Tamir Rice

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
43,546
651
113
He was clearly a violent, dangerous felon, a drug user and a bad person. And with a name like Tamir, probably a Muslim terrorist. I'm glad he's dead.


So am I. Just like with Mark Duggan, the police were right to rid the world of him.
 

spaminator

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 26, 2009
25,894
413
83
Chicago cop who shot Tamir Rice, 12, pleads not guilty to murder
Justin Madden and Renita D. Young, Reuters
First posted: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 12:40 PM EST | Updated: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 11:10 PM EST
CHICAGO - The Chicago police officer who shot a black teenager last year pleaded not guilty to murder on Tuesday, as Mayor Rahm Emanuel cut short a vacation to return to the city to deal with the fallout from two more fatal police shootings over the weekend.
Meanwhile, protesters demonstrated outside the Cuyahoga County prosecutor's office in Cleveland, a day after a grand jury decided not to charge two white police officers in the 2014 shooting death of Tamir Rice, a black 12-year-old boy who was playing in a park with a toy gun that shoots plastic pellets.
Tensions over race and policing in Chicago and Cleveland come amid intense scrutiny of police killings in the United States over the past 18 months, especially of black men.
Protests have taken place around the country and the issue has fueled a civil rights movement under the name Black Lives Matter.
Chicago Police Officer Jason Van Dyke, who is white, faces six counts of first-degree murder and one count of official misconduct for killing Laquan McDonald, 17, in October 2014.
He pleaded not guilty to all charges at the Cook County criminal court in Chicago.
Van Dyke's lawyer said he may ask for a change of venue.
"We're certainly going to explore every opportunity we have in order for my client to have a fair trial," attorney Daniel Herbert said after the hearing.
The release last month of a video of the shooting, which shows Van Dyke shooting McDonald 16 times, set off a wave of protests and calls for Emanuel's resignation. The mayor fired the police chief and the Justice Department is investigating whether the city's police use lethal force too often, especially against minorities.
Over the weekend, another Chicago police officer fatally shot two black people, setting off more protests, and prompting Emanuel to cut short a family vacation to Cuba.
Bettie Jones, 55, a mother of five, and college student Quintonio LeGrier, 19, were killed on Saturday by an officer responding to a call that LeGrier was threatening his father with a baseball bat. Police said Jones was killed by accident.
Friends and relatives of LeGrier wrapped blue and white balloons around a basketball goal during a candlelight vigil on Tuesday across the street from the high school he graduated from in 2014.
Gathered in the snowy street, they remembered LeGrier as a loving, generous, optimistic person and a good outfielder in baseball.
Gerald Pope, 19, and Monet Booth, 18, were classmates of LeGrier's. Pope said LeGrier gave his last dollar to get home instead of buying a honey bun.
"He was a very humble, optimistic, caring and didn't cause any problems," said Booth. "And to know that my friend, a fellow classmate at Gwendolyn Brooks was gunned down so inhumanely is so disgusting."
Gwendolyn Brooks is one of Chicago's selective enrollment high schools, with competitive admission based on high grades and testing.
Elsewhere in Chicago, about 20 protesters gathered outside the mayor's house on Tuesday, according to CBS Chicago. It was not clear whether Emanuel had yet returned from Cuba as of Tuesday evening. There is also a protest planned at City Hall on Thursday.
While some family members said LeGrier had mental health or emotional issues, others described him as going through college student stress, according to local media reports.
LeGrier excelled in high school while he was brought up by a foster mother after the state removed him from his mother's home because she abused him, the Chicago Sun-Times reported on Tuesday. The paper also said LeGrier faced robbery and assault charges from three incidents since he began attending Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, 65 miles west of Chicago.
LeGrier's father, Antonio LeGrier, has sued the city for wrongful death and for false arrest, saying he was detained and interrogated by the police after the shooting and not allowed to stay with his dying son.
Antonio LeGrier told CNN on Tuesday that the officer was male and was white or Hispanic, and that he knew he had made a mistake after the shooting and exclaimed, "I can't believe it. I thought he was coming at me with that bat," and "F--- no, no."
In Cleveland, about 75 protesters unsatisfied with the grand jury's decision in the Rice case listened to speeches outside the prosecutor's office. They then marched through downtown Cleveland chanting "No justice, no peace, no racist police." The demonstration was peaceful and no arrests were reported.
Cleveland police will review the fatal shooting of Rice from start to finish to determine if the two officers involved or others should face disciplinary action, officials said on Tuesday.
Chicago cop who shot Tamir Rice, 12, pleads not guilty to murder | World | News
 

Dixie Cup

House Member
Sep 16, 2006
3,087
291
83
Edmonton
I don't think you can compare kids having "play" guns with kids playing with guns 20 or even 30 years or more ago. Times have changed. Why parents would even provide "toy" guns for boys is beyond me, especially for this very reason. Because these toys are so realistic and because of the many shooting incidents at schools etc., it'd be hard-pressed for any policeman, no matter how much training they've had, to determine in a split second whether the weapon is real or not. Personally, if I was a cop and someone pointed a realistic gun at me, I'm not so sure I wouldn't pull the trigger as well.


We're talking split seconds! Have you ever either been in an accident or avoided one in that "split second" where a different decision may have made for a different outcome? While there's no comparison, ('cuz you've survived) the "split second" scenario still applies. "If only" I did this, then this would or wouldn't have happened. After all, there's always 20/20 hindsight right? I'm sure that cop wishes he could get every second back! (If he doesn't he shouldn't be a cop).


While I agree shooting should be the last thing any cop should be doing, many cops have died because they hesitated. I wouldn't want to be a cop for anything in the world today - you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. It's a hard job and I'm thankful that they're there. Are there some guys who shouldn't be cops? Absolutely. There's always someone who shouldn't be something, somewhere. But over all, at least in Canada, the police I've had the occasion to interact with have been wonderful. But maybe we're just fortunate in Canada. The US not so much!


JMHO
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
44,791
280
83
Washington DC
I don't think you can compare kids having "play" guns with kids playing with guns 20 or even 30 years or more ago. Times have changed. Why parents would even provide "toy" guns for boys is beyond me, especially for this very reason. Because these toys are so realistic and because of the many shooting incidents at schools etc., it'd be hard-pressed for any policeman, no matter how much training they've had, to determine in a split second whether the weapon is real or not. Personally, if I was a cop and someone pointed a realistic gun at me, I'm not so sure I wouldn't pull the trigger as well.
Of course, Tamir Rice didn't point his toy at a cop.


We're talking split seconds! Have you ever either been in an accident or avoided one in that "split second" where a different decision may have made for a different outcome? While there's no comparison, ('cuz you've survived) the "split second" scenario still applies. "If only" I did this, then this would or wouldn't have happened. After all, there's always 20/20 hindsight right? I'm sure that cop wishes he could get every second back! (If he doesn't he shouldn't be a cop).
Interestingly, three police departments turned Loehmann down and a fourth fired him a couple of months into his employment stating that he was "emotionally and mentally unsuited for police work" before the Cleveland PD picked him up. Apparently they never checked.

While I agree shooting should be the last thing any cop should be doing, many cops have died because they hesitated.
Very few. This year in the U.S., 39. Fewer than died of traffic accidents. 2015 was the second-safest year for cops in the U.S. since 1875. 2013 was the safest.

By contrast, police in the U.S. shot about 1000 people, of whom 90 were unarmed.

I wouldn't want to be a cop for anything in the world today - you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. It's a hard job and I'm thankful that they're there. Are there some guys who shouldn't be cops? Absolutely. There's always someone who shouldn't be something, somewhere. But over all, at least in Canada, the police I've had the occasion to interact with have been wonderful. But maybe we're just fortunate in Canada. The US not so much!
Maybe they carve that on Tamir Rice's and Aiyanna Jones's headstones.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
43,546
651
113
Yankeeland is a country where 6 year olds routinely get given guns to "play" with by their parents at home, and where you can buy a submachine gun as long as you are 14 or over and can prove that you have an IQ above 50. So if you're going to be going outdoors in Yankeeland brandishing a toy gun and waving it about and pointing it at people then you can't blame the police for shooting you dead - being America there's more chance that it's a real gun that you'd be brandishing - and for ridding society of what may well, very likely, have been a gun-wielding thug. Rice is no longer with us because of his own stupidity and we can congratulate the police for a job well do. They weren't to know that it wasn't a real gun and they should take no chances.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
44,791
280
83
Washington DC
Yankeeland is a country where 6 year olds routinely get given guns to "play" with by their parents at home, and where you can buy a submachine gun as long as you are 14 or over and can prove that you have an IQ above 50.
That, of course, is not true, which raises the question. . . Are you deliberately lying, or just stupid?

So if you're going to be going outdoors in Yankeeland brandishing a toy gun and waving it about and pointing it at people then you can't blame the police for shooting you dead - being America there's more chance that it's a real gun that you'd be brandishing - and for ridding society of what may well, very likely, have been a gun-wielding thug.
Ah, the great Briddish standard of justice. Kill anybody who may eventually commit a crime.

Works really well on Brazilian electricians.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
43,546
651
113
That, of course, is not true, which raises the question. . . Are you deliberately lying, or just stupid?

It's not far off being the truth. I'm assuming laws vary from state to state but, on average, I'd say I'm pretty much bang on there.

Kill anybody who may eventually commit a crime.
I wouldn't want you "protecting" my community as a police officer. If you were called out to reports of a gun-wielding maniac who's brandishing a pistol and waving it about manically in the street and pointing it at people you'd wait until he shoots a passer-by in the head before you take him out rather than taking him out BEFORE he shoots somebody.

I can imagine it now:

Member of the public: "Oi, officer! Shoot him before he kills somebody! He's waving a gun about!"

PC Tecumsehbones: "No. I won't shoot him. It could be a water pistol he's holding! I'll have to wait until he pulls the trigger first to ascertain whether or not it's a real gun! If he shoots a person dead with it, then I'll open fire!"


The police officers did the right thing. They prevented what could well have been a shooting by a gun-wielding maniac by taking out the gun-wielder before he could do any damage. It's a job well done. Stop whingeing about it.

Why is it that, yet again, I'm the voice of common sense?
 
Last edited:

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
44,791
280
83
Washington DC
It's not far off being the truth. I'm assuming laws vary from state to state but, on average, I'd say I'm pretty much bang on there.
Well, then, let me smarten you up a bit. A submachine gun is an automatic weapon, which is controlled by Federal (i.e., national) law since 1986. Since then, importation or manufacture of automatic weapons are forbidden to all but police agencies, and the automatic weapons existing as of 1986 can only be possessed by citizens with a special license from the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.

I wouldn't want you "protecting" my community as a police officer.
That's understandable. I wouldn't protect a community of Briddish if I could do so with no effort and no danger. I'd just order up some popcorn and watch 'em die.

If you were called out to reports of a gun-wielding maniac who's brandishing a pistol and waving it about manically in the street and pointing it at people you'd wait until he shoots a passer-by in the head before you take him out rather than taking him out BEFORE he shoots somebody.
Except the report said it might be a child and the gun might be a toy.

Don't you just hate it when facts get in the way of your delusions?

No, wait. Facts never get in the way of your delusions.

I can imagine it now:

Member of the public: "Oi, officer! Shoot him before he kills somebody! He's waving a gun about!"

PC Tecumsehbones: "No. I won't shoot him. It could be a water pistol he's holding! I'll have to wait until he pulls the trigger first to ascertain whether or not it's a real gun! If he shoots a person dead with it, then I'll open fire!"


The police officers did the right thing. They prevented what could well have been a shooting by a gun-wielding maniac by taking out the gun-wielder before he could do any damage. It's a job well done. Stop whingeing about it.

Why is it that, yet again, I'm the voice of common sense?
Yeah, like they did the right thing with the Brazilian electrician in the Tube.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
43,546
651
113
Well, then, let me smarten you up a bit. A submachine gun is an automatic weapon, which is controlled by Federal (i.e., national) law since 1986. Since then, importation or manufacture of automatic weapons are forbidden to all but police agencies, and the automatic weapons existing as of 1986 can only be possessed by citizens with a special license from the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.

I think you're being too pedantic here.

What we do now is how crazily easy it is to buy guns in Yankeeland.

That's understandable. I wouldn't protect a community of Briddish if I could do so with no effort and no danger. I'd just order up some popcorn and watch 'em die.
To be honest with you, I don't think anybody would want a liberal do-gooder like you "protecting" their communities as a police officer. Having a do-gooder who is more concerned with the rights of the criminal than the law-abiding public as a police officer would be so dangerous it just doesn't bare thinking about. Such a thin would be a social calamity and result in a huge rise in crime.

Except the report said it might be a child and the gun might be a toy.
It MIGHT be a child (but that doesn't make any difference) and it MIGHT be a toy. But the police officers didn't know for sure. Pray tell me, my good man, do you really think that police officers should wait until somebody shoots an innocent person in the head before they take out the gunman (or gunwoman), so that it's now been ascertained that the gun is real? Or should they take immediate action to take out the gunman (or gunwoman) or potential gunman (or gunwoman) before he/she shoots anybody, if indeed that is his/her intention? I reckon that police officers should err on the side of caution and take out the gunman before he causes any injuries or fatalities, before it's then ascertained whether the gun is real or not. It's better to be safe than sorry.


Yeah, like they did the right thing with the Brazilian electrician in the Tube.
Bloody too right. This was just a fortnight after 7/7 and it's better, just after an Islamist attack, to take out a dark-looking fellow acting suspiciously but who then turns out to be innocent than just ignoring him and allowing him to go ahead and commit mass murder if that was to be his intention. That was another job well-done by police officers, who were protecting the public.
 

Dixie Cup

House Member
Sep 16, 2006
3,087
291
83
Edmonton
Well actually, while Blackleaf may be facetious, there's a lot of truth to what he's says. The fact that you don't agree, Tecum, says a lot.

JMHO
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
44,791
280
83
Washington DC
I think you're being too pedantic here.

What we do now is how crazily easy it is to buy guns in Yankeeland.
You're the ignoramus who was talking about state laws.

To be honest with you, I don't think anybody would want a liberal do-gooder like you "protecting" their communities as a police officer. Having a do-gooder who is more concerned with the rights of the criminal than the law-abiding public as a police officer would be so dangerous it just doesn't bare thinking about. Such a thin would be a social calamity and result in a huge rise in crime.
You couldn't be honest if your life literally depended on it. Nonetheless, I note your Briddish orientation that a person is a "criminal" if the police, or the person who reported, thinks he might be. Certainly simplifies the investigatory and judicial process.

It MIGHT be a child (but that doesn't make any difference) and it MIGHT be a toy. But the police officers didn't know for sure. Pray tell me, my good man, do you really think that police officers should wait until somebody shoots an innocent person in the head before they take out the gunman (or gunwoman), so that it's now been ascertained that the gun is real? Or should they take immediate action to take out the gunman (or gunwoman) or potential gunman (or gunwoman) before he/she shoots anybody, if indeed that is his/her intention? I reckon that police officers should err on the side of caution and take out the gunman before he causes any injuries or fatalities, before it's then ascertained whether the gun is real or not. It's better to be safe than sorry.
It was a child, and it was a toy. And he didn't shoot anybody anywhere, so your hypothetical is as stupid as I've come to expect from you.


Bloody too right. This was just a fortnight after 7/7 and it's better, just after an Islamist attack, to take out a dark-looking fellow acting suspiciously but who then turns out to be innocent than just ignoring him and allowing him to go ahead and commit mass murder if that was to be his intention. That was another job well-done by police officers, who were protecting the public.
So you're happy that an innocent man was shot dead? Not at all surprising, really.

And you've used up your attention quota for the day. Hope it was good for you. Happy trails.

Well actually, while Blackleaf may be facetious, there's a lot of truth to what he's says. The fact that you don't agree, Tecum, says a lot.

JMHO
It says I'm troubled about innocent, unarmed people, especially children, being killed by the police. The fact that you and Blackleaf appear to be completely unconcerned about that says a lot about you as well.
 

Dixie Cup

House Member
Sep 16, 2006
3,087
291
83
Edmonton
"It was a child, and it was a toy. And he didn't shoot anybody anywhere, so your hypothetical is as stupid as I've come to expect from you."

A bit self-righteous aren't we? I suppose you're right - had you been that cop, you wouldn't have done anything at all and just asked the child to hand over the gun. And good on yuh. I'm just saying that its not all that cut and dried.

JMHO
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
44,791
280
83
Washington DC
"It was a child, and it was a toy. And he didn't shoot anybody anywhere, so your hypothetical is as stupid as I've come to expect from you."

A bit self-righteous aren't we?
"We" certainly are. You no less than me.

I suppose you're right - had you been that cop, you wouldn't have done anything at all and just asked the child to hand over the gun. And good on yuh. I'm just saying that its not all that cut and dried.

JMHO
Since you're so good at telling me what I think, let me return the favor.

Your evident opinion from your posts is that the actions, reports, and training of the police should never be questioned or reviewed. Whatever the cops choose to do and say should be conclusively presumed to be the absolute truth. Because they're such shiny, flawless examples of greatness.

Yay.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,414
100
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
I don't think you can compare kids having "play" guns with kids playing with guns 20 or even 30 years or more ago.

Toy gun from back in the day



Note the indicator that all Sheriffs carry this exact weapon

I suppose you're right - had you been that cop, you wouldn't have done anything at all and just asked the child to hand over the gun. And good on yuh. I'm just saying that its not all that cut and dried.

Taking his toy would have been a Constitutional violation... The cop really should have run over without any question and gave him a big hug.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dixie Cup