The benefits of socialism.

lone wolf

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Nov 25, 2006
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"You mean the government didn't implement healthcare? The government doesn't build roads?"

You mean GOVERNMENT is always socialistic?

You're interpreting. Where did you read ALWAYS?

Do you see private enterprise doing healthcare? ...building roads? ...providing law enforcement? ...putting out fires?
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
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"Do you see private enterprise doing healthcare? ...building roads? ...providing law enforcement? ...putting out fires?"

Health care: In the United States.
Building roads: Anywhere in the world, where government dares not to tread.
Law enforcement: Wherever it is profitable. (not a dirty word)
Putting out fires: See above.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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"Do you see private enterprise doing healthcare? ...building roads? ...providing law enforcement? ...putting out fires?"

Health care: In the United States.
Building roads: Anywhere in the world, where government dares not to tread.
Law enforcement: Wherever it is profitable. (not a dirty word)
Putting out fires: See above.
If you don't like socialism, find a place to live that doesn't provide government policing, healthcare, education, etc. Find one where companies provide all that.
 

lone wolf

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Nov 25, 2006
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"Do you see private enterprise doing healthcare? ...building roads? ...providing law enforcement? ...putting out fires?"

Health care: In the United States.
Building roads: Anywhere in the world, where government dares not to tread.
Law enforcement: Wherever it is profitable. (not a dirty word)
Putting out fires: See above.

Are they doing a good job?
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Back to the original topic - a "blame socialism" fest because a drought is affecting a socialist country's water reserves for generating power....
Ya gotta love a capitalists need to rape and pillage the land and oppress the people - profit above all and screw anybody who gets in their way. Does it not say in the bible something about helping your neighbour? If we are a society, we are socialists. Capitalists only look out for number one.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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So instead of using any alternative sources we should just burn lots. :roll:
In our little 20 hectare corner of the planet we use power we generate from the creek as well as the power generated from the sun. We don't burn the NatGas that is available in this area.
Germany cut its power problem by a large fraction just from people putting solar panels on their roofs. Portugal is generating a large quantity of electricity from the wave motion off their coast. I haven't heard many grumbles from the Pincher Creek, Lethbridge area of Alberta because of the wind turbines there.
But, you are right. It's too hard for North Americans and we have lots of oil. Let's burn it. :roll:

Places like Germany (25+%) and France (75%) have nuclear power generating their electrical power. Were not even close to them, maybe U.S. 20%, Canada 16%. Get rid of the coal and go totally nuclear. The other so called alternative sources do not even come close to what nuclear can give us. Plus were still using 1900's technology to distribute what ever power we create.

Just to stay on topic, under socialism we never would have explored alternative energy sources.
 

Cliffy

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500 million year half life for waste products, depleted uranium armaments, the sneaky dumping of waste off the coast of Somalia, the poisoning of our oceans and ground water systems, astronomical cost to build, lies form government and the nuclear commission.....
 

lone wolf

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Nov 25, 2006
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I totally agree, just wish there wasn't such a negative connotation attached to nuclear power, no reason for it.

Too many people are stuck in a Cold War mindset. Then, there are the Luddites who think time should stand still. Windfarms allegedly make noise and kill birds. What demons will they "discover" when solar collectors get more widespread?
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Cliffy already gave the best answer against nuclear. The upfront costs are astronomical. Combined cycle gas is paid back in 4-5 years, nuclear in 25-40 years. If you're a financial manager, which one would you pick?
 

lone wolf

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Cliffy already gave the best answer against nuclear. The upfront costs are astronomical. Combined cycle gas is paid back in 4-5 years, nuclear in 25-40 years. If you're a financial manager, which one would you pick?

Solar. Collectors are getting more efficient every year and can be set up on rooftops right in the city they will power. No land has to be drowned. No rotor blades and towers mess with the scenery and they're far less in cost than nuclear power.

Development Sault Ste. Marie Pleased to Announce Major Solar Energy Project
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Solar. Collectors are getting more efficient every year and can be set up on rooftops right in the city they will power. No land has to be drowned. No rotor blades and towers mess with the scenery and they're far less in cost than nuclear power.

Development Sault Ste. Marie Pleased to Announce Major Solar Energy Project

That's fine for homeowners. My question was addressed from the stand point of power companies who provide the baseload power. They have financial departments which weigh the options. I guess I wasn't completely clear about that.

I think home owners generating their own power would be more widespread with more equitable regulations- to compensate home owners fairly for the generation they don't use. Do you know what the rules are in Ontario concerning this?
 

lone wolf

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Nov 25, 2006
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That's fine for homeowners. My question was addressed from the stand point of power companies who provide the baseload power. They have financial departments which weigh the options. I guess I wasn't completely clear about that.

I think home owners generating their own power would be more widespread with more equitable regulations- to compensate home owners fairly for the generation they don't use. Do you know what the rules are in Ontario concerning this?

Rules? They apply to Hydro One?

Solar power isn't a static thing. Photo-electric cell and storage battery technology is growing by leaps and bounds. The Soo's project is aiming for peak hours supplemental power. It's not a great stretch of imagination to see Sol coming into widespread use as a baseload source.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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500 million year half life for waste products, depleted uranium armaments, the sneaky dumping of waste off the coast of Somalia, the poisoning of our oceans and ground water systems, astronomical cost to build, lies form government and the nuclear commission.....


Don't know where Canada dumps its waste, we have underground caves dug in salt to store it. Been doing it that way for years, in South West and Louisiana. There is a down side to everything, live with it, storing it will not bother anything. The upfront costs with nuclear power are artificialy created, there is no need for a nuclear power plant to take 15-20 years to build, it could be built in under 10 years same quality. Cost can also be brought down by standardizing the design of the plants, no reason for each one to be different unless it is a major improvement.

Coal power is deadlier than nuclear power- fact. The downsides to nuclear power you have shown have not happened, maybe will happen, just fear by those who are not willing to take chances.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Lets go with solar then, where will you put those millions of panels? When will you a new power grid built to distribute the power? Where will you store this energy when the panels are not operating. How long would it take to build, especially the power gridf to link everything? This is for a whole country not getting hydro, tidal or other clean energy.
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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This is for a whole country not getting hydro, tidal or other clean energy.

In other words, your scenario is not realistic. No country will get 100% of it's power from one source. That's not smart.

Solar thermal will be a big deal in the coming decades. It's a bit player now, but there area huge deals being struck over in Europe with African nations (almost $600 Billion), and plans for stations in the SW and SE USA. You can get power from solar thermal when the sun isn't shining. By storing the superheated liquid in storage tanks.