So what does happen when you die?

[petros]

I need not prove a thing. As there is not a shred of evidence for the claim that something happens when you die

Ever seen a ghost?

So is this to say then that "there probably is a god" and "there probably is not a god" are equal?

"Probably" is your subconscience gving you an insurance plan just incase you are wrong. Saying it is improbable, is wording it as you are sure of yourself.

Is there "life" after death? Of course not or you wouldn't be dead.

Does information as energy require a physical body? No. Sound is a good example of information as energy without a body.

Here is the kicker. Information as energy can't go full circle unless that energy transmitted is recieved by something that can understand it. Which means information transmitted is eternal until received.

 

[ansutherland]

Ever seen a ghost?"Probably" is your subconscience gving you an insurance plan just incase you are wrong. Saying it is improbable, is wording it as you are sure of yourself.

Is there "life" after death? Of course not or you wouldn't be dead.

Does information as energy require a physical body? No. Sound is a good example of information as energy without a body.

Here is the kicker. Information as energy can't go full circle unless that energy transmitted is recieved by something that can understand it. Which means information transmitted is eternal until received.

I have never seen a ghost and it would prove nothing if I did. There is however plenty of evidence showing that the visual/mental aberations that are "ghosts" are at the very least sometimes the result of temporary or permanent mental impairment.

As for your energy talk, and your statement that sound is energy without a body, that is plain wrong. Sound is the occilation of particles at a specific frequency; those particles are matter, thus a body in the physical sense. As for the rest of what you say, I am not quantum physicist, but what I have seen is that many people will use the quirkiness of quantum mechanics to try and explain metaphysical claims which are not supported my the evidence they cite. "The Secret" is a great example of this.

 

[petros]

I have never seen a ghost and it would prove nothing if I did. There is however plenty of evidence showing that the visual/mental aberations that are "ghosts" are at the very least sometimes the result of temporary or permanent mental impairment.

As for your energy talk, and your statement that sound is energy without a body, that is plain wrong. Sound is the occilation of particles at a specific frequency; those particles are matter, thus a body in the physical sense. As for the rest of what you say, I am not quantum physicist, but what I have seen is that many people will use the quirkiness of quantum mechanics to try and explain metaphysical claims which are not supported my the evidence they cite. "The Secret" is a great example of this.

Sound is a wave that manipulates particles to transfer information. The wave passing through the particles (air) is what you hear and feel.

You aren't going to make me reveal something total outrageous and new like a radio are you? That would be two forms of information on the loose without a body at the same time.

Heavy huh?

 

[ansutherland]

Sound is a wave that manipulates particles to transfer information. The wave passing through the particles (air) is what you hear and feel.

You aren't going to make me reveal something total outrageous and new like a radio are you? That would be two forms of information on the loose without a body at the same time.

Heavy huh?

A mechanical wave requires a medium. Sound waves, coil shaped waves and Mechanical waves are a local oscillation of material. Only the energy propagates; the oscillating material does not move far from its initial equilibrium position; the wave travels by jumping from one particle of the medium to another. Therefore, mechanical waves transport energy and not material;
A mechanical wave requires an initial energy input to be created. Once this initial energy is added, the wave will travel through the medium until all the energy has been transferred (Mechanical wave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Like I said, it's nothing more that the oscillation of particles. The oscillation carries a kinetic energy that disrupts the particles around it, thus causing them to oscillate at the same frequency.

But how is any of this relevant to the idea that there may be a life after death and that the claim that there is contains no evidence?

Sound is a wave that manipulates particles to transfer information. The wave passing through the particles (air) is what you hear and feel.

You aren't going to make me reveal something total outrageous and new like a radio are you? That would be two forms of information on the loose without a body at the same time.

Heavy huh?

A radio wave is totally different that a sound wave in that it is not a mechanical wave. It is a form of radiation, thus it's limits of travel are not set to the speed of sound, rather the speed of light.

Sound is a wave that manipulates particles to transfer information. The wave passing through the particles (air) is what you hear and feel.

You aren't going to make me reveal something total outrageous and new like a radio are you? That would be two forms of information on the loose without a body at the same time.

Heavy huh?

Like I said though, the spiritualist will use the odity of quantum physics to bolster their beliefs even though they have to training in the field and no scientific expertise.

 

[petros]

You know what is even stranger yet? The echo of a radio playing in a concrete parking garage.

Now tell me again about how information as needs a physical body to exist.

Have you ever used a USB storage stick? How and what exactly is that information stored in? Is it possible or impossible for a compound to store your thoughts as energy? What about a ghost that lives inside a physical body? Technically if you exist today and your life energy was transfer to you from your mom and dad who got it from their moms and dads then all life has be a continuous passing of the torch since life took root on this planet. You've always been alive and living on earth and will always be living on this earth and potentially all other life supporting planets in the whole silly universe. That includes planets that don't even exist yet.

To say death is final is ridiculous.

If you start thinking of yourself as a spiritual being having a human experience rather than a human trying to have a spiritual experience you'd really enjoy life a lot more.

Only the energy propagates; the oscillating material does not move far from its initial equilibrium position

That is why I see a firework before I hear it? I hope I'm not unique.

Damn the photon torpedoes! Light as information is neither wave nor particle until it hits a receiver.

I'll race you around the sun and back.

 

[JLM]

I need not prove a thing. As there is not a shred of evidence for the claim that something happens when you die, my work is already done for me. It's not as though the two opposing claims are intellectually equal. The fact that there is no evidence rightly lends one to believe that nothing happens. Give me an example to the contrary.


So is this to say then that "there probably is a god" and "there probably is not a god" are equal? How can this be? To suggest they are equal is to have complete disregard for the evidence or lack of. One is stating that in spite of no evidence, the odds are there is a god, the other says that in light of there being no evidence, there is likely no god.

First of all I'm not sure there is evidence either way, but there are thousands of indications there is life after death.

 

[Unforgiven]

Ever seen a ghost?"Probably" is your subconscience gving you an insurance plan just incase you are wrong. Saying it is improbable, is wording it as you are sure of yourself.

To say otherwise would require proof. Improbable is a very good word here. Not definitive, yet leading to a conclusion of opinion.

Is there "life" after death? Of course not or you wouldn't be dead.

What is life?

Does information as energy require a physical body? No. Sound is a good example of information as energy without a body.

Oh I beg to differ. Sound needs some sort of medium to pass through or it doesn't work. Light passes through a vacuum but sound doesn't. You need some sort of body that is equipped to manage sound waves or it's not going to work.

Here is the kicker. Information as energy can't go full circle unless that energy transmitted is recieved by something that can understand it. Which means information transmitted is eternal until received.

Yeah but the moon is heavy. Neither have anything to do with the subject at hand though.

 

[dattaswami]

Why God has to come in human form?


If the spiritual knowledge is perfect and complete, the devotion and practice are the spontaneous subsequent steps for which there is no need of any effort. If the practice is perfect and complete, the fruit is spontaneous. Therefore, all the efforts should be put only to gain the perfect and complete spiritual knowledge. Hence, Shankara told that knowledge alone can achieve fruit (Jnanadevatu…). The perfect and complete spiritual knowledge is possible only from God. But God is unimaginable and therefore to give this perfect and complete knowledge, the unimaginable God comes down in human form.

For this purpose, which is most important, God will never enter inert medium. The human form means the soul or awareness associated with the human body. Whenever God enters this world the soul is always an associated medium with Him. You should not say that the soul or awareness alone is the associated medium. If you say like that, the soul exists in birds and animals also and these birds and animals cannot give the spiritual knowledge to humanity. Therefore, the soul should mean the soul existing in human body only.

 

[petros]

To say otherwise would require proof. Improbable is a very good word here. Not definitive, yet leading to a conclusion of opinion.



What is life?



Oh I beg to differ. Sound needs some sort of medium to pass through or it doesn't work. Light passes through a vacuum but sound doesn't. You need some sort of body that is equipped to manage sound waves or it's not going to work.



Yeah but the moon is heavy. Neither have anything to do with the subject at hand though.

Sound is still just a wave without ears and will travel over consider distance before reaching your ears That Doppler guy was onto something.

 

[dattaswami]

Proof for existence of unimaginable God beyond the boundary of space​

The boundary of the Universe need not be made of the same material (five elements). A metallic wheel may have a plastic ring around its edge. Therefore, the boundary of the Universe need not be made of the same imaginable material. The boundary is unimaginable means that the boundary is made of unimaginable material i.e., God. Even if you say that the diameter of the Universe is some billions of light years, is there a compound wall in the edge of the boundary? If there is such wall what is present beyond that wall? If you say that space is present beyond that wall, space is also a part of the Universe (one of the five elements). The theory of bending of the space around object proves that space is the most subtle energy. Therefore, the diameter of the Universe is infinite. The theory of constant expansion of Universe is also meaningless because expansion of any material requires the existence of space different from the material. When space or subtle energy is the basic material of the Universe, the word ‘expansion’ becomes ridiculous. The infinity of the Universe stands for the existence of unimaginable entity beyond the Universe existing from the boundary of Universe. Unless you accept the unimaginable region beyond the boundary of Universe, you cannot speak of the end of imaginable boundary of the Universe. All this discussion will clearly establish the existence of unimaginable region or God beyond the Universe.

 

[petros]

Life transmits photons.....

Proof for existence of unimaginable God beyond the boundary of space​

The boundary of the Universe need not be made of the same material (five elements). A metallic wheel may have a plastic ring around its edge. Therefore, the boundary of the Universe need not be made of the same imaginable material. The boundary is unimaginable means that the boundary is made of unimaginable material i.e., God. Even if you say that the diameter of the Universe is some billions of light years, is there a compound wall in the edge of the boundary? If there is such wall what is present beyond that wall? If you say that space is present beyond that wall, space is also a part of the Universe (one of the five elements). The theory of bending of the space around object proves that space is the most subtle energy. Therefore, the diameter of the Universe is infinite. The theory of constant expansion of Universe is also meaningless because expansion of any material requires the existence of space different from the material. When space or subtle energy is the basic material of the Universe, the word ‘expansion’ becomes ridiculous. The infinity of the Universe stands for the existence of unimaginable entity beyond the Universe existing from the boundary of Universe. Unless you accept the unimaginable region beyond the boundary of Universe, you cannot speak of the end of imaginable boundary of the Universe. All this discussion will clearly establish the existence of unimaginable region or God beyond the Universe.

Infintity will drive you insane...or perhaps it is infintity that defines sanity?

 

[Cliffy]

First of all I'm not sure there is evidence either way, but there are thousands of indications there is life after death.

I suppose we would have to define death. To me, death is only about the vehicle ceasing to function and breaking down into its base components. But what happens to the consciousness that collected all the data, that processed the data and stored it. Does that die or is it capable of ceasing to function. Where does all that data go? What was the point of collecting the data in the first place if it ceases to exist when the vehicle that collected it ceases to function?

Life, to me, is the biosphere, the medium that gives animation to the collection of beings that are the sum of its parts. We are like a cell of that living mass. That living mass has its own consciousness, which is beyond our finite minds to comprehend. But many people have had an experience of being connected to the all encompassing consciousness, of having ceased to exist as their body and ego, of becoming one with all there is. Some call it a spiritual experience. It really has nothing to do with gods or goddesses and everything to do with our connection to the greater whole of life. We are one with all that is.

The way I see it is that the tunnel of light that some say they have seen when they have a near death experience is the conduit that connects us to the life force of the biosphere, Mother Earth.

I think that what all the debate is about is not who is right or wrong but how we, as individuals, relate to life and its mysteries. I don't believe anybody is wrong, just that we each have a unique way of expressing our relationship to life. I would think that if the Universe has a consciousness (it being so far beyond our capacity to even imagine, but we call it god for convenience) it would want to have as much variety as possible in its experience so as to grow and learn. I think we are a microcosm of that process. Therefore, I conclude that there is no right or wrong way to view life, but that the variety of views is necessary for consciousness to expand infinitely.

There is no such thing as death, just energy constantly transforming and collecting data.

 

[JLM]

I suppose we would have to define death. To me, death is only about the vehicle ceasing to function and breaking down into its base components. But what happens to the consciousness that collected all the data, that processed the data and stored it. Does that die or is it capable of ceasing to function. Where does all that data go? What was the point of collecting the data in the first place if it ceases to exist when the vehicle that collected it ceases to function?

Life, to me, is the biosphere, the medium that gives animation to the collection of beings that are the sum of its parts. We are like a cell of that living mass. That living mass has its own consciousness, which is beyond our finite minds to comprehend. But many people have had an experience of being connected to the all encompassing consciousness, of having ceased to exist as their body and ego, of becoming one with all there is. Some call it a spiritual experience. It really has nothing to do with gods or goddesses and everything to do with our connection to the greater whole of life. We are one with all that is.

The way I see it is that the tunnel of light that some say they have seen when they have a near death experience is the conduit that connects us to the life force of the biosphere, Mother Earth.

I think that what all the debate is about is not who is right or wrong but how we, as individuals, relate to life and its mysteries. I don't believe anybody is wrong, just that we each have a unique way of expressing our relationship to life. I would think that if the Universe has a consciousness (it being so far beyond our capacity to even imagine, but we call it god for convenience) it would want to have as much variety as possible in its experience so as to grow and learn. I think we are a microcosm of that process. Therefore, I conclude that there is no right or wrong way to view life, but that the variety of views is necessary for consciousness to expand infinitely.

There is no such thing as death, just energy constantly transforming and collecting data.

Now you're making me f*****g think. :lol:

 

[Cliffy]

Now you're making me f*****g think. :lol:

Is that dangerous?

 

[Unforgiven]

Sound is still just a wave without ears and will travel over consider distance before reaching your ears That Doppler guy was onto something.

Yeah, but still that means nothing in context of this subject. You can feel waves as well. That doesn't change what death is.

Is that dangerous?

Improbable. :lol:

 

[JLM]

Is that dangerous?

It's only dangerous, Cliff, if after you've done thinking you think you know something. :lol: That f**ks a lot of people up. :lol:

 

[Cliffy]

It's only dangerous, Cliff, if after you've done thinking you think you know something. :lol: That f**ks a lot of people up. :lol:

What is thought if not a rudimentary attempt to make sense of the data collected thus far? But none of us can have all the data necessary to make an intelligent conclusion. At best we can just guess. So all what we think we know is nothing more than speculation about possibilities and probabilities. Nobody can have all the answers because our personal perspectives are so limited. Is there a god and is it possible to know what is god's will? Do we die and if so what happens after death? There is no way of knowing those answers, is there? Would an intelligence as vast as the universe be concerned with the mental masturbation of such a finite creature living on a tiny spec of dust floating around in it as a human? I doubt it. We are the Who that Horton hears. And Horton is just a creature who lives on a slightly bigger spec of dust.

 

[herald]

Unless you are born-again, you will never enter into the kingdom of God, and you will live eternally.

 

[lone wolf]

Unless you are born-again, you will never enter into the kingdom of God, and you will live eternally.

So if you're going to live eternally anyhow, why bother submitting to slavery?

 

[gerryh]

Unless you are born-again, you will never enter into the kingdom of God, and you will live eternally.

wrong