The definition of Liberalism

Socrates the Greek

I Remember them....
Apr 15, 2006
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Nope.... Not a damned thing. We are people ... NOT a party. I don't support party politics. That's not a government of the people.


look I know we are people I am no suggesting paint ourselves red and start running out in the streets screaming I am a Liberal. We are debating who is better to help the common man and so far Liberalism has been the alternative since Confederation in Canada.:smile:
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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look I know we are people I am no suggesting paint ourselves red and start running out in the streets screaming I am a Liberal. We are debating who is better to help the common man and so far Liberalism has been the alternative since Confederation in Canada.:smile:


Okay soc ... but only an alternative because they certainly are not my first choice.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Nov 7, 2008
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No. I did not say they were minor, only that they were a smaller % of GDP than those of Trudeau and Mulroney also had to deal with the economic momentum of them: Mulroney had to deal with more strain on the federal gov't resources (to service more existing debt) than Trudeau did. Of course Mulroney also took steps to try and alleviate the situation which Trudeau did not.

Pure conservative propaganda. What steps did Mulroney take to get rid of the deficit? None. On the contrary, he increased the deficit from around 25 billion $ to more than 40 billion $. Indeed, the deficit (which you claim was only minor) is what largely sunk the PC Party. Canadians are not stupid, as you seem to think. Maybe you give Mulroney the credit for getting rid of the deficit (and I assume so do all the conservatives), but Canadians don’t.

Again either your reading comprehension or your deductive reasoning skills are lacking. Chretien won 3 majorities because he was the ONLY leader of a strong national party. The PCs were almost non-existent because of backlash over the GST and (especially in the West) feeling that he hadn't done enough, fast enough to address the debt/deficit (which is ironic in that he did foster the environment to let it be addressed). The Reform wasn't viewed as a national alternative because of Central Canadian paranoia about political movements formed outside Ontario and Quebec, which was constantly encouraged by both the Liberals and the NDP in referring to the Reform and now Conservative "secret agenda" (though how a platform voted on in a public setting and that was subject to floor crossings both ways could remain such a secret is still a mystery to me). You still allude to it in your posts, SirJoe.
Oh, so you are aware that Chrétien won three majorities, are you? I thought in your dream world (where Mulroney ran a surplus and Liberals are running the biggest deficit in history) maybe you are under the impression that Conservatives won three majorities.

To a large degree that is exactly what has happened and no one who derides the Conservatives wants to admit this. Harper, the politician, will do whatever he has to in order to remain in power, as was true with any PM before him in the past 50 years(with the possible exception of Clark). Iggy/Dion and Layton have the ability to topple the gov't if they decide to do so and do it on an issue that puts Quebec's interests as differing from the country at large (thus mandating the Bloc will oppose the gov't). Thus Harper HAS to accede to the wishes of the other parties at times or frame the debate so that the opposition looks like the bad guy if the issue turns into an election trigger.
Quite, so we are in agreement. You think that Harper is the puppet, Dion (of whom Conservatives used to make fun of) was the puppet master and Dion could pull strings and make Harper do anything Dion wanted, against the wishes of Harper. So I assume you think that Harper wanted to run a big surplus, but the evil (sorry, Communist) Dion made him run the biggest deficit in the history of Canada. If you think that, you may be interested in a prime waterfront property I have for sale, called Brooklyn Bridge.

Did you know that President Truman had a plaque on his desk, saying ‘The buck stops here’? Quite a foreign concept to your ilk and to Harper, eh? To you, the buck stops anywhere except with Harper (unless it is something good, then of course the buck stops with Harper).

Now, I have no doubt that that is what Harper will try to do in the election; he will blame Liberals for the deficit. However, Canadians are not stupid, as you seem to think. They know who the PM was. It was Harper, not Dion. The deficit is Harper’s fault and nobody else’s. We have only your word for it that Harper wanted to run a surplus, but the Spawn of the Devil (sorry, Communist) Dion pulled his puppet strings and made him run the biggest deficit in the history.

Of course you think this: you have no idea of my voting history or my opinions of the politicians involved, you just fall back on the idea that if one does not worship the shade of Pierre Trudeau and spout his doctrine, they are a Conservative and thus below notice, except to be bled dry to fund the Liberal Party's next grand social spending spree. .
From the opinions you have expressed here (blame Liberals for every bad thing, praise conservatives for every good thing) I have no doubt in my mind that you are a committed Harper acolyte and that you were a Mulroney acolyte before that. After all, Mulroney got rid of the deficit and ran a surplus, right? And Harper intended to run a surplus but the evil (sorry, Communist) Liberals pulled his strings and forced him to run the biggest deficit in Canadian history.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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Of course you think this: you have no idea of my voting history or my opinions of the politicians involved, you just fall back on the idea that if one does not worship the shade of Pierre Trudeau and spout his doctrine, they are a Conservative and thus below notice, except to be bled dry to fund the Liberal Party's next grand social spending spree.

You mean Mulroney spending spree, with the deficit of more than 40 billion $? Or Harper spending spree with biggest deficit in history? Surely you don’t mean Chrétien spending spree, with surpluses of 12 billion $?

You seem to be living in Through the Looking Glass world, where black is white and night is day.

You have no concept of what most non-partisans think. Sure, I mostly vote Conservative but not exclusively, and because I feel they are the best of the available choices, not out of any party loyalty. I believe in evolving with the times but also in the axiom that if something isn't broke, you don't need to fix it, which is the opposite of the way I viewed most Liberal platforms since I have been paying attention.

If something ain’t broke, don’t fix it. So do you think anything is broken today? Now think carefully. If you think that the deficit is Harper deficit, then of course nothing is broke, Canada is as sound economically as it ever will be, the deficit is a good thing.

On the other hand, if you think that the deficit was caused by evil (sorry, Communist) Liberals, than of course Canada is a regular Hell hole and must be fixed.

So which is it? Is something broken today or isn’t it?
 

SirJosephPorter

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That's why they are called "Sheeple" when they feel their party can do no wrong...... "Any Party" faithful

You should talk. You are a faithful, committed Harper acolyte. Harper took 1000 $ each from your kids and your grandkids and gave some of it back to you, remember? You are eternally grateful to him.

But like many here, for some reason you are ashamed to admit to being a conservative.
 

SirJosephPorter

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How about this, why then, the Liberal history shows unequivocally to be a longer history in Canadian politics, then that of any other political party?;-)

According to some here, Liberal Party is really the Communist Party. So I assume they rig the elections. Conservatives get a majority each and every time, but those evil, Communist Liberals rig the elections.

Indeed, I read somewhere that Dion was the first Liberal leader ever not to become the PM.
 

SirJosephPorter

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At this point you and I agree to disagree, 69 years mean nothing to you, while 69 years is a strong number to follow.;-)

We are talking to conservative partisans, committed Harper acolytes here Socrates, no matter what they claim. So of course 69 years is nothing. Why, they might even dispute that it was Liberals who governed for 69 years, and not the conservatives.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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We are talking to conservative partisans, committed Harper acolytes here Socrates, no matter what they claim. So of course 69 years is nothing. Why, they might even dispute that it was Liberals who governed for 69 years, and not the conservatives.

That is known in technical jargon as exaggeration. It is an accepted and effective way of getting one's point across.

Some people's kids....
 
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DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
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Quite. Harper is borrowing more than 1000 $ each, every year from your kids and your grandkids and he is giving some of it back to you. How generous of him. Your kids and grandkids will have to pay for it. But hey, that is in the future, why worry about that now, right? Let us enjoy, have a party with the borrowed money.

You should talk. You are a faithful, committed Harper acolyte. Harper took 1000 $ each from your kids and your grandkids and gave some of it back to you, remember? You are eternally grateful to him.

But like many here, for some reason you are ashamed to admit to being a conservative.

Shhhhhh......I hear an echo.......and there is a third post very much like these two but I'm not looking for it....
Now would that be a broken record skip, a stutter, or the blabbering of a man who just likes the sound of his own voice.....or has run out of original things to say:lol::lol::lol::roll:
 

Socrates the Greek

I Remember them....
Apr 15, 2006
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What does gang mentality and pack bag-biting fix? Debate isn't supposed to be one bunch of idiots overshouting the other. I think it's time to get rid of the parties and run the show on free vote.

Through time people create political evolution, we are on the way in doing that.:smile:
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
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Shhhhhh......I hear an echo.......and there is a third post very much like these two but I'm not looking for it....
Now would that be a broken record skip, a stutter, or the blabbering of a man who just likes the sound of his own voice.....or has run out of original things to say:lol::lol::lol::roll:
and part of the third one:smile:
I knew there was an echo.....this forum is realy set up for finding things...a few key words and
Well, let me explain to you in simple terms. Harper borrowed it from your children and your grandchildren. When he came to office, there was no deficit, now he is running a deficit of more than 30 billion $. That means that he has borrowed more than 1000 $ from each and every Canadian, including infants.
Same old same old:lol::lol:;-)
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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Shhhhhh......I hear an echo.......and there is a third post very much like these two but I'm not looking for it....
Now would that be a broken record skip, a stutter, or the blabbering of a man who just likes the sound of his own voice.....or has run out of original things to say:lol::lol::lol::roll:

Truth hurts, doesn't it? Some people can't stand to face the truth. But truth bears repeating, it wears well no matter how may times it is told.

So let me repeat. Harper borrowed more than 1000 $ from each of your kids and your grandkids and gave part of it to you. For that you seem to be eternally grateful to him.
 

Socrates the Greek

I Remember them....
Apr 15, 2006
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Quoting DaSleeper
Shhhhhh......I hear an echo.......and there is a third post very much like these two but I'm not looking for it....
Now would that be a broken record skip, a stutter, or the blabbering of a man who just likes the sound of his own voice.....or has run out of original things to say.

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hey DS, I think S J P on post #296 he was offering a solution, in order to stop the financial bleeding, I think he is suggesting to put the Conservatives on opposition, for two reasons, one they make a good opposition, not Government, and two Liberals in the long run are good for the people. What say u?:smile:
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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Ye and your point? with regards who has provided the strongest Government in favour of the people?
No one, not in many many years. You'd do well to look into that.

The Conservatives?
Nope, not even them, but they certainly aren't the great satan you and sir pompass claim them to be.
lets keep the 6 that could not stay in power more then a year, vs the Liberal only one John Turner. Again is the party that shaped Canada to what it is today? My friend the answer is clear.
And you think party victories actually mean they did something for the country?
these numbers below mean nothing............................
83 years. Cons - 56. 21 Lib gov'ts to 19 Con
Agreed.

look I know we are people I am no suggesting paint ourselves red and start running out in the streets screaming I am a Liberal.
Yes you do.
We are debating who is better to help the common man and so far Liberalism has been the alternative since Confederation in Canada.:smile:
I would otherwise agree, if we actually had a party that embraced "Liberalism". Of course we don't so you're out to lunch.

Live the kids out and lets debate, like SJP made mention “if something is broken do you live broken or do you fix it“?:smile::canada:
So long as you and sir pompass live in lala land and refuse to see the fatcs, there is no debate, there is no attempt to fix what is broken.

Through time people create political evolution, we are on the way in doing that.:smile:
True, and "Liberalism" under the LPoC has be more mutated then evolved, into something nothing akin to "Liberalism".

Truth hurts, doesn't it? Some people can't stand to face the truth.
Agreed, which is why you ignore posts that punch huge holes in your BS rhetoric. Which is why you supposedly put people on ignore, because you know you will be put to shame by them. And finally, which is why you move the goal posts around. You can't admit error, you can not concede to fact, you simply parrot nonsense in shear contrast to the majority of people you mock.

But truth bears repeating, it wears well no matter how may times it is told.
True, which is why we keep posting the facts, so we can counter the absurdity contained in your posts.