Spanking children isn’t abusing them

[darkbeaver]

In fact, a bill to this effect has already been introduced during the current Parliament, by Senator the Honourable Céline Hervieux-Payette, P.C. (of the Senate Liberals), called Bill S-206, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (protection of children against standard child-rearing violence). The bill proposes to delete s. 43 of the Criminal Code, and provides a one-year transition period in which the Government can educate the population on the impact of the legislation. (Click here to view Bill S-206.)

So the government must have a replacement remedy to ensure the child is not injured by its own hand and since reason and common sence are largely uncultivated in the young this ammendment could be seen as more dangerous than the previous act. I fail to see what new remedy for unruly children could possibly have been proven more effective and humane suddenly after the many hundreds of thousands of years of child developement solely responsible for the advanced civilized state of social and cultural institutions today.

BILL S-206​

PROJET DE LOI S-206​

An Act to amend the Criminal Code (protection of children against standard child-rearing violence)

Loi modifiant le Code criminel (protection des enfants contre la violence éducative ordinaire)




Her Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate and House of Commons of Canada, enacts as follows:



SUMMARY This enactment removes the justification in the Criminal Code available to schoolteachers, parents and persons standing in the place of parents of using force as a means of correction toward a pupil or child under their care.
It provides the Government with up to one year between the dates of royal assent and coming into force, which could be used to educate Canadians and to coordinate with the provinces.

 

[DaSleeper]

It's much less traumatizing if you call the police if a child happens to draw the picture of a gun..........

 

[darkbeaver]

or admit to belief in God

 

[tay]

Finally an American story with sanity prevailing......


Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court upheld a ruling on Monday barring a Christian couple from adopting more children because they argue that the Bible condones them spanking their biological children.

Melanie and Gregory Magazu have argued that they only spanked their children in the bathroom so that they would not be humiliated. They said that the Department of Children and Families’ (DCF) decision to reject their application in 2012 was “arbitrary and capricious” and infringed upon their religious rights, since they followed the proverb, “Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.”

A Worcester County Superior Court judge ruled last August that the couple’s use of corporal punishment would be harmful to prospective adoptees — many of whom are taken from abusive households — because it “could very well trigger the very trauma the placement was intended to mitigate.”

The couple also said they would promise not to use the same sort of punishment against any child placed in their care, but the high court found in a unanimous decision that the DCF was right to reject their application.

“Although the department’s decision imposes a substantial burden on the Magazus’ sincerely held religious beliefs, this burden is outweighed by the department’s compelling interest in protecting the physical and emotional well-being of foster children,” the court stated.

Fitchburg couple defend use of spanking after losing appeal to become foster parents - News - telegram.com - Worcester, MA

 

[davesmom]

As usual, people think of spanking in extreme terms. Your choices are, let your child run wild or beat the hell out of him. It doesn't have to be that way and in most cases it is neither.
There are times when a slap on the hand or on the butt can save a toddler from extreme danger. I would rather have a spanked kid than a dead one.
In fact, verbal abuse is much more damaging to a child than spanking. Normally, a spanking is quickly forgotten, lesson learned. Verbal abuse destroys self esteem and kills the child's belief in his own self worth.
Assault laws already protect people including children from beatings. Aside from excessive physical punishment, the government needs to get its nose out of people's personal family lives.

 

[JLM]

As usual, people think of spanking in extreme terms. Your choices are, let your child run wild or beat the hell out of him. It doesn't have to be that way and in most cases it is neither.
There are times when a slap on the hand or on the butt can save a toddler from extreme danger. I would rather have a spanked kid than a dead one.
In fact, verbal abuse is much more damaging to a child than spanking. Normally, a spanking is quickly forgotten, lesson learned. Verbal abuse destroys self esteem and kills the child's belief in his own self worth.
Assault laws already protect people including children from beatings. Aside from excessive physical punishment, the government needs to get its nose out of people's personal family lives.

As usual D.M. I totally agree.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Flay the little bastards. Won't hear a peep outta me.

 

[JLM]

Flay the little bastards. Won't hear a peep outta me.

Sometimes you have to, but I'm highly in favour of doing that as an absolute last resort (holding up grocery stores or pouring turpentine on the cat)

 

[DaSleeper]

Sometimes you have to, but I'm highly in favour of doing that as an absolute last resort (holding up grocery stores or pouring turpentine on the cat)

TBone was just being his usual snarky self......

 

[JLM]

TBone was just being his usual snarky self......

But modified with a touch of humour!

 

[DaSleeper]

But modified with a touch of humour!

She probably thinks it is.....

 

[Twila]

I spanked my daughter once. I can't remember what she'd done, but I remember we were at the mall. She actually became quite angry after the spanking. She was 2 or 3 years old at the time.

I'd already learned that if she had something in her hands she shouldn't, it was best to simply ask her for the item. She'd happily hand it over. If you sounded upset or panicked that she had something in her hand, she'd throw it away.

So after she became angry at having been spanked, I decided to never do it again. She's the kind of person whom responds to honest discussions. She does not respond well to fear. Spanking uses fear of punishment and pain as a deterrent. The human mind can not live in constant fear. It will do what it can to mitigate that feeling. Doesn't always work out the way the parent hopes.

Her father is exactly the same way. In fact, the threat of pain infliction has caused him to become very very good at beating the snot out of other people. He grew up with spankings and it was NOT the right method for him. Funnily enough, when we got together, people were worried about my safety. Turns out he responds in kind. I'm non violent and believe if you can't get across your opinion with words and have to resort to violence then your opinion/idea is worth nothing. You can talk to him and tell him anything. He'll never lay a hand on you. Raise your fist to him? He'll knock you out. I think it's because he was inadvertently taught at a young age, that violence is how you stop violence. If you don't want to be hit, hit back and knock 'em out. They'll stop hitting you. Kids learn funny things, even when we think we're teaching them a specific thing, they could well be learning stuff you had no intention of teaching, nor had a clue you were teaching something to them. scary stuff.

 

[Danbones]

one time my father said
"don't you think that was kinda low?"
worst spank I ever got

but 20+ years in the bar biz:
batting 1ooo

 

[Ludlow]

I spanked my daughter once. I can't remember what she'd done, but I remember we were at the mall. She actually became quite angry after the spanking. She was 2 or 3 years old at the time.

I'd already learned that if she had something in her hands she shouldn't, it was best to simply ask her for the item. She'd happily hand it over. If you sounded upset or panicked that she had something in her hand, she'd throw it away.

So after she became angry at having been spanked, I decided to never do it again. She's the kind of person whom responds to honest discussions. She does not respond well to fear. Spanking uses fear of punishment and pain as a deterrent. The human mind can not live in constant fear. It will do what it can to mitigate that feeling. Doesn't always work out the way the parent hopes.

Her father is exactly the same way. In fact, the threat of pain infliction has caused him to become very very good at beating the snot out of other people. He grew up with spankings and it was NOT the right method for him. Funnily enough, when we got together, people were worried about my safety. Turns out he responds in kind. I'm non violent and believe if you can't get across your opinion with words and have to resort to violence then your opinion/idea is worth nothing. You can talk to him and tell him anything. He'll never lay a hand on you. Raise your fist to him? He'll knock you out. I think it's because he was inadvertently taught at a young age, that violence is how you stop violence. If you don't want to be hit, hit back and knock 'em out. They'll stop hitting you. Kids learn funny things, even when we think we're teaching them a specific thing, they could well be learning stuff you had no intention of teaching, nor had a clue you were teaching something to them. scary stuff.

Deterrent is an interesting word. Does fear of punishment Deter someone from bad behavior. They say the death penalty is a deterrent yet, death row not vacant. Going to prison is a deterrent to crime yet crime is plentiful and the prisons are full. Is spanking a child a deterrent to them behaving in a manner that will be injurious to them or others. Yes and no I guess. I preferred talking and trying to reason with my kids because I feel that they "are' intelligent enough to respond to logic in lieu of restraining out of "fear". Doesn't work all of the time but what does.

 

[Twila]

Deterrent is an interesting word. Does fear of punishment Deter someone from bad behavior.

No, I don't think it does. I never once thought before doing something "oh wait, will I get spanked for this?" After I'd done some stupid stuff I wondered what my dad'll do. Never before. Usually before you're not fully engaged in an entire thought process about the potential activity and possible outcomes. You're just thinking how cool something'll be if you succeed.

But that's got to be the reason why spanking is accepted as a form of punishment...right? Otherwise it's saying to a child "If you do something I don't want you to or don't like then I get to hit you."

 

[darkbeaver]

one time my father said
"don't you think that was kinda low?"
worst spank I ever got

but 20+ years in the bar biz:
batting 1ooo

I was dropped in front of a bar one night. That bouncer was fast. Was it you? I bet you can't do it again.

Deterrent is an interesting word. Does fear of punishment Deter someone from bad behavior. They say the death penalty is a deterrent yet, death row not vacant. Going to prison is a deterrent to crime yet crime is plentiful and the prisons are full. Is spanking a child a deterrent to them behaving in a manner that will be injurious to them or others. Yes and no I guess. I preferred talking and trying to reason with my kids because I feel that they "are' intelligent enough to respond to logic in lieu of restraining out of "fear". Doesn't work all of the time but what does.

I agree with you because it is your approach and that is you but my children were my children and if I were to save them from becoming me I would have to address the me in them. My parents were affraid to have other children by the time I was two. Eventually they got my attention.

My kids were smarter than me.

 

[eh1eh]

Spanking is good when you don't want to spend the time and effort to teach your children to be good.

 

[Ludlow]

Spanking is good when you don't want to spend the time and effort to teach your children to be good.

Nothing worthwhile is ever easy. I had three little girls to raise. Often times the ex and I didn't agree and that seemed to be the hardest part of all of it. Having to fight her in order to teach them. I never spanked my girls. One look in their eyes and it could not happen. They are all grown now and I am proud of the people they've become. They care about others and try to walk the straight and narrow the best they can. I think if I'd have been a parent who was a spanker, there would have been an adverse effect on them. They know their dad as one they can trust. And visa versa.

 

[eh1eh]

Nothing worthwhile is ever easy. I had three little girls to raise. Often times the ex and I didn't agree and that seemed to be the hardest part of all of it. Having to fight her in order to teach them. I never spanked my girls. One look in their eyes and it could not happen. They are all grown now and I am proud of the people they've become. They care about others and try to walk the straight and narrow the best they can. I think if I'd have been a parent who was a spanker, there would have been an adverse effect on them. They know their dad as one they can trust. And visa versa.

Me too.

 

[darkbeaver]

Spanking is good when you don't want to spend the time and effort to teach your children to be good.

My children are good because I was a FATHER FIGURE.