The palaces in the sky

[gerryh]

The religious leaders [like monks, sages, sheikhs] have cheated people that they will be forgiven and enter Paradise if they love Moses, Jesus or Ali or others; and that these will most certainly intercede for them, because they love them and by their inetecession, they will certainly go to Paradise.

Such religious leaders enhanced the enthusiasm about these servants of God: the prophets and righteous people, until people started to be enthusiastic about Jesus, Moses, Bar Yohaya, Ali and his sons ...etc. And the religious leaders got the high esteem and position and the money.

These impostors: the religious leaders like monks, clergys, sages and rabbis and sheikhs asserted to people that whatever they do, they will go to Paradise and prosperity in the afterlife because they love their patrons, and so the patrons love them and plead God to forgive them and admit them into His mercy.

(It is not according to your vain desires [Muslims] nor the vain desires of the people of the Bible [Jews and Christians];
but anyone who does evil shall be punished accordingly, and shall not find for him beside God any patron or helper.

And anyone who does good works – be it male or female – and being a believer [in God alone without associate or son], they shall enter into Paradise, and shall not be wronged a jot.

And who can be better in compliance [to God] than one who submits himself to God; while being a well-doer and who follows the creed of Abraham, the monotheist; God took Abraham for a loyal friend.)


The above between brackets is the explanation of the Quran 4: 123

لَّيْسَ بِأَمَانِيِّكُمْ وَلا أَمَانِيِّ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ مَن يَعْمَلْ سُوءًا يُجْزَ بِهِ وَلاَ يَجِدْ لَهُ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ وَلِيًّا وَلاَ نَصِيرًا




I see that you are sure more than Jesus himself who cried from the fear of God.

Whatever, believe what you wish. I don't believe because some priest,monk, rabbi, or imam told me. I don't believe because some book has told me. But since, obviously, your entire belief is based on a book(s) rather than your soul, rather than a personal relationship with our Father, I know you won't/can't understand. How unfortunate for you.

 

[Cliffy]

And what you fail to see is that your belief in the Quran and Mohammed and Al Hilly is an enthusiasm. You can try and BS yourself that it isn't, but it is, making you no different than those you condemn. If what you are saying about enthusiasm and associates has any validity, there is only one avenue left to anyone who wants to know god and that is to give up all beliefs in historical figures and books and ask the source directly for guidance. Go into the wilderness and pray for guidance. That is the only option you have left yourself with those beliefs. And that is exactly what I have been advocating all along. If you want to know the truth, go to the Source. Everything else is just someone's opinion.

 

[eanassir]

Whatever, believe what you wish. I don't believe because some priest,monk, rabbi, or imam told me. I don't believe because some book has told me. But since, obviously, your entire belief is based on a book(s) rather than your soul, rather than a personal relationship with our Father, I know you won't/can't understand. How unfortunate for you.

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So you believe according to a personal relationship with your Father; what an assertion. And you don't follow any book or book(s).
So have God [according to your personal relationship with Him] told you this, or do you forge it against God Most Gracious?

And what you fail to see is that your belief in the Quran and Mohammed and Al Hilly is an enthusiasm. You can try and BS yourself that it isn't, but it is, making you no different than those you condemn. If what you are saying about enthusiasm and associates has any validity, there is only one avenue left to anyone who wants to know god and that is to give up all beliefs in historical figures and books and ask the source directly for guidance. Go into the wilderness and pray for guidance. That is the only option you have left yourself with those beliefs. And that is exactly what I have been advocating all along. If you want to know the truth, go to the Source. Everything else is just someone's opinion.

So acquaint us about your guidance after you went to the wilderness, that we may follow your guidance and leave the Quran and Mohammed !?

 

[Cliffy]

So you believe according to a personal relationship with your Father; what an assertion. And you don't follow any book or book(s).
So have God [according to your personal relationship with Him] told you this, or do you forge it against God Most Gracious?



So acquaint us about your guidance after you went to the wilderness, that we may follow your guidance and leave the Quran and Mohammed !?

You are really being silly now, aren't you? You are not supposed to follow anybody. You ask god for your personal guidance. It is a promise in the Bible: Seek and ye shall find, ask and ye shall receive" (or something like that).

The Bible and the Quran are guide books. They point in the direction that you should go. They are not intended to be the end all and be all for everyone. What did Jesus and Mohammed do to gain their wisdom? They went into the wilderness. They spent time by themselves with their creator. You don't need a book, you need an open heart and an open mind. Spirit cannot enter a closed vessel.

 

[eanassir]

Silly Cliffy standing on the cliff and utters his silly words haphazardly.

 

[Cliffy]

Silly Cliffy standing on the cliff and utters his silly words haphazardly.

That is the best you got? Can you challenge what I said without quoting the Quran? Is you mind that locked down?

 

[eanassir]

That is the best you got? Can you challenge what I said without quoting the Quran? Is you mind that locked down?

If one respects me, he then has the right that I should respect him.

==================================================================

Another aya in the Quran 25: 61 about such palaces in heaven or Paradise:
تَبَارَكَ الَّذِي جَعَلَ فِي السَّمَاء بُرُوجًا وَجَعَلَ فِيهَا سِرَاجًا وَقَمَرًا مُّنِيرًا

The explanation:
(Blessed be [God]* Who has placed in heaven palaces, and has placed therein a lamp and a moon giving light.)

* It means: His surplus on you, Mohammed, and on the believers in Paradise, has exceedingly increased.

 

[lone wolf]

So ... with all the airplanes zipping all over the sky, how come one of these invisible palaces has never even made a dent in one of them? If they're above where airplanes can fly, how does anyone breathe?

 

[eanassir]

Kinds of houses and homes in Paradise:
1- Tents: this is given to people who were familiar with living in tents during their Worldly life.
God - be glorified - said in the Quran 55: 72
حُورٌ مَّقْصُورَاتٌ فِي الْخِيَامِ

The explanation:
(Whitish women that dwell in tents.)

This is because people who used to dwell in tents cannot live in houses, and they then feel depressed like the imprisoned.

So ... with all the airplanes zipping all over the sky, how come one of these invisible palaces has never even made a dent in one of them? If they're above where airplanes can fly, how does anyone breathe?

The ethereal paradises are higher than the stratosphere where airplanes fly.

2- palaces: as in the Quran 25: 10
تَبَارَكَ الَّذِي إِن شَاء جَعَلَ لَكَ خَيْرًا مِّن ذَلِكَ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ وَيَجْعَل لَّكَ قُصُورًا

The explanation:
(Blessed be [God's grace on you] Who, if He will, shall assign to you [Mohammed] better than that: gardens underneath which rivers flow, and shall assign to you palaces.)


3- good habitations:
God - be glorified - said in the Quran 9: 72
وَعَدَ اللّهُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتِ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الأَنْهَارُ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا وَمَسَاكِنَ طَيِّبَةً فِي جَنَّاتِ عَدْنٍ وَرِضْوَانٌ مِّنَ اللّهِ أَكْبَرُ ذَلِكَ هُوَ الْفَوْزُ الْعَظِيمُ

The explanation:
(God has [in the Quran] promised to the believers, [both] men and women,

gardens [in the afterlife] – below [the trees of ] which rivers flow, to dwelltherein forever –
and good dwellings in the seven gardens;
and God's goodpleasure will be [to them] greater [than the gardens];

that [prosperity andgood pleasure] is [certainly] the great success [in the afterlife.]

 

[lone wolf]

There are believers ... then there are gullible. I'm not sure this has a category.

 

[eanassir]

Another aya 61: 12 is also about such good dwellings in Paradise:
يَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ ذُنُوبَكُمْ وَيُدْخِلْكُمْ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ وَمَسَاكِنَ طَيِّبَةً فِي جَنَّاتِ عَدْنٍ ذَلِكَ الْفَوْزُ الْعَظِيمُ

The explanation:
([So] He will forgive you your sins
and admit you into Gardens below [the trees of] which rivers flow,
and into good dwellings in the Seven Gardens;

that is the supreme triumph.)

4- A building in paradise better than the palace: it may be like the luxurious apartment:
As in the Quran 25: 75
أُوْلَئِكَ يُجْزَوْنَ الْغُرْفَةَ بِمَا صَبَرُوا وَيُلَقَّوْنَ فِيهَا تَحِيَّةً وَسَلَامًا

The explanation:
(These will be rewarded with a most beautiful building [in Paradise] because they endured patiently, and they will meet therein with greeting [of the angels] and the word of "Peace" [salam] to each other.)

Which is also mentioned in the aya 34: 37
وَمَا أَمْوَالُكُمْ وَلَا أَوْلَادُكُم بِالَّتِي تُقَرِّبُكُمْ عِندَنَا زُلْفَى إِلَّا مَنْ آمَنَ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا فَأُوْلَئِكَ لَهُمْ جَزَاء الضِّعْفِ بِمَا عَمِلُوا وَهُمْ فِي الْغُرُفَاتِ آمِنُونَ

The explanation:
(It is not your [abundant] wealth [eventhough youspent all of it in charity] would bring you to Our neighborhood, nor would yourchildren [eventhough they worked righteous work] have an honorable degreebefore Us [because you are associaters];

excepting the spending of those whobelieve and work righteous [deeds];
theirs will be twofold reward [for theirbelieving and spending],
and they will be secure in lofty mansions [inParadise.])

 

[Cliffy]

If one respects me, he then has the right that I should respect him.

Is it disrespectful to consider you as a brother? You have condemned me to an eternity of suffering because I don't believe the same things as you do. Is that respectful? You are the one who is disrespectful of all other religions and even of your own religion if they do not adhere to your narrow view of Islam.

 

[eanassir]

5- a many storey building, may be like apartments:
As in the Quran 39: 20
لَكِنِ الَّذِينَ اتَّقَوْا رَبَّهُمْ لَهُمْ غُرَفٌ مِّن فَوْقِهَا غُرَفٌ مَّبْنِيَّةٌ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ وَعْدَ اللَّهِ لَا يُخْلِفُ اللَّهُ الْمِيعَادَ

The explanation:
(But for those, who ward off [the punishment of] their Lord, will be lofty blocks of flats [in Paradise] in layers one above another,
below which rivers will flow;
a promise of God [is this]; surely God will never fail the promise.)

Is it disrespectful to consider you as a brother? You have condemned me to an eternity of suffering because I don't believe the same things as you do. Is that respectful? You are the one who is disrespectful of all other religions and even of your own religion if they do not adhere to your narrow view of Islam.

It is not my own garage: God does not admit in His paradise: the atheist, the idolater, the one associating others with God, and those who disbelieve in anyone of His apostles including Mohammed.

 

[earth_as_one]

Actually Cliffy, according to his beliefs you are condemned to an eternity of suffering, because you are a non-believer aka infidel. But you condemn yourself, because you refuse to believe. In this respect, Islam and Christianity are the same. Don't believe? You go to hell.

A wise Inuit Elder was once told about God and Jesus by a Christian missionary. When the missionary finished, the Elder asked about the fate of his ancestors who died without every having a chance to know and believe in God and Jesus. The missionary explained that since they were ignorant of God they were innocent and went straight to heaven. The Inuit Elder then demanded to know, "So why are you telling me about God?!"
:^)

 

[55Mercury]

"So why are you telling me about God?!"

excellent point!

 

[Cliffy]

Actually Cliffy, according to his beliefs you are condemned to an eternity of suffering, because you are a non-believer aka infidel. But you condemn yourself, because you refuse to believe. In this respect, Islam and Christianity are the same. Don't believe? You go to hell.
:^)

Hell will be a busy place since it will be full of Christians and Muslims. They are the only ones who believe in such a place and none of them could possibly live up to the perfection their religions say they must achieve before they can enter paradise. Why would anybody want to believe in those religions when the outcome is obviously not in their favour?

 

[earth_as_one]

I'm agnostic, which is different than an atheist. Atheist believe there is no God, even though they can't prove it. From my viewpoint atheists still have a belief system just like the devoutly religious. Agnostics are fence sitters. We are waiting for proof one way or the other.

Yet I believe freedom of religion is a fundamental human right. Therefore I support eanassir's right to believe you and I are condemned to hell. I have no problem with him saying so, as long as he is polite about it.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Atheist believe there is no God, even though they can't prove it.

Not really. That's the so-called strong atheist position, which most days I think, and I'm sure you'd agree, is logically indefensible. What IS defensible is the weak atheist position, not believing there is a god, principally for lack of evidence to support the claim that there is. That's my position, most days. Sometimes I vacillate a bit over towards the strong position.

 

[SLM]

I'm agnostic, which is different than an atheist. Atheist believe there is no God, even though they can't prove it. From my viewpoint atheists still have a belief system just like the devoutly religious. Agnostics are fence sitters. We are waiting for proof one way or the other.

Yet I believe freedom of religion is a fundamental human right. Therefore I support eanassir's right to believe you and I are condemned to hell. I have no problem with him saying so, as long as he is polite about it.

I consider myself an agnostic as well, but I'm not sure I agree with the fence sitting idea. I don't consider myself to be waiting for any proof one way or another. My viewpoint is that it is the journey that is the important part, not the destination. But maybe that's just semantics.

I do agree about the respect for an individual's belief system and right to express it. All communication, regardless of the content, should always be presented in the most respectful way possible. It has a much better chance of being received with respect that way.

 

[eanassir]

Not really. That's the so-called strong atheist position, which most days I think, and I'm sure you'd agree, is logically indefensible. What IS defensible is the weak atheist position, not believing there is a god, principally for lack of evidence to support the claim that there is. That's my position, most days. Sometimes I vacillate a bit over towards the strong position.

There should be a doer of every act, so who is the doer of this universe?
For any building there should be a builder, who then is the builder of this universe?

Don't say there isn't any; this is insisting on vain claim.

I'm agnostic, which is different than an atheist. Atheist believe there is no God, even though they can't prove it. From my viewpoint atheists still have a belief system just like the devoutly religious. Agnostics are fence sitters. We are waiting for proof one way or the other.

Who is then the maker of this universe? Who inserted all this system and order in this universe?

the journey that is the important part, not the destination.

The destination is the most important: there should be an end as was there a start. The unified system in the entire universe and the application of the same rules everywhere indicates the same Creator and a Wise Maker, and there is a wisdom, so the destination is wise just as the journey is also important.