alive again in order to be face-to-face. By way of introduction, death is just how many meet Christ, at best that is death and sleep and at worst hell is 1,000 years. Both groups are face-to-face with the one who sent 'their killer' at Judgement Day. Calling God names doesn't rate death and torment, delight in causing pain and suffering to another person is enough to get a person torment added to their 'stay'. Much as you dislike the idea that 'act of kindness' keeps them from qualifying for the lake which is a much worse punishment. Say you have been given the worse route and you are given 1,000 years to practice what you are going to say once you are face-to-face. That is enough to set your mood, the place God has chosen to give you that opportunity is only after the ringleader Satan has been punished. Since you are from a line of long dead ancestors you have to wait your turn and what they have to say to God is heard by every-body there and eventually you get your turn and there may or may not be anybody standing behind you. It could be no-one if from that point on if all your children would have been believers they would be in the 'bleachers' already. So now the place of that first meeting is know no sense letting your appearance remain unknown.
Re:7:9: ... before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

I would think in all likelyhood you will be doing some revisions before you say anything.



Then you would not even be 'pesky' perhaps more a particle of dust floating around a banquet where the 'quest' are acting much like hungry and thirsty Vikings after a long day of war in which much blood of others was shed. A speck of dust that does not escape detection of their keen eyes. What are you going to say about the one they 'work for'? (IMWITHHIM is the password) They already have you name, know the little I do about you they would pass you by and continue on hunting the ones described in Re:16.

Joe:2:6:
Before their face the people shall be much pained:
all faces shall gather blackness.
Joe:2:7:
They shall run like mighty men;
they shall climb the wall like men of war;
and they shall march every one on his ways,
and they shall not break their ranks:
Joe:2:8:
Neither shall one thrust another;
they shall walk every one in his path:
and when they fall upon the sword,
they shall not be wounded.
Joe:2:9:
They shall run to and fro in the city;
they shall run upon the wall,
they shall climb up upon the houses;
they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
Joe:2:10:
The earth shall quake before them;
the heavens shall tremble:
the sun and the moon shall be dark,
and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

You will have to suffer meeting Christ face-to-face as described in Re:10

Re:10:2:
And he had in his hand a little book open:
and he set his right foot upon the sea,
and his left foot on the earth,

Now you get to say those things in a face-to-face setting, same question I gave Dex, would you change anything and if yes, why promote something as fact (what you would say) when those words cannot be determined before hand.
Cute speech but if you had read what Dexter said, you'd have noticed the "if" in the first sentence. From what I have read from Dexter, that "if" is purely hypothetical as he doesn't seem to think he'll ever get a chance at meeting a god - ANY god. That's his assumption and it is the opposite of your assumption that there are gods and your favorite one is better than the others.
My assumption, and it's based on a lot of actual evidence rather than words from a book, is that gods (if they exist) just don't give a damn so they are as indifferent towards humans as I am about them. If that is the case, there's no rational reason why they'd expend any energy sorting out the good people from the bad people in some future life rather than now, especially if they were truly concerned about humans that are good. It's ridiculous to think that one would wait until after some a$$hole had raped and maimed a 8 yr old girl before deciding they were bad if they knew it all to begin with. That speaks of pure incompetence if the god was actually paying any attention to what was going on and actually could do something about it.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
Surely you don't really expect me to take that post seriously. You know perfectly well I think that stuff's a crock.
Ditto!

Mhz, I said what I said to watch you and eanassir get your panties in a knot. I also said that it would never happen because I know your god doesn't exist.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Cute speech but if you had read what Dexter said, you'd have noticed the "if" in the first sentence.
I'm quite aware of the loopholes Dexter leaves himself.

My assumption, and it's based on a lot of actual evidence rather than words from a book, is that gods (if they exist) just don't give a damn so they are as indifferent towards humans as I am about them.
Such as you have asked them to appear and ...... you're still waiting. You are so indifferent to the subject of God that you visit every thread that involves the mere hint that God will be the subject of the posts. lol

If that is the case, there's no rational reason why they'd expend any energy sorting out the good people from the bad people in some future life rather than now, especially if they were truly concerned about humans that are good.
Where did you get that from?? The times in the Bible where only the virgin girls were saved did not include rape at any age let alone at the age of 8. Don't you ever get tired of spreading false facts. I am not sure at what age a girl becomes a 'woman' at but a boy becomes a man at the age of 20. If this is how somebody of marrying age is treated then anybody younger cannot be humbled without bring a death sentence on the male raper.

De:21:10:
When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies,
and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands,
and thou hast taken them captive,
De:21:11:
And seest among the captives a beautiful woman,
and hast a desire unto her,
that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;
De:21:12:
Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house;
and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
De:21:13:
And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her,
and shall remain in thine house,
and bewail her father and her mother a full month:
and after that thou shalt go in unto her,
and be her husband,
and she shall be thy wife.
De:21:14:
And it shall be,
if thou have no delight in her,
then thou shalt let her go whither she will;
but thou shalt not sell her at all for money,
thou shalt not make merchandise of her,
because thou hast humbled her.

It's ridiculous to think that one would wait until after some a$$hole had raped and maimed a 8 yr old girl before deciding they were bad if they knew it all to begin with.
If all thoughts of acts like that do not happen after His return that should tell you how God feels about such things, that you want Him to stop such acts before He is here to do it shows some shallow thinking on your part.

That speaks of pure incompetence if the god was actually paying any attention to what was going on and actually could do something about it.
If you read the Bible then you know something is to be done about it, getting impatient because it doesn't follow your 'way is your burden which seems to be more than you can handle.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Surely you don't really expect me to take that post seriously. You know perfectly well I think that stuff's a crock.
Yes I know that, was the picture I gave valid according to the Bible or not? It would not be an admission that you have mended your ways, it is an admission that you understand the way God has determined (in writing) how things will play out.

Ditto!
Mhz, I said what I said to watch you and eanassir get your panties in a knot. I also said that it would never happen because I know your god doesn't exist.
Oh, you are so tricky. Take comfort in that as long as you can.
BTW telling God "You can't make me." has worked for how many people so far just on the going to the grave thing? Choose not to die, see how well that works out.

Isa:28:15:
Because ye have said,
We have made a covenant with death,
and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us:
for we have made lies our refuge,
and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Isa:28:18:
And your covenant with death shall be disannulled,
and your agreement with hell shall not stand;
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through,
then ye shall be trodden down by it.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
113
Regina, SK
Yes I know that, was the picture I gave valid according to the Bible or not?
Not. You persist in believing certain apocalyptic parts of the Bible are about our future, when they're about events that were current at the time they were written, and taking it all literally.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
I'm quite aware of the loopholes Dexter leaves himself.
And completely blind to any good points he has.

Such as you have asked them to appear and ...... you're still waiting. You are so indifferent to the subject of God that you visit every thread that involves the mere hint that God will be the subject of the posts. lol
Wrong, not every thread. But even then, I am indifferent towards gods, not people or what people say about gods. There's a big difference there.

Where did you get that from??
It's called logic. Why procrastinate? If you know something in your fridge is good and another thing is bad now, why wait till later before you chuck out the bad thing?
The times in the Bible where only the virgin girls were saved did not include rape at any age let alone at the age of 8. Don't you ever get tired of spreading false facts.
What false facts? What facts?
I am not sure at what age a girl becomes a 'woman' at but a boy becomes a man at the age of 20.
Really? Show me the science in this claim, please.
If this is how somebody of marrying age is treated then anybody younger cannot be humbled without bring a death sentence on the male raper.

De:21:10:
When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies,
and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands,
and thou hast taken them captive,
De:21:11:
And seest among the captives a beautiful woman,
and hast a desire unto her,
that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;
De:21:12:
Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house;
and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
De:21:13:
And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her,
and shall remain in thine house,
and bewail her father and her mother a full month:
and after that thou shalt go in unto her,
and be her husband,
and she shall be thy wife.
De:21:14:
And it shall be,
if thou have no delight in her,
then thou shalt let her go whither she will;
but thou shalt not sell her at all for money,
thou shalt not make merchandise of her,
because thou hast humbled her.


If all thoughts of acts like that do not happen after His return that should tell you how God feels about such things, that you want Him to stop such acts before He is here to do it shows some shallow thinking on your part.
Then you admit that this god of yours is actually not all powerful and knows all things. Cool. It's a start.


If you read the Bible then you know something is to be done about it, getting impatient because it doesn't follow your 'way is your burden which seems to be more than you can handle.
Nah. It's just a topic of conversation. I am simply pointing out the fallacies in these beliefs.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
BTW telling God "You can't make me." has worked for how many people so far just on the going to the grave thing? Choose not to die, see how well that works out.
Science is still working on it. Be patient.