So what does happen when you die?

taxslave

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Not necessarily there Taxslave. Bible says "dust to dust, earth to earth, ashes to ashes". Guess it depends on whether or not you are "dirt" (earth to earth) or ashes. I'm not quite sure how the dust comes about. We are, in this case though, talking about the body. I think the OP wants to know about your soul.

No such thing.

I'm pretty sure one of the first things that will happen is we'll get the "report card" read to us. After that reincarnation is a possibility and makes sense.

My wife believes in reincarnation. According to here humans are not necessarily the top of the heap to aspire to though. But then she also does regressions. So far I haven't seen any real proof to make me change my mind even after having gone through a regression. But then I have also seen a few things that I can't explain, like a ghost ship.(no we were not imbibing of anything that night. we were all asleep on our boat)
 

JLM

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No such thing.



My wife believes in reincarnation. According to here humans are not necessarily the top of the heap to aspire to though. But then she also does regressions. So far I haven't seen any real proof to make me change my mind even after having gone through a regression. But then I have also seen a few things that I can't explain, like a ghost ship.(no we were not imbibing of anything that night. we were all asleep on our boat)

I think the natural trend and tendency is to progress, and dying (in the extreme definition of the word) goes against the trend.
 

Curiosity

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JLM

Your remark made about dying brought a response to me which I hadn't considered before.

The soul continues while the used - possibly worn out parts - the physical part and our memories of the life
spent - are cast off.

What remains is the seed of knowledge carried to the next journey by the soul - whether utilized or not.

Humans are but a beginning of knowledge - and are not equipped to understand all there is to know yet.

We spend our lives seeking knowledge, change, betterment, solution, replication of our species, improving
our lives and our habitats, overcoming and often conquering our diseases, but we still remain a slightly
lived package of less than one hundred years - much of which is wasted in self-satisfaction rather than
learning.

Most disappointing to me is we still kill one another of our species.

There is a long road still to travel - beyond our comprehension.
 

JLM

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JLM

Your remark made about dying brought a response to me which I hadn't considered before.

The soul continues while the used - possibly worn out parts - the physical part and our memories of the life
spent - are cast off.

What remains is the seed of knowledge carried to the next journey by the soul - whether utilized or not.

Humans are but a beginning of knowledge - and are not equipped to understand all there is to know yet.

We spend our lives seeking knowledge, change, betterment, solution, replication of our species, improving
our lives and our habitats, overcoming and often conquering our diseases, but we still remain a slightly
lived package of less than one hundred years - much of which is wasted in self-satisfaction rather than
learning.

Most disappointing to me is we still kill one another of our species.

There is a long road still to travel - beyond our comprehension.

I agree. :smile:
 

Radrook

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Barring an instant resurrection from the dead as promised in the Bible for Christ's followers,, my concept of death is a complete cessation of all sensory input.
 

Curiosity

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Barring an instant resurrection from the dead as promised in the Bible for Christ's followers,, my concept of death is a complete cessation of all sensory input.

Agreed but we were discussing the human "spirit" for want of a more appropriate word.

At least that is what I interpreted reincarnation to be - certainly not the body/spirit/mind which dwelt in the most recent incarnation.

Religious belief is but one segment of interpretation, however reincarnation may not be "pertinent to religious faith at all" - rather the progression of whatever lifeform is to follow in a biological or intellectual concept of learning and evolution.

If religion interprets a reason for mankind and its evolution throughout untold ages yet to come then I can
see where it would be an excellent exploration of ideals to learn and follow or break and discard.

I like to think as the journey of mankind to eventual perfection - practicing many evils, horrendous acts,
even loving in a possessive manner rather than seeking a partner with whom to explore and grow.
 

Dingus

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Oh, jeee. More Bible verse. There's real evidence for you. Never mind using then senses you have, use the ability to suppose.


Stuck on farts? ;)


It's bacterial activity. Dead things rot. That makes gas. That is reality. Anything else is ifs and maybes


Surely all of this thread is supposition or have I missed the point? Interesting discussion though.
 

s_lone

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Whether there is an afterlife or not, this is the life we are in right now and might as well make the best of it. We ought to live good lives towards ourselves and others, not in anticipation of afterlife rewards or punishments but simply because of plain mutual benefit. In other words, let's try to be happy and spread the feeling around while also caring for the happiness of future humans.

That being said, it is fun to speculate on the possibility of afterlife and these are my thoughts on the subject. I would be concise if I could but it's impossible due to the complexity of the matter. We are dealing with the nature of consciousness. This is heavy stuff and it's at the very core of what we experience as ''life''.

First of all, I think there is a problem when we objectify the ''soul''. What I mean is that those of us who do believe in afterlife tend to say that ''part of us'' will survive death, that we are more than just a body. But we are at a loss to explain how this ''part of us'' actually functions. What is a soul made of? Is it material? When it comes to this type of belief, you can't blame scientifically inclined people for being skeptical. As far as science understands it, consciousness arises out of brain activity. Once the brain shuts down, so does consciousness and all that comes with it (perceptions, thoughts, feelings, memories).

So the afterlife believers end up believing in a part of us that is either too subtle or complex for science to detect, but nonetheless concrete and real, OR the soul is viewed as something fundamentally immaterial in which case science cannot detect it because it only deals with concrete objective material reality which IS detectable. In that case, the world is divided in two,the material and the immaterial, which is a very platonic view of things.

From what I understand, this dual view of reality (material vs. immaterial) has dominated our spiritual culture for a good part of our history. In the middle ages, most people understood this world as being a mere shadow of God's kingdom, a testing ground where our souls were being challenged to become pure and ready for the ''real'' immaterial reality of Heaven... or Hell. Obviously, some people still think like that.

But then, something very different happened with the Enlightenment. Science slowly but surely rose out of mystical and religious beliefs and started viewing the surrounding material world as THE ultimate reality...

In a way, there was a complete reversal. At first, the reality of the soul was viewed as being the ultimate reality, with matter just being a shadow of the immaterial, and then science started viewing the material world as being the ultimate reality with the immaterial being a sub-manifestation of what was really real (thoughts arise out of brain activity and not the other way around)

This can be summarized as a subject-object duality. Science tries to deal with objective reality. It deals with things that you can call ''IT", that our senses can perceive or at least that a machine can detect.

The problem with this is that science tends to cast aside the whole subjective dimension of reality, the consciousness part. If I am watching the stars in a beautiful clear night sky and I start crying because I feel overwhelmed by such beauty, the best science can do is describe the brain wave activity that is parallel to my subjective experience. But it can't describe the feeling in scientific terms, because the feeling is not an object... it's a subjective state of affairs.

One of the main problems I have with science is that it usually seems to reduce all subjective experiences to its objective counterpart (brain activity), as if one was more real than the other. But I think this is a flawed view of reality. The way I understand it, consciousness is simply the brain viewed from the inside. Consciousness is what it feels like to be a brain (and the body that comes with it) and this subjective experience of being a brain is as real as the brain itself.

Subjective and objective reality are two sides of the same coin. Reality becomes distorted when you favour one side to the expense of the other. If someone is living through a depression caused by a chemical brain imbalance, it makes sense to treat the depression with medication. But if a depression has as its root complex and deep unresolved emotional issues, then it only makes sense to tackle this by untangling the emotional knots through a therapeutic process which deals with the subjective reality of the spirit. What I'm trying to show with this example is how both sides (subjective-objective) of reality are equally important and real.

What does this all mean in terms of consciousness and death? It means that consciousness IS the subjective part of reality. Consciousness is reality viewed from the inside while the objective world is reality viewed outside of consciousness.

Subject-Object
Inside-Outside

You can't have one without the other.

Science can't exist without the subjective experience of thinking. But thinking, at least in human terms, cannot happen without a human brain. It's a package deal.

That means that if consciousness survives human death, then it ceases to be human. Human consciousness functions through the brain and we can't escape that fact. Once the brain and body expire, so does human consciousness.

But the optimist side of this is that once you can view consciousness as simply being the interior dimension of reality (the subjective-inside part of it). Then one can start seeing how consciousness actually is a universal reality. It's everywhere because it's inherent in reality. ''Consciousness'' is the word we chose to describe how this reality manifests itself in human terms, but with a little imagination and an open mind, we can see how consciousness can actually be a spectrum and that it is a reality everywhere, in everything.

A tree is conscious. There is such a thing as the subjective experience of being a tree. It's just that we can't imagine it because we are not a tree. And one thing is for sure, tree consciousness is profoundly different than human consciousness. But to state that a tree has no subjective experience of being a tree is just plain human arrogance if you ask me. To say that consciousness is exclusive to humans is the spiritual equivalent of thinking that the Earth is at the center of the universe.

I see my own human subjective experience as a drop in an ocean of consciousness. When I die, I will simply dissolve in the bigger picture.

Nothing really ceases to be.

But everything changes.

(Most of this is deeply influenced by Ken Wilber, and American philosopher.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Wilber
 
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Curiosity

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S_lone

Thanks for introducing Wilber to the conversation - I struggled with the man (is he more than "man"?) when assigned classwork from his theories and found my stomach could not take him - so jealous was I that a human could fly through ideas and concepts and make sense of them seemed impossible for me....still does!

I am now shaking and although I still have to get through my work, I'll return and try to see how much
strength I can use to stay with what he has to share ...

He is one of those people "we all will have to get back to in the future unknown date".... maybe my Waterloo is now....

Truth is - he scares me. Thank you again - I think :)
 

Dexter Sinister

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That being said, it is fun to speculate on the possibility of afterlife...
Indeed it is. Good post my friend, deep and thoughtful, and it deserves a similarly deep and thoughtful response, but my real life is a little busy and I don't have time or energy for that right now, I'm off to visit relatives pretty soon. But I will be back to respond to that post as it deserves. Not tomorrow, maybe not this week, but I WILL come back. But in the meantime ponder on this: I disagree with almost everything you said. :)
 

L Gilbert

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Barring an instant resurrection from the dead as promised in the Bible for Christ's followers,, my concept of death is a complete cessation of all sensory input.
:roll: The input's there. The reaction to it is nonexistent. Or did you mean sensory activity?

Surely all of this thread is supposition or have I missed the point? Interesting discussion though.
You must have missed the last line of her post:
"Anything else is ifs and maybes", which describes supposition.
 

eanassir

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Why the afterlife is invisible


God – be glorified – made the afterlife invisible: including the spirits, souls, angels, devils and the other part of the spiritual ethereal world.

If God makes the afterlife visible with all its components, then all people will believe.

[If God makes all believers rich and all disbelievers poor --> then all people will believe.
If He makes all disbelievers rich and all believers poor --> then all people will disbelieve.
If God punishes the disbeliever immediately --> then all people will believe.

And if so then the examination and checking will be useless; because man should believe of his own accord and choose his way freely.]

In the same way He made Satan invisible to suggest to people: to see who will follow his suggestions and disbelieve in the afterlife, and who will not listen to Satan's suggestion and believe in the spiritual world of the afterlife.

Here are the ayat 34: 20-21 concerning a disbelieving people who were punished in the past after they disbelieved and followed Satan and his suggestions and disbelieved in the afterlife (most of them disbelieved.)


وَلَقَدْ صَدَّقَ عَلَيْهِمْ إِبْلِيسُ ظَنَّهُ فَاتَّبَعُوهُ إِلَّا فَرِيقًا مِّنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ . وَمَا كَانَ لَهُ عَلَيْهِم مِّن سُلْطَانٍ إِلَّا لِنَعْلَمَ مَن يُؤْمِنُ بِالْآخِرَةِ مِمَّنْ هُوَ مِنْهَا فِي شَكٍّ وَرَبُّكَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ حَفِيظٌ


The explanation:
(And Iblies [: Satan] indeed proved true his opinion concerning them [: he thought that he will deceive them, and then his thought proved true], for they followed him, [all] save a group of [true] believers.

Yet he [Satan] had no authority over them [: he only suggests to them, and does not compel them], but only that We would know [and distinguish] the one believing in the afterlife from the one doubting thereof; surely your Lord [O Mohammed] does observe all things.)


 

JLM

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Why the afterlife is invisible



God – be glorified – made the afterlife invisible: including the spirits, souls, angels, devils and the other part of the spiritual ethereal world.

If God makes the afterlife visible with all its components, then all people will believe.

[If God makes all believers rich and all disbelievers poor --> then all people will believe.
If He makes all disbelievers rich and all believers poor --> then all people will disbelieve.
If God punishes the disbeliever immediately --> then all people will believe.

And if so then the examination and checking will be useless; because man should believe of his own accord and choose his way freely.]

In the same way He made Satan invisible to suggest to people: to see who will follow his suggestions and disbelieve in the afterlife, and who will not listen to Satan's suggestion and believe in the spiritual world of the afterlife.

Here are the ayat 34: 20-21 concerning a disbelieving people who were punished in the past after they disbelieved and followed Satan and his suggestions and disbelieved in the afterlife (most of them disbelieved.)


وَلَقَدْ صَدَّقَ عَلَيْهِمْ إِبْلِيسُ ظَنَّهُ فَاتَّبَعُوهُ إِلَّا فَرِيقًا مِّنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ . وَمَا كَانَ لَهُ عَلَيْهِم مِّن سُلْطَانٍ إِلَّا لِنَعْلَمَ مَن يُؤْمِنُ بِالْآخِرَةِ مِمَّنْ هُوَ مِنْهَا فِي شَكٍّ وَرَبُّكَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ حَفِيظٌ


The explanation:
(And Iblies [: Satan] indeed proved true his opinion concerning them [: he thought that he will deceive them, and then his thought proved true], for they followed him, [all] save a group of [true] believers.

Yet he [Satan] had no authority over them [: he only suggests to them, and does not compel them], but only that We would know [and distinguish] the one believing in the afterlife from the one doubting thereof; surely your Lord [O Mohammed] does observe all things.)




Isn't it time you grew up and got over these fairy tales? I don't read hyerglyphics too good and don't know who does, so I translate hyerglyphics to say "delete" and file in the round container. :lol::lol::lol::lol:
 

Goober

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This is not a discussion about the necessity of religion and religon stands in the world today for better or for worse....

This is a thread about death and what comes after....
I'm just curious to know where people stand on this.....of what canadians are thinking across the country about life after death...

From my point of view....i don't think anything happens at all.....the is the one chance i got...(maybe i need to think this way to make the most out of it). I think the only chance I have to be immortal is to leave somthing behind with creation; my own creations. Now whether or not they are good or bad or worhty is not the point here (I think some of you have posted quite clearly your point of viws on my stuff....but again...this is not what this is about....

Also, it's clear i love myself, but not enough to want to keep it going after my body shuts down....the idea of my soul going on and on and on for eternity would drive me nuts....

So what do you believe.....

nothing at all
heaven and hell
reincarnation
do you become a ghost and witness your what happens without you

anything goes....i guess, because know one really knows...

I know this can be a touchy subject so i will ask everyone to be considerate and respectful about their comments.....


Well I know of a few things that will happen when I die, that is if i go before my wife

Wife gets Big Check
Daughter gets check
Trust fund for my Grandchildren

Me well then the adventure begins.
 

Spade

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For Woden, the Norse, Anglo Saxons, and a few other Germanic tribes were the chosen people. For others, well, sh1t happens! It's similar to Chistianity and others in that respect.
 

Goober

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For Woden, the Norse, Anglo Saxons, and a few other Germanic tribes were the chosen people. For others, well, sh1t happens! It's similar to Chistianity and others in that respect.
Well i guess i am covered - German in my ancestry