The rights of the Unborn still a "hot potato"!

[dancing-loon]

Tories abandon 'unborn victims' bill

Justice Minister Rob Nicholson announced Monday that the government will draft a new bill to replace Bill C-484, the Unborn Victims of Crime Act, so that it closes the debate about fetal rights and focuses instead on penalizing criminals who harm pregnant women.
........
"We've heard criticism from across the country, including representatives of the medical community, that Mr. Epp's bill as presently drafted could be interpreted as instilling fetal rights.

Let me be clear. Our government will not reopen the debate on abortion," Mr. Nicholson said. "For this reason ... I'm announcing that the government will introduce legislation that will punish criminals who commit violence against pregnant women, but do so in a way that leaves no room for the introduction of fetal rights."

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/.../National/home
---------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder how they will wind themselves around the fact that, when you harm a pregnant woman it is not the same as harming a non-pregnant woman?
Lawyers....:roll:
Now that Morgentaler has been honored for his fine job, it would be in bad taste to now start debating the right to life of an unborn baby. I agree,....they should wait a couple of years:-(

 

[quandary121]

when you harm a pregnant woman it is not the same as harming a non-pregnant woman?

ANY ONE WHO DOES THIS SHOULD BE TAKEN OUT SIDE AND GIVEN A KICKING IMO

but do so in a way that leaves no room for the introduction of fetal rights

Why not surly the foetuses rights are paramount,seeing that it is vulnerable to laws and dangers, that it has no way of voicing its opinion against .

Pro-abortion advocates have denounced it for giving the fetus some human rights. Last week, the Canadian Medical Association voted to oppose the bill

Typical they can have rights but someone who cannot voice its opinion cannot .f**king unbelievable

 

[Nuggler]

:angry3:...............The rights of the Unborn still a "hot potato"!

Only in some people's minds.

And they obviously don't have a lot to think about. (nor much to do it with)

Now, if we can push that a wee bit harder, we could have an actual plank in a Con election.

Saves all that thinking about health and welfare, doctor availability, education funding, funding for anything else but bible school, maybe the lost 1000's of jobs to Mexico/China, anything else but actually running the ****ing country.

Last I knew, the rights of the unborn were not a necessary priority in Canada, given the fact we don't normally abuse "the unborn"..................but we gotta plan how to get rid of all them "abortionists"....................oooooooooooooooooooh All of them!!! The thousands and thousands of "abortionists" just lurking, waiting, to tear an "unborn" from an unsuspecting mother, like when she's asleep or something.

:angry3:**** off

 

[DurkaDurka]

The conservatives should leave this one alone, they are just giving the opposition ammo to go after them with.

 

[Unforgiven]

Has anyone noticed this subtle shift into doing exactly what they say aren't doing, then taking umbrige at the suggestion that they are?

 

[Nuggler]

Has anyone noticed this subtle shift into doing exactly what they say aren't doing, then taking umbrige at the suggestion that they are?

Thought that was just me being paranoid!

8O

 

[Curiosity]

OK I'll bite on this one and ask the membership:

The question in the US is "When does life begin?"

If human rights are to include the unborn child, then that child has rights and is considered human - right?

Or ??? When does life begin?

 

[Praxius]

I feel life begins once you are born, cut from the mother and breathing independantly on your own, no longer leeching off of the resources, blood and energy of the mother..... to me, that's either a symbiosis or a parasite (take your pick) but certainly not something I would considder as 100% human, let alone individual.

When it comes to abortion in this aspect, the health and well being of the mother (the one currently living) has rights over a fetus.

As it stands for the explinations between a regular woman and a pregnant woman, the pregnant woman has the active potiential of bringing life into the world and perhaps futher contributing to society, where if they are attacked in some fashion, and the fetus dies, additional penalties should be applied, however if the pregnant woman wishes to terminate the pregnancy, then that is a willing operation to cease the production of the fetus, and therefore, rights are still met.

To me, one has to approach this subject without emotional appeal in order to come to a balanced conclusion. In what they plan to do with this legislation, covers both those who wish to have an abortion, and also protects those who wish to have a child.

Seems fair to me.

 

[Nuggler]

.

Quote Praxius"""To me, one has to approach this subject without emotional appeal in order to come to a balanced conclusion. In what they plan to do with this legislation, covers both those who wish to have an abortion, and also protects those who wish to have a child.

Seems fair to me.[/quote]


As long as it is.......fair, that is. You believe it??8O. or did you mean....."If what they plan.....etc"

Jeez, Prax, unborn, abortion, bla bla is already covered under Cdn. law. Any attempt to restart any dialogue in this regard only serves as a door through which the Cons. can shove their "right to life', religiosity, Southern Baptist, Bushy, bullsh!t., and take away ANY rights to their own body women have fought for, for so long.

I don't trust these pontificating Con peckerheads as far as I can throw em.

..........can we spell "smokescreen"?

 

[Curiosity]

Praxius

Thank you - that response fits my thoughts absolutely.

 

[darkbeaver]

OK I'll bite on this one and ask the membership:

The question in the US is "When does life begin?"

If human rights are to include the unborn child, then that child has rights and is considered human - right?

Or ??? When does life begin?

Life dosn't begin, it's a constant throughout the universe. It seems that being born is some kind of threshhold that grants what we call rights automatically. What exactly are those rights and where did we get the franchise for this area of the calaxy. I don't think the question can be answered. Suffering of and for the unborn is part of life regardless.:-(

 

[darkbeaver]

I feel life begins once you are born, cut from the mother and breathing independantly on your own, no longer leeching off of the resources, blood and energy of the mother..... to me, that's either a symbiosis or a parasite (take your pick) but certainly not something I would considder as 100% human, let alone individual.

When it comes to abortion in this aspect, the health and well being of the mother (the one currently living) has rights over a fetus.

As it stands for the explinations between a regular woman and a pregnant woman, the pregnant woman has the active potiential of bringing life into the world and perhaps futher contributing to society, where if they are attacked in some fashion, and the fetus dies, additional penalties should be applied, however if the pregnant woman wishes to terminate the pregnancy, then that is a willing operation to cease the production of the fetus, and therefore, rights are still met.

To me, one has to approach this subject without emotional appeal in order to come to a balanced conclusion. In what they plan to do with this legislation, covers both those who wish to have an abortion, and also protects those who wish to have a child.

Seems fair to me.

In biological terms the unborn dictate the actions of the host organism to the redily observable extent, so in that respect with your scheme of things the not yet human employs the resources of the already human to actualize it's own transitioned form into the corporeal world, I think, approx, perhaps and maybe.:smile:

 

[coldstream]

The fundamental integrity of our society, economy, justice system and freedom hinges on this issue. A society without a comprehension of its future in the lives of its most vulnerable citizens, the unborn, is a society that is annihilating itself. It's not an issue you can sweep under the rug and ignore, it is one that lurks in crevices and attacks with stealth and avengance.

 

[DurkaDurka]

The fundamental integrity of our society, economy, freedom and justice system rests on this issue. A society without a comprehension of its future in the lives of its most vulnerable citizens, the unborn, is a society that is annihilating itself. It's not an issue you can sweep under the carpet and ignore, it is one that lurks in crevices and attacks with stealth and avengance.

I think the immigrants are keeping our birthrate high enough to compensate for the odd abortion.

 

[Praxius]

As long as it is.......fair, that is. You believe it??8O. or did you mean....."If what they plan.....etc"

Jeez, Prax, unborn, abortion, bla bla is already covered under Cdn. law. Any attempt to restart any dialogue in this regard only serves as a door through which the Cons. can shove their "right to life', religiosity, Southern Baptist, Bushy, bullsh!t., and take away ANY rights to their own body women have fought for, for so long.

I don't trust these pontificating Con peckerheads as far as I can throw em.

..........can we spell "smokescreen"?

Well so long as everything remains the same as it currently is, and they don't start this crap of giving human rights to something technically not human yet, then it doesn't matter to me.

I am one who believes the Church and State should remain seperate like Oil and Water, or else everybody's going to be burned in the splash. I was just explaining how it sounded to me and answering a question presented.

I don't trust the Liberals or the Conservatives myself, and I am only speaking for myself.

I didn't like the concept of the Unborn Victims bill, because it does open up the debate, yet again, to the explination of what a fetus is..... the fact that they are switching it up to focus on the pregnant woman, I am all for, because that to me, reduces the ability for the pro-lifers for any suitable argument.... even though all of them so far hasn't been suitable to begin with. (Which was my original concern when they brought this unborn victims bill out in the first place)

 

[dancing-loon]

The fundamental integrity of our society, economy, freedom and justice system rests on this issue. A society without a comprehension of its future in the lives of its most vulnerable citizens, the unborn, is a society that is annihilating itself. It's not an issue you can sweep under the carpet and ignore, it is one that lurks in crevices and attacks with stealth and avengance.

Great statement! Nailed on head!! That should give the pro-abortionists something to think about!

 

[Praxius]

Praxius

Thank you - that response fits my thoughts absolutely.

Anytime... ;-)

 

[dancing-loon]

I think the immigrants are keeping our birthrate high enough to compensate for the odd abortion.

According to Wiki:

Abortion in Canada is not limited by the law. While some non-legal obstacles exist, Canada is one of only a few nations with no legal restrictions on abortions. Regulations and accessibility varies between provinces.

Polls continue to show that a majority of Canadians believe abortion should remain legal in some circumstances (see Opinion polls, below).

Over 110,000 abortions are performed in Canada every year, that represents a ratio of about 30 abortions to every 100 live births.

Odd, isn't it?:roll:

 

[Praxius]

In biological terms the unborn dictate the actions of the host organism to the redily observable extent, so in that respect with your scheme of things the not yet human employs the resources of the already human to actualize it's own transitioned form into the corporeal world, I think, approx, perhaps and maybe.:smile:

In that same argument, so does Cancer.... There are many things that affect the host.... but does that actually make it human?

 

[DurkaDurka]

According to Wiki:Odd, isn't it?:roll:

Gotta love freedom of choice and not having your decisions made for you by the government.:smile: