Sixth Annual Israeli Apartheid Week

[MHz]

Ok, in your utopia the powers that created the present situation would be held responsible for their actions. In reality, would you rather see peace pursued or have both sides accuse each other of "war crimes" and continue more of the same?

How can peace be the goal if accusations of 'un-peaceful activity' cannot be fully investigated? If there was a restriction of weapons to both sides then I would agree that peace is being sought, even if the 'combatants' have to be 'held-back' some what at least it is a level playing field. Right now Gaza and the West Bank are under all sorts of restrictions that far exceed just military supplies. It amounts to the same conditions that were deemed war-crimes.

Monetary compensation is a start, the 33 Nations owe them about 33 trillion so far, tiime to pay up and hope they don't buy more than a fully loaded few aircraft carriers.

 

[Goober]

It must be pretty black and white in your universe if you truly believe that anyone who opposes Israel's cruelty, is racist and supports Israel's adversaries. Personally I doubt you are that simplistic. Your post and others like them are just a futile attempt to smear Israel's critics with abhorrent labels in an effort to discredit them. Anyone capable of critical thought who reads my posts objectively can see through your slander.

For the record I condemn the war crimes committed by both sides in this conflict as well as Israel's crimes against humanity.

Now lets look at your record in this conflict.

You refuse to acknowledge war crimes or crimes against humanity, let alone condemn them because of who commits them. You have never expressed a single bit outrage, let alone sympathy for the suffering and oppression of millions of people, because of who they are.

Being called a racist by someone as cruel and callous as you is a pretty rich in an odious way.

Back on topic, I'd like to post this recent statement by the South African Chief Director for Public Diplomacy as expert testimony:

Not it is not black and white at all. i have condemned Isreali War Crimes - look up the thread where a Canadian Major was killed -

Read my other posts.

For the record you have stated:

I do not believe that the world Media is some sort of Jews Cabal - You do

I do not believe that the Israeli's have a Final Solution - Genocide for the Palestinians - You do

I believe that Hamas would kill as many Jews as possible - You doubt that - I do not

I believe that Hezbollah would kill as many Jews as possible - You doubt that - I do not

I believe that hate for the existence of Jews is taught in Gaza and the West Bank - You doubt that - I do not.


Your Words-
"Anyone capable of critical thought who reads my posts objectively can see through your slander."

No, I am not slandering you - I use your words and statements - You would not know objectivity if it jumped up and bit you on your Arse.

I believe that you are a racist and a simplistic moron, a waste of skin. A mouth breather. A waste of earth's finite resources.

I believe that you should not be allowed to procreate -

I also believe that a sock puppet is your best and most loved friend and dearly in need of a good washing.

Just some of what I believe

 

[MHz]

This is why it won't end until a third party forces them to end it.

LOL, we covered this 'rent thing' some time back.

Perhaps all those out of work Lawyers that fought on the side of the people in the People vs Crown could find work at the UN as 'advisors' to define (check for treaty double-speak)any proposed peace agreements that Israel (or whatever Nation) tries to get the Palestinians to sign.

What is it called when steps are taken to ensure Jews remain a majority. Even marriage won't allow a Palestinian woman to become an Israeli citizen.

 

[earth_as_one]

No, it's called the mid east news fatigue. I have got to the point where I don't care what people do to each other over there. They need to work out their issues with gun, bombs, pens whatever, it's not an issue the UN will ever fix.

If you want to make this about my supposed ignorance. By all means. 8O

I understand your point. Middle East news fatigue is a problem. However, you can't say Canada's news has been saturated with stories about Israeli war crimes, crimes against humanity or references to the Goldstone report, since these stories go mostly unreported.

As you said, you never read the Goldstone report and I won't criticize anyone for being honest. I can only suggest you read the report for balance and in order to judge this conflict based on all the facts, not just the ones which saturate our news media.
United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza conflict

What most Canadians know about this report is that it has been criticized by the Israeli, American and Canadian governments. That alone should pique your curiosity. Also, what is not reported is that this report is now widely accepted internationally as the facts supported by evidence.

Another issue closer to home, which should concern all Canadians are attempts by Canadian governments to criminalize criticism of Israel under the guise of anti-Semitic related hate crimes:

Parliament to vote on Tory motion against free speech
By Corvin Russell
March 1, 2010

This year marks the sixth anniversary of Israeli Apartheid Week. Started as a small event at the University of Toronto, the annual week of educational events has grown to include over 40 cities around the world, and has played a major role in building a global anti-apartheid movement. As a result of its success, some university administrations in Ontario have stepped up repression of student activists who organize IAW. They have attempted to deny room bookings for the event and ban student activists from displaying posters, or even from using the words "Israel" and "apartheid" together.

In political and media spheres, a coordinated strategy of McCarthyism now attempts to shut down all criticism of Israel's violent, racist regime by branding such criticism as anti-semitic. At the federal level, a self-appointed pseudo-parliamentary inquisition composed of pro-Israel MPs, called the "Canadian Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism", has been staging a charade of public hearings as a prelude to the issuance of its foredrawn conclusion: namely that factual criticism of Israel's human rights record and violations of international law - including many UN resolutions; the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid; and the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, which makes apartheid a crime under international law - is a form of anti-semitism.

This past week in the Ontario Legislature, Conservative MPP Peter Shurman tabled a motion to condemn Israeli Apartheid Week, arguing that it constitutes something "close to hate speech":

In a rare show of unanimity, Ontario MPPs of all political stripes have banded together to condemn "Israeli Apartheid Week."

Progressive Conservative MPP Peter Shurman (Thornhill) tabled the motion Thursday to denounce the sixth annual provocative campus event that kicks off next week at universities and colleges in 35 cities around the world.

While Shurman's motion is not a surprise to anyone familiar with his longstanding opposition to Palestine solidarity activism, he gained support from an unlikely source: the NDP's Cheri DiNovo, MPP for Parkdale-High Park, who was among the 30 MPPs (out of a total of 107) present for the voice vote.

This week, federal Conservative Tim Uppal, MP for Edmonton-Strathcona Park, will seek unanimous support from federal MPs for a similar attack on free speech rights. Uppal will be proposing the following motion:

That this House considers itself to be a friend of the State of Israel; that this House is concerned about expressions of anti-Semitism under the guise of "Israeli Apartheid Week"; and that this House explicitly condemns any action in Canada as well as internationally that would equate the State of Israel with the rejected and racist policy of apartheid.

While this motion would have no legal effect, it will lend power to the campaign of McCarthyism on the issue. Whether or not you agree with the appropriateness of the term apartheid in describing Israel, it is hard to disagree that a reasonable debate can be had about it. After all, South Africans must know a thing or two about apartheid, and South Africa's Congress of Trades Unions; the South African Human Sciences Resaarch Council; leaders of the anti-apartheid struggle like Desmond Tutu and Ronnie Kasrils; and the racist architect of South African apartheid, prime minster Hendrik Verwoerd, all agree: Israel is an apartheid state. A former Israeli Education Minister and former Prime Minister Ehud Barak also agree. It is, at the very least, a reasonable subject of debate. And only in Canada is our right to freely debate it called into question at the highest levels of political power. Nowhere else in the world. Not in the United States, not in Israel, not in Europe. Only in Canada.

It's time to name this growing threat to democracy for what it is.
Parliament to vote on Tory motion against free speech | rabble.ca

I suggest you read the report and decide for yourself if referencing the report or Israel's war crimes and crimes against humanity as detailed by the report should be considered a hate crime in Canada.

I also invite well known Israeli apologists on this forum to express their opinions regarding the Canadian government's push to criminalize criticism of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity.

 

[Goober]

While this motion would have no legal effect, it will lend power to the campaign of McCarthyism on the issue. Whether or not you agree with the appropriateness of the term apartheid in describing Israel, it is hard to disagree that a reasonable debate can be had about it. After all, South Africans must know a thing or two about apartheid, and South Africa's Congress of Trades Unions; the South African Human Sciences Resaarch Council; leaders of the anti-apartheid struggle like Desmond Tutu and Ronnie Kasrils; and the racist architect of South African apartheid, prime minster Hendrik Verwoerd, all agree: Israel is an apartheid state. A former Israeli Education Minister and former Prime Minister Ehud Barak also agree. It is, at the very least, a reasonable subject of debate. And only in Canada is our right to freely debate it called into question at the highest levels of political power. Nowhere else in the world. Not in the United States, not in Israel, not in Europe. Only in Canada.


How many support Mugabe - and the President of Sudan - Please exclude Desmond as I am not referring to him
What has SA Govt Policy been towards these 2 murderous and 1 Genocidal regimes

Or is this another hard question - -

 

[earth_as_one]

Not it is not black and white at all. i have condemned Isreali War Crimes - look up the thread where a Canadian Major was killed...

...I believe that you are a racist and a simplistic moron, a waste of skin. A mouth breather. A waste of earth's finite resources.

I believe that you should not be allowed to procreate -

I also believe that a sock puppet is your best and most loved friend and dearly in need of a good washing....

Goober,

I already responded to your attempts to bait me and turn this thread into meaningless name calling. I intend to ignore hate inspired posts which when directed at me probably violate rules.

By using this service you agree:

1. Not to post any material that you know, or in our judgment ought to know, is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of personal privacy, or in violation of Canadian law;
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/introductions/announcements.html

Also Goober references this incident, which was an active topic around the time he first joined CC several years ago.

UN officer reported Israeli war crimes before deadly bombing: widow

Last Updated: Wednesday, February 6, 2008 | 10:03 PM ET

CBC News


A United Nations military observer sent e-mails home to Canada reporting that Israel was bombing schools and waging "a campaign of terror against the Lebanese people" shortly before he was killed by an Israeli bomb in Lebanon, said his widow.
Maj. Paeta Hess-von Kruedener of Kingston, Ont., a member of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, was one of four UN military observers who died when the Israeli Defence Forces bombed a marked United Nations post on July 25, 2006.

Cynthia Hess-von Kruedener said she believes her husband, Paeta, and three other UN observers were specifically targeted when their post was bombed by Israel.
(Submitted by Cynthia Hess-von Kruedener) ​

Cynthia Hess-von Kruedener said her husband's mission was to report on the hostilities in the area and she believes that is why Israeli forces attacked the Israeli United Nations Truce Supervision Organization (UNTSO) post, despite Israel's claims that the bombing was accidental.


"Obviously they were unhappy with what they were observing. Maybe that post was in the way as well," she said. "I know my husband was reporting war crimes. And I guess they don't want to deal with that."....


Read more:
CBC News - Ottawa - UN officer reported Israeli war crimes before deadly bombing: widow

I don't recall Goober actually condemning it, but he may have.

>>>>

Goober,

If you want a fact based debate on this topic, then first prove you are aware of the facts.

1) Read the Goldstone report.

2) Either condemn specific Israeli actions as war crimes as I condemned specific Palestinian actions war crimes, or reference specific Israeli war crime or crime against humanity incidents detailed in the report and explain why you feel they are or are not war crimes.

Here is a partial list of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity you can either condemn, justify or claim didn't happen:

1) Use of Chemical Weapons against civilians
2) Attacking hospitals, ambulances, doctors, medics...
3) Use of civilians including children as human shields
4) Blocking food and medicine from reaching hungry and sick people
5) Shooting unarmed civilians carrying the white flag of truce
6) Directing civilians to take cover in a building then bombing the building
7) Preventing emergency workers from reaching and evacuating injured and dying civilians
8) Shooting up UN aid convoys
9) Deliberately killing civilians and destroying civilian targets.
10) Deliberately attacking UN buildings including shelters and aid warehouses.
and so on...

You can find the details about the specific incidents in the Goldstone report here:
United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza conflict

I doubt you will actually read the Goldstone report, because you don't care about the suffering of millions of fellow human beings and you aren't interested in the facts. Your posts indicate you support Israel regardless of their war crimes and crimes against humanity and nothing will change your mind. Your posts indicate that you are more interested in diverting people's attention from facts which portray Israel negatively. I doubt you have the level of objectivity required to address the contents of the Goldstone report directly. Instead I predict more juvenile name calling and diversions.

 

[ironsides]

Surely you aren't trying to indicated there is a 'wedge' between the US and Israel over this incident about the land grab in Jerusalem?

Not at all, just between them and Obama and sidekick. He won't change anything for fear of his career, plus he has enough problems.

 

[ironsides]

I doubt you will actually read the Goldstone report, because you don't care about the suffering of millions of fellow human beings and you aren't interested in the facts. Your posts indicate you support Israel regardless of their war crimes and crimes against humanity and nothing will change your mind. Your posts indicate that you are more interested in diverting people's attention from facts which portray Israel negatively. I doubt you have the level of objectivity required to address the contents of the Goldstone report directly. Instead I predict more juvenile name calling and diversions.

For the record, I read the report. Here are a few other site you forgot to mention.

Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman on Thursday called the UN-sponsored Goldstone Commission’s conclusion that Israel committed war crimes during operation Cast Lead “pre-determined.” albawaba.com middle east news information::Lieberman: Goldstone findings ‘pre-determined’


Finance Minister: UN backing of Goldstone report is `anti-Semitic` - Haaretz - Israel News


New Info Undermines Report's Credibility - Inside Israel - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com


'U.S. to stand by Israel in the fight against Goldstone report' - Haaretz - Israel News

 

[earth_as_one]

...How many support Mugabe - and the President of Sudan - Please exclude Desmond as I am not referring to him
What has SA Govt Policy been towards these 2 murderous and 1 Genocidal regimes

Or is this another hard question - -

I think your post is yet another diversion. Tell you what. If you start a new thread explaining why you support war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by the Mugabe and the President of Sudan, I'll contribute posts which explain why I oppose them.

If your post was an attempt to discredit the South African government, then let me stop you. South Africans know a thing or two about what is and isn't Apartheid. While their government isn't perfect and has many problems, they have a proven ability to recognize, condemn and end Apartheid peacefully. Israel and the world could learn much from South Africa's accomplishments.

 

[earth_as_one]

For the record, I read the report.... http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1122612.html

I doubt you read the report or actually know more about the report than the links you referenced.

But prove me wrong. Actually quote a paragraph or two from the report regarding a specific incident which supports Goldstone's assertion that Israel committed war crimes and crimes against humanity by referencing its page number. Explain why you believe this incident is or is not a war crime or crime against humanity or didn't happen.

This would be pretty easy to do for anyone who actually read the report.

 

[earth_as_one]

BTW, take your time as I have to leave and probably won't be able to respond until later in the week. Work before play... But I will come back to this thread and if people make a legitimate effort to debate this topic in a civil manner, I will respond to the best of my ability as time permits...

 

[ironsides]

I have read to much about the unfounded false reporting conducted and written only to find fault with Israel. It is the supporters of this story who have to prove the unequivocal truth in the Goldstone report, not us who doubt it. We have that proof.

Understanding the Goldstone report

The report violates international standards for inquries, including UN rules on fact-finding, replicating earlier UNHRC biased statements.
The Commission systematically favored witnesses and evidence put forward by anti-Israel advocates, and dismissed evidence and testimony that would undermine its case.
The commission relied extensively on mediating agencies, especially UN and NGOs, which have a documented hostility to Israel; the report reproduces earlier reports and claims from these agencies.
At the same time, the Commission inexplicably downplayed or ignored substantial evidence of Hamas’ commission of war crimes, crimes against humanity and crimes of terror, including specifically its victimization of the Palestinian population by its use of human shields, civilian dress for combatants, and combat use of protected objects like ambulances, hospitals and mosques.
The Commission openly denies a presumption of innocence to the Israelis accused of crimes (while honoring Hamas’ presumed innocence) and acknowledges that it made accusations of crimes without proof that would stand up in court.
The report contains numerous gratuitous digressions into issues beyond the purview of a fact-finding commission that are inaccurate and profoundly hostile to Israel and Jews.
The Commission distorted legal standards, imposing on Israel standards that reverse their generally understood and applied meaning, while ignoring important rules of international law that put the onus of responsibility on an organization as base, by Goldstone’s own standards, as Hamas.


http://www.thegoldstonereport.com/

 

[MHz]

I have read to much about the unfounded false reporting conducted and written only to find fault with Israel. It is the supporters of this story who have to prove the unequivocal truth in the Goldstone report, not us who doubt it. We have that proof.

That is the duty of the Courts to sort out the facts from the fiction, if you are so sure that Israel is faultless then a trial should cause you (and their other supports of operation cast lead) no concern. They have been screaming 'unfair' ever since the report came out. If they don't like 'reports' don't kill 1400 people.

"especially UN and NGOs, which have a documented hostility to Israel;"
For the number of UN troops that Israel has killed over the years how many IDF have been killed by UN troops? Perhaps Israel quit targeting everything painted as belonging to the UN. Why does that solution never make it to the top of thier list on how to get along with others. lol

 

[Goober]

That is the duty of the Courts to sort out the facts from the fiction, if you are so sure that Israel is faultless then a trial should cause you (and their other supports of operation cast lead) no concern. They have been screaming 'unfair' ever since the report came out. If they don't like 'reports' don't kill 1400 people.

"especially UN and NGOs, which have a documented hostility to Israel;"
For the number of UN troops that Israel has killed over the years how many IDF have been killed by UN troops? Perhaps Israel quit targeting everything painted as belonging to the UN. Why does that solution never make it to the top of thier list on how to get along with others. lol

How about Hamas turning over to the Court the peroson/s that have killed isreali civilians - children -

 

[Goober]

I think your post is yet another diversion. Tell you what. If you start a new thread explaining why you support war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by the Mugabe and the President of Sudan, I'll contribute posts which explain why I oppose them.

If your post was an attempt to discredit the South African government, then let me stop you. South Africans know a thing or two about what is and isn't Apartheid. While their government isn't perfect and has many problems, they have a proven ability to recognize, condemn and end Apartheid peacefully. Israel and the world could learn much from South Africa's accomplishments.

Yes they know a thing or 2 about Apartheid - They also know a thing or 2 about supporting mass murderers -

Just as you Poll questions are beyond disgust your suggestion about my starting such as thread about supporting War crimes - which I am against - clearly demonstrates what a simple minded fool you are.

 

[MHz]

How about Hamas turning over to the Court the peroson/s that have killed isreali civilians - children -

When have I ever indicated they shouldn't be there. How about one person for each civilian killed or made homeless etc since Nov,'47?

 

[Goober]

When have I ever indicated they shouldn't be there. How about one person for each civilian killed or made homeless etc since Nov,'47?

You have not - But you rarely mention them. And I mean rare like Unicorns rare.

 

[Goober]

Goober,

I already responded to your attempts to bait me and turn this thread into meaningless name calling. I intend to ignore hate inspired posts which when directed at me probably violate rules.



Also Goober references this incident, which was an active topic around the time he first joined CC several years ago.



I don't recall Goober actually condemning it, but he may have.

>>>>

Goober,

If you want a fact based debate on this topic, then first prove you are aware of the facts.

1) Read the Goldstone report.

2) Either condemn specific Israeli actions as war crimes as I condemned specific Palestinian actions war crimes, or reference specific Israeli war crime or crime against humanity incidents detailed in the report and explain why you feel they are or are not war crimes.

Here is a partial list of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity you can either condemn, justify or claim didn't happen:

1) Use of Chemical Weapons against civilians
2) Attacking hospitals, ambulances, doctors, medics...
3) Use of civilians including children as human shields
4) Blocking food and medicine from reaching hungry and sick people
5) Shooting unarmed civilians carrying the white flag of truce
6) Directing civilians to take cover in a building then bombing the building
7) Preventing emergency workers from reaching and evacuating injured and dying civilians
8) Shooting up UN aid convoys
9) Deliberately killing civilians and destroying civilian targets.
10) Deliberately attacking UN buildings including shelters and aid warehouses.
and so on...

You can find the details about the specific incidents in the Goldstone report here:
United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza conflict

I doubt you will actually read the Goldstone report, because you don't care about the suffering of millions of fellow human beings and you aren't interested in the facts. Your posts indicate you support Israel regardless of their war crimes and crimes against humanity and nothing will change your mind. Your posts indicate that you are more interested in diverting people's attention from facts which portray Israel negatively. I doubt you have the level of objectivity required to address the contents of the Goldstone report directly. Instead I predict more juvenile name calling and diversions.

Read thru that particular forum you lazy moron - and do not label me without proof - and you won't find it -

 

[Goober]

BearMy friend -

I sent a collection of posting to a highly respected Dr of Psychiatry and this is what he/she noted

EAO -
Analysis
Goober -

My apologies but I have dumbed this down - not for you but to protect my identity. Do not change anything as there is no possible way of tracing this to me.

Goober - I hope you do not mind but I had to run my diagnosis thru a program we use to detect suspected cases of plagiarism - You will recall that the last time I did a diagnosis the bugger managed to track me down due to the papers I have published -

Now I can deal with Racists, Anti Semites - But combine those traits in a Canada Post worker and as you recall it was nip and tuck for a while

I again appreciate that you have friends in both high and shall we say lower professions - They met with him and he literally peed and excreted at the same time - rare, shows lack of muscle control along with a few other deficiencies. But as you recall Govts do pay us to do this exact thing - Yes they pay well for reputable work - shall we say my Grandchildren's Great Grandchildren will be well looked after.

I have his posts and separated them from the written article upon which he seems fixated on posting continuously and ran them thru the program on numerous forums -

Not surprising he is a frequenter of other forums but on these forums he would post some what differently but uses what others have written and changes a word here and their and then posts on another forum using this as original thought - Lacking independent thought, not completely but substantially makes him highly reliant on others that agree with his limited viewpoint and so as they say he shops at his favourite stores -forums and threads that provide that critical independent thinking that he lacks - Demonstrates substantial linear thought process at its simplest - normally associated with those that are highly unorganized and unable to plan effectively - associates with like minded individuals - feels comfortable and not threatened - Unable to compete for junior level positions within the workplace as Non Linear thought is critical to success in career progression.

Could have originated with an overbearing Mother and Father who were not always there for him - Time and again how a child is raised is how they turn out in adulthood. It is not a village that raises a child it is a good Parenting. Always has been and always will be.

I have also noted a clear pattern of refusing to answer clear and concise questions - You have been quite hard on him at times but I went back to the first posts and I can see why but others have been shall we say more than polite. Regardless - Polite or not - Hard questions are not considered as they deviate from his limited thinking and he has no answers for these types of questions -

Again Linear Thought Process - Similar to being in a loop much akin to the movie Groundhog Day - His comments on Israel having a secret plan to perpetrate Genocide on the Palestinians is a cry for help possibly - or he has fallen so far into hate that it would takes years of therapy with no guarantee of success.

Again it clearly shows an inability to accept differing opinions - even when he is grossly in error he sticks to the party line and is a classic case of Group Think -

Having met and treated a number of these individuals over the years many common denominators come into play - He may have some or all -

As I stated this can be difficult to diagnose - but after perusing approx 1000 pages of posts I would categorically state that I am in the 75-85 % accuracy rate - for this type of diagnosis

Has difficulty holding long term employment - mostly positions where repetition and little creative thinking is required - Always hated his bosses - Supervisors and will state that he never had a good boss - that as we know is impossible - Insecure physically and sexually - Your Sock Puppet analogy was bang on - Pun intended - as emotional release is part of human nature - and sex is only one part but an important part of a good emotional balance.

Extremely uncomfortable at family gatherings - yes they can be stressful but mature adults find a way to get along -

Last but not least - Is he a Racist - Yes - Partly - But only Jews - Why they are his fixation I cannot explain without more information -

So Yes he qualifies as a racist but only against Jews - As was noted during WW2 many Jews went to extreme lengths to hide their religion - and for good reason -

He does somewhat like or tolerates Jews that agree with his positions - But he fits the criteria as a racist

 

[MHz]

That is because they are not globe-trotting assassins. Event take events from June of '08, ceasefire agreements in place, there is a marked difference in rockets coming out of Gaza yet Israel lived up to nothing it agreed to do. Then it blamed operation cast lead on incidents that happened after they made a night raid into Gaza that resulted in 5 deaths. A tunnel needs a place to come up , they could have destroyed it from that end (Israeli territory, if there even was one). No deaths to either side and very few rockets (same as unruly Israeli settlers) in Nov and Dec would have made that long planned operation a no-go.
The Hamas that opened fire on the Israeli troops that night in Nov 08 were not doing anything 'wrong' Israel was in the wrong spot. Agree to that and I might hold out hope for you being 'impartial'.