Should Quebec separate from Canada?

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
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Alberta
As I’ve said, I would combat any attempt to partition Canada.

I have no doubt that Canada would lament such a separation for centuries.

No it wouldn't. If the Kweebeckers decided to separate, the natives in northern Canada would separate from Kweebeck and rejoin Canada. There are three possibilities...

1 - Kweebeck realizes their mistake and returns to the fold

2 - Kweebeck is too stubborn and remains as a separate nation (good for Canada as we have the good parts anyway.

3 - Kweebeck gets angry and decides to fight (fighting the natives, the Canadian government and the US would not be wise). They get their ass handed to them and we all get over it.

Realistically, the Kweebeck separatists know that separating will get them nowhere. It will never happen...unfortunately.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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That's a little hard to do when most in English Canada can't speak French and most in French Canada can't speak English. I remember reading a story of a French-English bilingual US journalist in Montreal. He'd invited some local couples over for dinner. To his surprise, the dinner was very quiet, because he hadn't realised untl then that the English-speaking couple couldn't speak French, and the French-speaking couple couldn't speak English. It's hard to buid real unity when we can't even access our minds. It's like Espanol in the US.


That is what it used to be in the U.S. (back in the 1950's) Today you an go into a Spanish neighborhood and yes they speak Spanish among themselves, but most of them especially 40 and under crowd are bilingual. English is taught as the primary language in schools. (other languages are taught as electives) If someone who only speaks Spanish or Creole starts school, they are taught in both English and their native language, but soon only English.
 

jambo101

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2009
213
4
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Montreal
I wouldnt be too quick to say it would never happen,I see examples of the separatist sentiment on a daily basis,Our local newspaper The Messenger has just adopted a new policy=no English
Montreals mayoralty race has Louise Harel as the front runner and she's a total separatist
Montreals multi million dollar subway extentions go North,East and South unfortunately most of the English live on the west island.
My local grocery store clerk told me this is Quebec we dont speak English.
Looking for a job is a lesson in futility if you cant speak French well enough to confuse the interviewer into thinking you are French, and on it goes,any future election we have is basically between the Liberals and the separatists so sooner or later its going to happen.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Ironsides - that is what most of us would prefer. I don't know why anyone would think that if Quebecers separate, they get the land! The land belongs to Canada - a little like pension money etc.


Some of you are proud that your such a multicultural country. But unlike the U.S. you try and keep these distinct cultures, and there is the problem. You can be multicultural and still have a unified country. Just require everyone to learn one common language, have one common central goverment that can operate with its elected representatives without having to constantly having to get approval at the Provincial level. (that is what the elected officials are for) If Quebec secedes from Canada, it would get the land and could very well exist as its own entity probably with France as its closest ally. If the land is refused, there just might be a civil war, not nice.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
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Vancouver, BC
Re: Secession of Québec

Some of you are proud that your such a multicultural country. But unlike the U.S. you try and keep these distinct cultures, and there is the problem. You can be multicultural and still have a unified country. Just require everyone to learn one common language, have one common central goverment that can operate with its elected representatives without having to constantly having to get approval at the Provincial level. (that is what the elected officials are for) If Quebec secedes from Canada, it would get the land and could very well exist as its own entity probably with France as its closest ally. If the land is refused, there just might be a civil war, not nice.

Despite some provincial disagreements, I would argue that Canada is a very united nation. As for the criticism of the Canadian version of multiculturalism, I think our version is something to be applauded—the “mosaïc” method values the unique elements of each person’s culture and encourages them to be sustained, creating something altogether exciting. The “melting pot” method (as used by the United States of America), on the other hand, encourages an amalgamation.

The federal Government doesn’t need the consent or agreement of the provincial governments for day-to-day government operations—provincial consent is only needed under very particular circumstances during constitutional amendments, as is quite appropriate. It makes sense for a nation to safeguard its supreme law through amendment formulae that require agreement to be widespread.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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I know you keep telling the world just how great your system of multicultural/mosaïc is, yet it as the root of your inter Provincial petty jealousies. Why should Newfoundland be jealous of Alberta, and Alberta be jealous of BC etc. That does not happen in the U.S. anyway near the degree it happens up there, You have to be doing something wrong with how your handling it (multicultural/mosaïc). I know the French want to keep their language and culture. Somebody has to bend, or things will get out of hand again as they did a few years ago. What can both of you (English and French) do instead of ignoring it for this moment in time. Solve the problem now, it will only get worse?
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
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Real question should you all unite and become a real Canadian Nation?
That is a valid point. It won't happen, though. Canada is an amalgamation of different regions with people that prefer to be polemic.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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I know you keep telling the world just how great your system of multicultural/mosaïc is, yet it as the root of your inter Provincial petty jealousies. Why should Newfoundland be jealous of Alberta, and Alberta be jealous of BC etc. That does not happen in the U.S. anyway near the degree it happens up there, You have to be doing something wrong with how your handling it (multicultural/mosaïc). I know the French want to keep their language and culture. Somebody has to bend, or things will get out of hand again as they did a few years ago. What can both of you (English and French) do instead of ignoring it for this moment in time. Solve the problem now, it will only get worse?
It can't happen in the States because each state is pretty autonomous. In Canada, most of the power is "centralized". Most of the provinces get angry when something that ON & QC wants is foisted upon the ROC.
Quebec won't separate; it'd lose too much and people know it.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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It can't happen in the States because each state is pretty autonomous. In Canada, most of the power is "centralized". Most of the provinces get angry when something that ON & QC wants is foisted upon the ROC.
Quebec won't separate; it'd lose too much and people know it.



Is there anything that can be done to get rid of those radical (by radical I mean people have died because of them) separatists once and for all or atleast diminish their power as we did to the KKK?
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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Is there anything that can be done to get rid of those radical (by radical I mean people have died because of them) separatists once and for all or atleast diminish their power as we did to the KKK?
Not the way politics has been set up in Canada.
I think it is possible to separate, but they won't. The support just isn't there. Half wants to continue while half think about separation. So they whine periodically until Ottawa throws them a bone.
That is like almost being in a constant argument/debate. Oh well guess it is those long winter nights. :lol:
Pretty much. Unfortunately, the "founding fathers" of Canada apparently thought that British customs and traditions would be acceptable to all Canada. It was a pretty arrogant attitude. So it's been the basis of a lot of contention that pops up in various ways and times since confederation.
 

Lou Garu

Electoral Member
Sep 7, 2009
302
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Here
This my country, a nation OF nations, yes I am anglophonie' ,but I am encouraged by the increasing sophistication of the non - stop debate after having lived through the FLQ and the resultant mess.
Yes ,there are things unresolved , the historical context is not great, But I do believe that ,as a country , we will be stronger for it.

that is my 2 cents
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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This my country, a nation OF nations, yes I am anglophonie' ,but I am encouraged by the increasing sophistication of the non - stop debate after having lived through the FLQ and the resultant mess.
Yes ,there are things unresolved , the historical context is not great, But I do believe that ,as a country , we will be stronger for it.

that is my 2 cents
Maybe eventually, but as far as I can see, the Anglo-Franco thing's been going on for decades of decades, so it isn't likely to be solved anytime soon. Especially if politics is involved.
 

Lou Garu

Electoral Member
Sep 7, 2009
302
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Here
Maybe eventually, but as far as I can see, the Anglo-Franco thing's been going on for decades of decades, so it isn't likely to be solved anytime soon. Especially if politics is involved.


Yes , AnnaG , I think the same.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
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Nakusp, BC
Driver wouldn't give him the time of day - in English

Stories like this one dont give me confidence in a Quebec thats happy to stay in Canada,yes just one little incident but the attitude is pervasive throughout Quebec.

If you had been crapped on for 2 - 3 hundred years, you might take a few decades to get over it. And you wonder why the French and aboriginals have a hard time with their Englais "lords and masters"!
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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It can't happen in the States because each state is pretty autonomous. In Canada, most of the power is "centralized". Most of the provinces get angry when something that ON & QC wants is foisted upon the ROC.
Quebec won't separate; it'd lose too much and people know it.

The states aren't that autonomous. Federal Law trumps State Law. Federal Judges trump State Judges. That was pretty much taken care of during the Civil War.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Some of you are proud that your such a multicultural country. But unlike the U.S. you try and keep these distinct cultures, and there is the problem. You can be multicultural and still have a unified country. Just require everyone to learn one common language

Hey, Ithink we can all see the benefit of a common language. The problem though comes in choosing one. Do the francophones learn English? Do the Anglophones learn French? Or do they all just learn a common second-language? And how fair is all this debate to the First Nations?

Again, we can all agree that a common language would be to our advantage. The trick is to agree to one.

have one common central goverment that can operate with its elected representatives without having to constantly having to get approval at the Provincial level.

I could agree with a central government with power to override provincial decisions as long as we have a decentralized system none-the-less, though I do think the federal government could be more involved in establishing certain educational principles, leaving the details to provincial governments.

what the elected officials are for) If Quebec secedes from Canada, it would get the land and could very well exist as its own entity probably with France as its closest ally.

I don't know if 'ally' is the right word. French-Quebecers and Frenchmen recognize a common linguistic culture, and that certainly helps (culturally, they're closer than Quebec is to the rest of Canada already). If you watch TV in Quebec's solidly francophone regions, you'll have French and Belgian channels. In Quebec City, it's easier to find copies of Paris Match and Le Monde Diplomatique than of Macleans or the Globe and Mail or the National Post; you'll see more foreign students from France, belgium, and French Africa in Quebec Universities than even English-Canadian compatriots; Quebec and French authors are read on either side of the Atlantic while English Canadians have never even heard of them (and likewise with English Canadian authors being more read in the US than in Quebec), and immigrants and refugees come from French Europe, Francohone Africa, and Haiti, etc. Even Quebec's international NGOs are more likely to interact with their French counterparts than with their English-Canadian counterparts.

I wouldn't say they'd just be 'allies', but rather 'brethren' with relations as close as we find between English-speaking countries, with regards to publications, culture, music, TV, immigration, international marriages, etc. It's much deeper than just 'allies'.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
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The states aren't that autonomous. Federal Law trumps State Law. Federal Judges trump State Judges. That was pretty much taken care of during the Civil War.

I actlly agree with this and think that's how it ought to be; the higher level of government should always trump the lower one. However, I also beleive the higher level should try to decentralise to the lower level as much as possible, with the higher one focussing more on basic principles to establish, and the lower ones implementing it according to lcoal exigencies.
 

Lou Garu

Electoral Member
Sep 7, 2009
302
4
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Here
Hey, Ithink we can all see the benefit of a common language. The problem though comes in choosing one. Do the francophones learn English? Do the Anglophones learn French? Or do they all just learn a common second-language? And how fair is all this debate to the First Nations?

Again, we can all agree that a common language would be to our advantage. The trick is to agree to one.

No matter how they do that,Machjo,one group will get p.o.'d
Better they p.o. everyone by enforcing a really different language.
Latin perhaps
or Esperanto