The discourse of people of Paradise and Hell

[mt_pockets1000]

It's one of those black and white things, worship God or worship Satan, that's it one or the other, don't bitch if you back the wrong one.

Are you absolutely sure you're backing the right one? I sense some doubt there...

 

[eanassir]

God is One.
He is the Same and Eternal that is Unchangeable.
God – be glorified – said in the Quran 112​

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم . قُلْ هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ . اللَّهُ الصَّمَدُ . لَمْ يَلِدْ وَلَمْ يُولَدْ . وَلَمْ يَكُن لَّهُ كُفُوًا أَحَدٌ​

The explanation:
( In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Say [O Mohammed to those Christians who believe in the Trinity]:

"He is God, One [but not three whom you claim to be one.]"

"God is Eternal [and Unchangeable.]"

"Who never begot [anyone], nor was He ever begotten."

"And none [of creatures: neither Jesus nor any other] is equivalent to Him [in managing the universe.]"​

 

[mt_pockets1000]

The Mega cosmic existence of 47 billion Light Years across is God’s pulse, god is every where, in everything of noticeable existence………………
Man may have written the Quran or other biblical literature by other chronological spiritual civilizations, but man did not create the mega cosmos we leave in.

The human perception of what form God is in, is only a perception ………it is not a reality……the mind tends to wander off and look at the chronological existence of this massive ever expending universe and from the big bang to today.

Approximately 13.7 billion years ago

The Reference Frame: BBC HARDtalk with Roger Penrose: before the Big Bang

it leads one to believe that GOD must have been a physicist and was responsible for this great engineered enigma, he must have been under extreme concentration mode to be able and conceder all the necessary elements to start something from so small and become 47 billion light years across in 13.7Billion years, and was he responsible for the existence of a supposedly contracting universe, which led to the big bag?
God is great. No one on this planet has seen his true form. No one……………………But we all know he is there……………..

Socrates, this smacks of pure conjecture. But it's a nice sentiment, if it helps you sleep at night.

 

[L Gilbert]

The probability that gods exist is infintely minute. People are simply attributing human characteristics to the universe. The probability that the universe has human characteristics (anger, love, beards, hands with 4 fingers and a thumb, etc.) is also infinitely minute. If it did have emotions and other characteristics, they probably wouldn't be recognizable by humans.

 

[Niflmir]

The probability that gods exist is infintely minute. People are simply attributing human characteristics to the universe. The probability that the universe has human characteristics (anger, love, beards, hands with 4 fingers and a thumb, etc.) is also infinitely minute. If it did have emotions and other characteristics, they probably wouldn't be recognizable by humans.

People like to contend that life is unfair, I like to interject that only people are unfair. To me, the indifference of the universe to anything is universally fair. Lightning strikes, who? The electrons don't care. They don't seek justice or revenge, richness or poorness, health or sickness. The universe goes on.

To me, being unfair is being spiteful. Wreaking havocful revenge an order of magnitude above which you were wronged. The world just goes on, oblivious to right or wrong.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

... the indifference of the universe to anything is universally fair.

Quite right, but that indifference seems to disturb a lot of people for various reasons, so they invent things like gods and demons and astrological vibrations and quantum consciousness and so on, to make a difference. Humans are great at perceiving purposeful behaviour and patterns where there aren't any. I'd bet that's the greatest single cause of the errors in thinking we all make.

 

[Niflmir]

Epicurus had it figured out a long time ago, it seems. Too bad his philosophy didn't catch on.

 

[MHz]

The probability that gods exist is infintely minute. People are simply attributing human characteristics to the universe. The probability that the universe has human characteristics (anger, love, beards, hands with 4 fingers and a thumb, etc.) is also infinitely minute. If it did have emotions and other characteristics, they probably wouldn't be recognizable by humans.

Does the concept that 'mother earth' can 'sense' if the life that lived on her was healthy and growing (all noises combined would be her voice)or during extinction and near extinction events she would appeared to be 'groaning' not exist. Not that she can influence events one way or another but Earth has life and she is considered to be more fortunate than the planets that are just rock and dust. Enter God then she would have a voice and obey commands. Earthquakes, winds, etc could be ordered up.

 

[eanassir]

repeated and deleted.

 

[eanassir]

Some atheists assert that the probability of God existence is very little, which obviously is contrary to the truth; they in fact say this fallacy without giving any evidence.

 

[eanassir]

Lightning strikes, who? The electrons don't care. They don't seek justice or revenge, richness or poorness, health or sickness. The universe goes on.

This is the difference: we say the electrons and the entire universe goes on according to God's will, without which no movement, no action and nothing will be there.

So the electrons move according to the laws God inserted in the universe, as is the sun rises up from the east, obeying its Lord: the Creator.

People like to contend that life is unfair, I like to interject that only people are unfair. To me, the indifference of the universe to anything is universally fair.

Here is another manifestation of God's grace: the social affairs and individual affairs, which also follow God's laws, and there is the free choice of man to adopt the evil or the righteous way.

God responds and answers the prayer of the obliged in danger and distress, but when he is saved, he will deny.

We have a general observation and impression by people (which is in fact true and real): the marriage and funeral have been made so easy, as are many other affairs. So that one may astonish when he sees the easiness made for all steps of such affairs: these, to one who contemplates, among the grace of God Most Gracious.

To me, being unfair is being spiteful. Wreaking havocful revenge an order of magnitude above which you were wronged. The world just goes on, oblivious to right or wrong.

One will be unfair when he denies his Creator: and therefore he will wrong himself and his family and friends when he will cast himself in complete loss.

Man is in prosperity and is happy, and says the life is good and sweet, and does not thank God, but when adversity befalls him, he will loose his patience and start to revile God Whom he asserted does not exist.

 

[eanassir]

Quite right, but that indifference seems to disturb a lot of people for various reasons, so they invent things like gods and demons and astrological vibrations and quantum consciousness and so on, to make a difference. Humans are great at perceiving purposeful behaviour and patterns where there aren't any. I'd bet that's the greatest single cause of the errors in thinking we all make.

The indifference is according to the natural laws that God inserted in the universe, that makes the electron obedient as does it make the sun obedient to such physical laws that God made in the creation.

But there has been mixing between God on one hand [Who has been wrongly and purposely denied here] and "gods, demons, astrological vibrations and quantum consciousness" on the other hand.

Moreover, " the great single error" that they make, is to deny the causative Creator after seeing the marvels of the universe and nature.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Some atheists assert that the probability of God existence is very little, which obviously is contrary to the truth; they in fact say this fallacy without giving any evidence.

It's not obvious at all. Disagreements over god's existence or non-existence wouldn't exist if it were obvious. The debate exists solely because the evidence for his existence is so lame, applies equally well to any god humanity's ever invented, and always admits of more prosaic explanations. Under those circumstances, the logical default position is disbelief. You're the one making the claim that this extraordinary supernatural being exists, it's far from obvious that he does, so the burden of proof is yours.

I presume you do not believe the old gods Thor, Odin, Zeus, Apollo, Baal, Marduk, et al, have any reality. When you truly understand why you reject them, you'll also understand why so many of us reject your version of the prime deity. There's no better evidence for him than there is for any of the others. I presume your first line of argument would be simply to claim that those are false gods and you've got a line to the real one because you have a book he dictated. That's not evidence, that's the logical fallacy called begging the question: you just assume the truth of what you're trying to demonstrate. The Quran does not prove god exists, it proves only that the people who recorded it believed he does. That's not good enough.

I'll believe you when intercessory prayer results in somebody regrowing an amputated limb. Cancers go into remission, people recover from infectious diseases and serious injuries, with and often without medical intervention, and people pray for those things and credit the deity when they get the outcome they wanted. But nobody prays for someone to regrow an amputated limb, because we all know that's never going to happen. Miracles don't happen, prayers are not answered, and it's foolish to think otherwise. Your Allah is a fraud.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Moreover, " the great single error" that they make, is to deny the causative Creator after seeing the marvels of the universe and nature.

Ah, the bankrupt old Argument from Design again. That the best you've got?

 

[Keith777]

I tell you all that it can never be found in any book: Blasphemer! cry the people of ritual and the copy and paste scripture merchants who use ancient writings from Worlds long gone, My God who made heaven and and earth and breathed life in to everything. wants praise and worship and for us to say the lords prayer and say it from our hearts. other peoples Gods seem to want there followers to face in a certain direction at a certain time and force his words down others throats and there mullahs scream and shout and promote violence against anybody who wants to lead a earthly life which is there choice.

My God gives us all free will ,anybody can say that they are a Christian but it does not mean that they are telling the truth, if you find deception or greed and see no joy and happiness regardless of circumstance in anybody claiming to be a Christian in these times?, take a look at your Goverments are these even real genuine honorable people with our best interests at heart?. well looking at mine here in the UK i would say no, and i am not judging anybody just speaking the truth.

 

[eanassir]

It's not obvious at all. Disagreements over god's existence or non-existence wouldn't exist if it were obvious. The debate exists solely because the evidence for his existence is so lame, applies equally well to any god humanity's ever invented, and always admits of more prosaic explanations. Under those circumstances, the logical default position is disbelief. You're the one making the claim that this extraordinary supernatural being exists, it's far from obvious that he does, so the burden of proof is yours.

To be fair, one should not say: God's existence is improbable; man may doubt about His existence (to me I am certain about God the Creator.)

So man may doubt, but to say: God is improbable; this is the deviation from the fair reasoning, and is a sort of biased thinking, and indicates his purposeful display of the subject.

The atheist wants to disbelieve; he picks any idea from the bin, whether it belongs to Darwin, Hitchins, an old philosopher or a modern repoter; he likes to blaspheme and disbelieve, he is unwilling to accept any idea in the opposite direction: to disbelieve in the atheism and believe in the Creator: God Almighty.

So it is a matter of guidance; the atheist attitude is the shrinkage from any idea related to God and the devotion to God; while the believer: he is willing to believe and devote himself to His Lord: the Creator.

The atheist is proud over listening to God, while the believer is submissive to the commandments of the Most Gracious.

This is in the Quran 6: 125​

فَمَن يُرِدِ اللّهُ أَن يَهْدِيَهُ يَشْرَحْ صَدْرَهُ لِلإِسْلاَمِ وَمَن يُرِدْ أَن يُضِلَّهُ يَجْعَلْ صَدْرَهُ ضَيِّقًا حَرَجًا كَأَنَّمَا يَصَّعَّدُ فِي السَّمَاء كَذَلِكَ يَجْعَلُ اللّهُ الرِّجْسَ عَلَى الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ​

The explanation:
(Whomsoever God desires to guide, He makes him rejoice in [accepting] the Islam; ​

whomsoever He desires to lead astray, He makes him dejected [accepting not the invitation to the Islam], and embarrassed, as if he were engaged in ascending in the sky; ​

as such does God lay 'abomination illness' on those who believe not.)​

 

[eanassir]

Repeated and deleted.

 

[eanassir]

I presume you do not believe the old gods Thor, Odin, Zeus, Apollo, Baal, Marduk, et al, have any reality. When you truly understand why you reject them, you'll also understand why so many of us reject your version of the prime deity. There's no better evidence for him than there is for any of the others. I presume your first line of argument would be simply to claim that those are false gods and you've got a line to the real one because you have a book he dictated. That's not evidence, that's the logical fallacy called begging the question: you just assume the truth of what you're trying to demonstrate. The Quran does not prove god exists, it proves only that the people who recorded it believed he does. That's not good enough.

I don’t know about all these gods and idols; but some of them at least: Thor mean the ox, and Baal was rejected by the prophets of the Children of Israel: Elia or Elijah and Isaiah.

BTW: the term (The false prophets) means the prophets of idols like the false prophets of Baal who prophecy lies in its name, in comparison to the true prophets of God the Creator, who invite people to God alone and bring the revelation from Him.

So will you consider the idols like God Almighty, and the stones like the Creator of the universe? What's the purpose then of the mission of all the prophets of God, other than inviting people to abandon the idolatry and in stead to worship God alone?

Therefore, this is obvious to everyone, that you want to hold the idols of the ancient like God Almighty.

See about Elia and his struggle against the worship of the Baal, here:
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com/english2.htm#Prophet_Elia
quranandhebrewbible.t35.com/english2.htm#Prophet_Elia
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com/english2.htm#they_intended_to_kill_Prophet_Elia
quranandhebrewbible.t35.com/english2.htm#they_intended_to_kill_Prophet_Elia​

And about Isaiah:
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com/english2.htm#Prophet_Isaiah
quranandhebrewbible.t35.com/english2.htm#Prophet_Isaiah​

And this is in the Quran 37: 123-132 about Prophet Isaiah and his struggle against the worship of the idol Baal:​

وَإِنَّ إِلْيَاسَ لَمِنْ الْمُرْسَلِينَ . إِذْ قَالَ لِقَوْمِهِ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ . أَتَدْعُونَ بَعْلًا وَتَذَرُونَ أَحْسَنَ الْخَالِقِينَ . وَاللَّهَ رَبَّكُمْ وَرَبَّ آبَائِكُمُ الْأَوَّلِينَ . فَكَذَّبُوهُ فَإِنَّهُمْ لَمُحْضَرُونَ . إِلَّا عِبَادَ اللَّهِ الْمُخْلَصِينَ . وَتَرَكْنَا عَلَيْهِ فِي الْآخِرِينَ . سَلَامٌ عَلَى إِلْ يَاسِينَ . إِنَّا كَذَلِكَ نَجْزِي الْمُحْسِنِينَ . إِنَّهُ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا الْمُؤْمِنِينَ​

The explanation:
(And surely Elias [: Isaiah] was one of the messengers.​

When he said to his people: "Do you not ward off [the punishment of God and abandon idolatry.]"​

"Will you call on Baal, and abandon the Best of creators?"​

"[That is] your Lord and the Lord of your forefathers."​

But they unbelieved him [till he was desperate of them], so they will be arraigned [for the punishment.]​

But not the servants of God: those being devoted [to worship Him alone.]​

And We left for him [good praise] among the later [generations who believe.]​

"Peace be for Elias [: Isaiah, and for all the prophets who, like him, despaired of the belief of their peoples.]​

Thus do We reward those [of your nation, O Mohammed] who do good.​

He is [one] of Our servants who believe [in Our might.])​

 

[eanassir]

I'll believe you when intercessory prayer results in somebody regrowing an amputated limb. Cancers go into remission, people recover from infectious diseases and serious injuries, with and often without medical intervention, and people pray for those things and credit the deity when they get the outcome they wanted. But nobody prays for someone to regrow an amputated limb, because we all know that's never going to happen. Miracles don't happen, prayers are not answered, and it's foolish to think otherwise. Your Allah is a fraud.

So you want the answering of any prayer; but such extraordinary answering of such requests have only been given as some miracles of Jesus and Prophet Elia or Elijah, who prayed God to revive some dead persons, and God answered the prayer of both these prophets and revived the dead in some circumstances

God answers - in particular - the prayer of such believer: the monotheist who is pious and godfearing and is not any sinner, and people have to keep up asking (according to some instruction of Prophet Jesus that the door may be opened after knocking on it incessantly, and the beggar may be given his request according to his keeping up praying and begging his Lord God.

Not every prayer is answered, and there are conditions and pleading to accept the prayer; so they revile God and want Him to answer their prayer, or should he throw a stone on them, and after the end of their respite He will capture them!
But evenso, God – out of His generosity – gives to both the believer and the disbeliever in this World, and in the next afterlife, He gives to the believer exclusively.

Moreover, the prayer is unlimited and man may ask whatever he likes, on condition he believes and be polite with his Lord's majesty, and try to do some righteous deeds that his prayer may be answered.

This is in the Quran 2: 186 ​

وَإِذَا سَأَلَكَ عِبَادِي عَنِّي فَإِنِّي قَرِيبٌ أُجِيبُ دَعْوَةَ الدَّاعِ إِذَا دَعَانِ فَلْيَسْتَجِيبُواْ لِي وَلْيُؤْمِنُواْ بِي لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْشُدُونَ​

The explanation:
(And when My servants ask you [Mohammed] concerning Me, ​

then, surely, I am Near; I answer the prayer's prayer when he prays to Me.​

So let them seek My answer [by being obedient to Me], ​

and let them believe in Me [and My Holy Names, by which they may ask me]; ​

so that they may be led aright [to the answering of their requests].)​

Refer also to my thread in this Canadian Content forum: God answers the prayer.​

 

[eanassir]

In addition to the previous reply:

God - be exalted - said in the Quran, 56: 83-87​

فَلَوْلا إذا بَلَغَتِ الحُلْقُوم . و أنْتُمْ حِينَئذٍ تَنْظُرُون . و نَحْنُ أقْرَبُ إلَيْهِ مِنْكُمْ و لكِن لا تُبْصِرُون . فَلَوْلا إن كُنتُمْ غَيْرَ مَدِينِين . تَرْجِعُونَها إنْ كُنْتُمْ صادِقِين .​

The explanation:
( 83- When the [soul of a dying man] comes up to the throat [; why shouldn't repent those who are present near him?]
84- And you [: the family of the dying man] the while [sit] looking [at him in the pangs of death.]
85- And We [: Our angels] are nearer to him than you are, but you see [them] not [; because they are ethereal and you are material.]
86- But, if you are not indebted [to Us, because of your sins],
87- why cannot you restore [his soul to his body, by supplicating Us, just like how the prophets Jesus and Elia did before]; if you speak truly [that you are not sinners?] )

See more details of this at the end of the subject:
http://man-after-death.t35.com/#What_Is_the_Cause_of_Death_
man-after-death.t35.com/#What_Is_the_Cause_of_Death_​